The Official "Argue with Quan about Zelda" Thread

Started by The Scenario87 pages

Selfisness is neutral at worst. Only when you actively harm others for your own gain does it become evil.

And Midna never hurt anyone but Zant in her quest.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Selfisness is neutral at worst. Only when you actively harm others for your own gain does it become evil.

And Midna never hurt anyone but Zant in her quest.

When you manipulate others for your own selfish desires that is evil. Your pro Zelda definition of evil is just your own.

Making a deal is manipulation now? Really, Midna didn't have to help Link save the kids, or save the Zora, or return light to the land. She made a promise to Link that if she helped him, he would help her. Neutral at worst since she helped someone in exchange for a service, and help up her end up the bargain. Heck, she even let Link put the Fused Shadow quest on hold so he could go rescue Colin from King Bulblin.

What part of this is evil? That was mean about it?

Originally posted by The Scenario
Making a deal is manipulation now? Really, Midna didn't have to help Link save the kids, or save the Zora, or return light to the land. She made a promise to Link that if she helped him, he would help her. Neutral at worst since she helped someone in exchange for a service, and help up her end up the bargain. Heck, she even let Link put the Fused Shadow quest on hold so he could go rescue Colin from King Bulblin.

What part of this is evil? That was mean about it?

Even the lame Ganondorf was amused by this. Shadow moved by light. Wraps it up nicely. She was moved by them hence her own selfless actions later in the game.

Moved.

Good word. Implies change, that Midna moved into the light. The light of, say, good. So Midna moved towards good.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Moved.

Good word. Implies change, that Midna moved into the light. The light of, say, good. So Midna moved towards good.

Yes, she was moved by their selfless actions which I have always maintained. I never said she did not but regardless she is capable of both.

Dorf was amused by her being moved. Such a weak shitty universe.

Moved. Changed. No longer selfish.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Moved. Changed. No longer selfish.
Nah, still capable of both but the game concluded on a high note for her.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Selfishness is evil. Already proven.
No, you have no examples of her being Selfish past the early game. She is, present tense, as in now, good. Prove otherwise or concede.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
No, you have no examples of her being Selfish past the early game. She is, present tense, as in now, good. Prove otherwise or concede.
She has demonstrated both. You want to ignore certain showings as always.

Circumstances change, and people change. If Midna is no longer being selfish, it means she is no longer selfish.

Okay, how about I explain it like this: Thor wasn't originally worthy of Mjolnir. He had to learn a lesson, or change his behavior, in order to become worthy. So now that he is worthy, is it safe to ignore his past showing of unworthiness? Or because he's demonstrated both, he's forever stuck in some grey worthy/unworthy limbo state?

Originally posted by The Scenario
Circumstances change, and people change. If Midna is no longer being selfish, it means she is no longer selfish.

Okay, how about I explain it like this: Thor wasn't originally worthy of Mjolnir. He had to learn a lesson, or change his behavior, in order to become worthy. So now that he is worthy, is it safe to ignore his past showing of unworthiness? Or because he's demonstrated both, he's forever stuck in some grey worthy/unworthy limbo state?

He isn't 100 percent good either. I won't ignore the shitty things he has done either. You will. Difference between yourself and I.

Not talking about goodness. I'm just pointing out that your argument also applies to Thor's worthiness. You seem to think if someone was a certain way once, they are that way forever, which simply isn't true.

People change. If you want to claim otherwise, show Midna being selfish after Zelda's sacrifice.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Not talking about goodness. I'm just pointing out that your argument also applies to Thor's worthiness. You seem to think if someone was a certain way once, they are that way forever, which simply isn't true.

People change. If you want to claim otherwise, show Midna being selfish after Zelda's sacrifice.

I never said she was good or evil forever. I said she is capable of both.

I never claimed that.

You're implying it pretty hard with the 'she was selfish' posts. How about this: your argument is that if a person was a certain way, they will always have that inside them forever. That cover it?

Originally posted by The Scenario
You're implying it pretty hard with the 'she was selfish' posts. How about this: your argument is that if a person was a certain way, they will always have that inside them forever. That cover it?
I am saying she isn't a true hero like some others and is capable of selfishness. No biggie. Shadow moved by light. It even amused the redhead.

You don't have to be a true hero to be a good guy. Or girl as the case may be.

So it's impossible to wipe a stain off one's record?

Originally posted by The Scenario
You don't have to be a true hero to be a good guy. Or girl as the case may be.

So it's impossible to wipe a stain off one's record?

The stain will always remain. I don't look past anything and never deny the context.

That's a bit harsh...

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
That's a bit harsh...
?