Originally posted by Golgo13
Those attack will work IF he can do so before Zoom attacks. We know Surfer can do this, but can he do it to someone as fast as Zoom? Who made Wally and Barry look like fools.
If Surfer can take a prolonged beat down from UniLord or T&A, he can handle Zoom pouring it on for more than long enough to mount a counter.
And this is assuming Surfer doesn't have the reflexes and speed to immediately counter Zoom...
Originally posted by janus77Again, these may be viable options IF Surfer is able to a.) target Zoom at all, and b.) do so before Zoom blitzes-- the latter being unlikely. At any rate, the aforementioned attacks would definitely put Zoom down IF they were successful.
I don't see how speed makes a difference when it comes to soul/lifeforce attacks. Surfer used it as a last resort against Lunatik, but he's now more ruthless and so more likely to use it before exhausting other, conventional, avenues.Also, Surfer's never had an issue with "speedsters" as far as Marvel goes, who's to say that Runner wasn't faster than Flash? Given that speed and "running" was the sole focus of his life.
Anyway, better to disagree and leave it at that.
There is not a single character in Marvel with battle speed feats on par with Wally or Barry-- let alone Zoom. Thus I can say, with confidence, that Zoom's battle speed is vastly beyond Surfer's, given that it is vastly beyond Wally and Barry's.
Yeah, that is likely the best thing to do at this point. Neither side is going to budge.
Originally posted by Galan007
Again: Zoom's blitzing may damage Surfer, and it may not. Even if it doesn't, Surfer still isn't touching Zoom. That's why a stalemate seems most logical to me.Additionally, durability to energy attacks=/=durability to physical attacks.
I will have to disagree here. This will not be a stalemate. In fact, it'll be a stomp for one side or the other.
Basically, this fight breaks down to a single question:
Will Zoom be able to take down the Surfer via a blitz before Surfer goes airborne?
If he takes down Surfer in the initial blitz, then he wins (duh). If not, Surfer wins. It's that simple.
This is because, once airborne, Zoom's options disappear (as he has no on panel "showings" of flight) and Surfer gets all the time in the world to basically win the fight. Any kind of lull in the battle would be at the Surfer's advantage as it gives him the time to analyze the situation and come up with counter-strategies. And with Surfer's powerset, his options are pretty much nigh infinite.
One easy path to victory is the use of an omniblast, if the first ominblast isn't hitting Zoom, then Surfer expands it. If that misses, then he expands it again. On and on until Zoom runs out of space to run. All the while, while airborn, there isn't really much Zoom can do to Surfer (who, in flight, is pretty damned fast and maneuverable himself).
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I will have to disagree here. This will not be a stalemate. In fact, it'll be a stomp for one side or the other.Basically, this fight breaks down to a single question:
Will Zoom be able to blitz Surfer before Surfer goes airborne?
If he takes down Surfer in the initial blitz, then he wins (duh). If not, Surfer wins. It's that simple.
This is because, once airborne, Zoom's options disappear (as he has no on panel "showings" of flight) and Surfer gets all the time in the world to basically win the fight. Any kind of lull in the battle would be at the Surfer's advantage as it gives him the time to analyze the situation and come up with counter-strategies. And with Surfer's powerset, his options are pretty much nigh infinite.
One easy path to victory is the use of an omniblast, if the first ominblast isn't hitting Zoom, then Surfer expands it. If that misses, then he expands it again. On and on until Zoom runs out of space to run. All the while, while airborn, there isn't really much Zoom can do to Surfer (who, in flight, is pretty damned fast and maneuverable himself).
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I don't think it's a question of will he be able to blitz Surfer, I think Zoom can. I just don't think he can produce a blitz strong enough to fully take out a Surfer who knows he is in a fight before a counterattack is given.
That's what I said! 😛
"If he takes down Surfer in the initial blitz?"
Tho, I think my question was worded poorly. Will edit now. 😮
Originally posted by Galan007It's even less 'in character' for Professor Zoom to start running around on thin air since nobody's even posted or referenced a single time he's ever done so. This thread does not specify "imaginary makeup feats," after all.
Given that Surfer has existed as a character for 40+ years and battled hundreds of [powerful] opponents, the fact that he has only destroyed a planet twice in his history implies that it is certainly not an 'in character' tactic for him. This thread does not specify "no CIS", after all.It's a tool in his toolbox, sure-- just not one he's likely to use right out of the gate, imo.
Taking advantage of one's airborne mobility against a grounded opponent isn't exactly a stretch for Surfer based on his 40+ years history. Nor is it surprising to anyone whose ever read a Flash comic. Surfer one-upping that airborne advantage by disrupting the battlefield is simply added flavor. And the scale with which he can destroy a battlefield was just being driven home by the references to planet-busting.
And that is still more relevant that Professor Zoom's unproven ability (so far) to run around on thin air.
Originally posted by NibedicusAirborne or not, Surfer isn't touching Zoom, hence stalemate.
I will have to disagree here. This will not be a stalemate. In fact, it'll be a stomp for one side or the other.Basically, this fight breaks down to a single question:
Will Zoom be able to blitz Surfer before Surfer goes airborne?
If he takes down Surfer in the initial blitz, then he wins (duh). If not, Surfer wins. It's that simple.
This is because, once airborne, Zoom's options disappear (as he has no on panel "showings" of flight) and Surfer gets all the time in the world to basically win the fight. Any kind of lull in the battle would be at the Surfer's advantage as it gives him the time to analyze the situation and come up with counter-strategies. And with Surfer's powerset, his options are pretty much nigh infinite.
One easy path to victory is the use of an omniblast, if the first ominblast isn't hitting Zoom, then Surfer expands it. If that misses, then he expands it again. On and on until Zoom runs out of space to run. All the while, while airborn, there isn't really much Zoom can do to Surfer (who, in flight, is pretty damned fast and maneuverable himself).
However, if this battle takes place in a relatively confined area, then yeah, an omni-blast might eventually work(assuming Surfer has feats that depict him expanding his omni-blasts to any distance he chooses, of course.) If so, please post them. If not, I'm less inclined to see this as a viable option.
Originally posted by ODGI never once mentioned Zoom running on air. Don't project.
It's even less 'in character' for Professor Zoom to start running around on thin air since nobody's even posted or referenced a single time he's ever done so. This thread does not specify "imaginary makeup feats," after all.Taking advantage of one's airborne mobility against a grounded opponent isn't exactly a stretch for Surfer based on his 40+ years history. Nor is it surprising to anyone whose ever read a Flash comic. Surfer one-upping that airborne advantage by disrupting the battlefield is simply added flavor. And the scale with which he can destroy a battlefield was just being driven home by the references to planet-busting.
And that is still more relevant that Professor Zoom's unproven ability (so far) to run around on thin air.
Originally posted by Galan007
Airborne or not, Surfer isn't touching Zoom, hence stalemate.However, if this battle takes place in a confined area, then yeah, an omni-blast might eventually work(assuming Surfer has feats that depict him expanding his omni-blasts to any distance he chooses, of course.) If so, please post them. If not, I'm less inclined to see this as a viable option.
I don't think the forum basic battlefield setting is in an "infinite" atmosphereless environment. Is it? Otherwise, how would BFR even work?
His planet buster shown in Annihilation was an omniblast. He also did an expanding omniblast when he tried to escape with Ariwalker the issue prior.
You're basically saying that someone with infinite options given infinite time who has the ability (thru cosmic awareness) to accurately and thoroughly analyze the situation will be unable to come up with options because the other guy will just run away or dodge. I just strongly disagree with this.
Originally posted by NibedicusNo, I was just thinking planet-sized, as some have mentioned earlier. That's all.
I don't think the forum basic battlefield setting is in an "infinite" atmosphereless environment. Is it? Otherwise, how would BFR even work?His planet buster shown in Annihilation was an omniblast. He also did an expanding omniblast when he tried to escape with Ariwalker the issue prior.
You're basically saying that someone with infinite options given infinite time who has the ability (thru cosmic awareness) to accurately and thoroughly analyze the situation will be unable to come up with options because the other guy will just run away or dodge. I just strongly disagree with this.
That's true. An omni-blast can definitely work in that case. 👆
No, I'm basically asking for proof to back up some of the claims made about Surfer. My point is: just because a character 'can' do something, doesn't mean it is in character for them to do. Nothing more nothing less.
Really, this comes down to initial blitz. Surfer will get blitzed by Zoom, that much I'm certain of. IF he endures the blitz long enough to realize that he must go airborne, then the battle shifts in his favor. He'd likely not release an omni-blast right away-- he'd probably fly around trying(and failing) to blast Zoom with more conventional blasts(CIS is still on, after all)... But yeah, if he unleashes Annihilation-ish omni-blast, game over. Zoom can't do shit if the battlefield is no longer there and/or he's dead.
Originally posted by Galan007
No, I was just thinking planet-sized, as some have mentioned earlier. That's all.That's true. An omni-blast can definitely work in that case. 👆
No, I'm basically asking for proof to back up some of the claims made about Surfer. My point is: just because a character 'can' do something, doesn't mean it is in character for them to do. Nothing more nothing less.
Really, this comes down to initial blitz. Surfer will get blitzed by Zoom, that much I'm certain of. IF he endures the blitz long enough to realize that he must go airborne, then the battle shifts in his favor. He'd likely not release an omni-blast right away-- he'd probably fly around trying(and failing) to blast Zoom with more conventional blasts... But yeah, if he unleashes the Annihilation omni-blast, game over.
But that's what I've been saying, tho.
uhuh
Like I said, the question will primarily be:
"Can Zoom KO the Surfer within the space of a single blitz?"
IF yes Zoom stomps. IF not Surfer stomps.