The Official "Argue with Quan about Zelda" Thread

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
That is not a no limits fallacy. It is a fact. The Master Sword is all that hurt him. It is more powerful than bullets.

What, you're Spanish now? A castle bust didn't scratch him, an RPG won't do the trick either.

So, now that you know what it means to be sentient, to be conscious, and we know that the sword is conscious, this means what? I want you to try and piece it together.

Speculation. Portals more than likely.

When in the game is it stated the sword is sentient ?

His skin repels castle busting spears, a bullet is nothing.

We see him hit.

When it makes the conscious choice to accept Link as its master. Also, the front page shows you a godamn picture of the spirit of the sword, don't even try denying this point. haermm

So, we know it's sentient, do you know what that means?

So I was really dwelling on the concept of time travel the other day and I put some thoughts together.

Let's start with fictional universes. We compare every fictional universe to our own and use what we understand of our universe to conceptualize that which takes place in the fictional ones. So we have to assume that everything that isn't obviously impossible in our world, behaves exactly the same as it would in our universe.

Now in order to have what one would consider True Time Travel (henceforth referred to as T3), the traveler would have to manipulate both time and space(matter). Now there are forms of time manipulation that wouldn't require the same things as T3 does. Time stops, slowing, or speeding up, may or may not require both time and space manipulation on a much smaller scale than T3 approaches. Mostly because those are either very small area of effect abilities or it's the user themselves who's abilities(perception/speed) are augmented.

On the other hand is T3 and it requires so much more! Our planet is rotating, while it's rotating it is orbiting around a star, this star is orbiting around the center of our galaxy, the galaxy is moving through space at high speeds. So any time manipulation such as moving even a single year forward or backward in time also requires the manipulation of matter(and time of course) on a galactic scale.

Every time the Master Sword is pulled from or placed into the pedestal in the Temple of Time in Ocarina of time, it's a humongous, galaxy(at minimum) moving event.

"As long as you hold the Ocarina of Time and Master Sword, you hold time itself in your hands"

So... the MS is just ridiculous, that's all I'm saying.

Also what other characters or items seem ridiculously powerful with reality manipulation in light of this? Amaterasu is the first that comes to mind what with moving through time and breaking time stops.

The Harp of Ages and Rod of Seasons come to mind.

What if the Traveller is not effecting time on the universal scale, but instead only moves their personal place in time.

In this instance it would mean the time you left would still exist without you, and we know that a Split Timeline exists in LoZ due to Link going back.

(Had a chat about this before to see if theres another theory instead of every time manipulator having universal control)

Originally posted by BloodRain
What if the Traveller is not effecting time on the universal scale, but instead only moves their personal place in time.

In this instance it would mean the time you left would still exist without you, and we know that a Split Timeline exists in LoZ due to Link going back.

(Had a chat about this before to see if theres another theory instead of every time manipulator having universal control)

Depending on the distance in time, even if it was only that person and what they were carrying with them, if it's a long distance in time it would also have to be large distance in space. For LoZ in particular there are instances like with the Sun's Song where it's clearly everything around Link being moved/altered rather than just him, Or in Majora's Mask where the time slow affects everything except for Link. Odd as heck and worthy of more discussion.

Also, Zelda send Link back in OoT, which is what resulted in the split.

Originally posted by Cyner
Depending on the distance in time, even if it was only that person and what they were carrying with them, if it's a long distance in time it would also have to be large distance in space. For LoZ in particular there are instances like with the Sun's Song where it's clearly everything around Link being moved/altered rather than just him, Or in Majora's Mask where the time slow affects everything except for Link. Odd as heck and worthy of more discussion.

True enough. Though the Sun's Song is pretty blatantly large scale.

FTR I'm not arguing for universal time powar. Just kinda discussing things.

Ditto, just noting ideas down :T Its interesting because you'd think that time, being such a major thing as it is, would be impossible to control by anything less than universal beings. That or with it stating that it only works on a certain scale (within 100ft).

But then we have relatively weak characters pulling it off.

The time split wasn't caused by going back and forth, really what we're looking at isn't a time split at all. It's three separate timelines seen from the perspective of one event. In HH there is a timeline where Link is defeated by Ganon, in the other two timelines Link is victorious. If it were a split timeline there would still be no room for the loss.

I could see that only the person could be affected if you are traveling forward in time, however traveling backward requires that all the other matter around the traveler be sent backward in time also. We can't be sure that time even exists without matter, so going back in time may not even be possible without the reconstruction of said past matter...

What if you're not going backwards in a linear fashion, but back to that point? Like a wormhole in time, straight to the destination in that moment in time without going back through everything.

I'm not even sure how that would work... but my theory on recreating the matter when you go back in time is based on a linear time model anyway. If time is repeating or time and matter exist separately, then things could be completely different.

Originally posted by BloodRain
What if you're not going backwards in a linear fashion, but back to that point? Like a wormhole in time, straight to the destination in that moment in time without going back through everything.

Originally posted by Cyner
I'm not even sure how that would work... but my theory on recreating the matter when you go back in time is based on a linear time model anyway. If time is repeating or time and matter exist separately, then things could be completely different.

What we know is that Zeldaverse time is not a 'static block universe' as some propose in 4D space time. Determinism doesn't seem to be in play there. This is confirmed because there's a timeline where Link loses in OoT. This makes Zelda a multiverse style timeline, which should be obvious because separate timelines.

Unless you believe in the trinity timeline theory...

Originally posted by Cyner
I'm not even sure how that would work... but my theory on recreating the matter when you go back in time is based on a linear time model anyway. If time is repeating or time and matter exist separately, then things could be completely different.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Wormhole doesn't work for OoT's time shenanigans, Link ages and regresses as he travels, he doesn't just hop from one point to another, he actually travels back and forward, forcing a complete rewind, which honestly is not surprising considering he uses the Master Sword to do this.

Or something..

If that were true he'd be taken back in time in that exact location he was in, not transported back to the exact moment he drew the sword :0

Or something..

But he always drew the sword in the same place, lol. The time he does so does change though, things he'd already achieved in the past remain achieved, unlike in MM where a rewind undoes all of his work because he goes back to the first day before he'd done anything at all.

Except when Zelda sends him back at the end?

Also now that we know that the LoZ timeline splits when Link moves around in time. Doesn't that technically mean one is formed whenever he went back before the moon fell?

The Ocarina of Time seems to follow different rules than the Master Sword. The method of travel seems to matter in Zelda.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Except when Zelda sends him back at the end?

Also now that we know that the LoZ timeline splits when Link moves around in time. Doesn't that technically mean one is formed whenever he went back before the moon fell?