Morpheus & Destiny Vs Molecule Man & Beyonder

Started by Mr Master3 pages
Mr Master Junior Member

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And while we're here discussing Owen Reece, I might as well give
the onlookers an understanding of how his history concerning power transitioned.

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Vs Klaw and Aaron ... Owen could not control organic Molecules or warp space-time.

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Vs Beyonder ... Owen (as MM) could control organic Molecules & warp space-time.

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Vs Sentry ... Owen could control organic Molecules but could not warp space-time.

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Conclusion:

While Owen was more powerful vs Sentry, than Klaw or Aaron,
Owen was no where near as powerful when he took on Sentry than
when he battled Beyonder.

1. Owen (control over organic & in-organic molecules ... able to warp space-time)

2. Owen (control over organic & in-organic molecules)

3. Owen (control over in-organic molecules only)

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Sentry, after getting effortlessly owned defeated a distracted, mentally unstable #2 Owen.

Which is still major upgrade points for Sentry.

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^^^ ++++++++

Proof confirming the above!

++++++++++++

On Panel:

How Owen got his "power up"

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16292097_10.jpg]

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On Panel:

This is why Owen Reece's unlimited side is far more powerful than a Cube being:

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16292100_14.jpg]

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16292103_15.jpg]

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On Panel:

At the end of the Beyonder fight, Owen Reece takes over his unlimited side
and de-powers himself again by burying his unlimited side within his sub-conscious.

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16292106_16.jpg]

This is why when he confronts Sentry,
he's not at the same power-level as when he battled Beyonder. 🙂

-------------------------

Owen Reece, fully unleashed, destroys Sentry imo.

Now I must say, I hope Owen was somehow de-powered further and I didn't catch it
cause if not then Sentry beat a guy who claimed ripping Galaxies apart was easy stuff,
and the LT called Owen "one of the most powerful beings in all creation."

So,
either Owen subconsciously aided his own demise,
or "reign" Sentry is on a whole other level,
from the Sentry that has always been before "reign" and after.

Mr Master Junior Member

++++++++++

Ok, so we probably wanna see how Owen lost to Klaw and Aaron.

Yes, we know Owen was de-powered, but still we're interested.

++++++++++

De-powered (can't control organic molecules or warp space-time) Owen Reece

loses to Klaw due to jobbing:

... hey there, I took away your blaster but still,
be my guest and please hit me while I stand here in glory.

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De-powered (can't control organic molecules or warp space-time) Owen Reece

loses to Aaron due to ridiculous jobbing: (on a cartoon scale)

If yall actually read the scans you'll notice ...

Owen was clowning around the entire fight, and jobbing into a loss,
even telling Aaron his weakness concerning organic molecules,
even waiting for Aaron to attack to show off by re-directing what
Aaron threw at em.

For jobbing and waiting like an idiot for Aaron to attack he lost.

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zopzop Lord of the Great Abyss

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is why Owen Reece's unlimited side is far more powerful than a Cube being:

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16292100_14.jpg]

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16292103_15.jpg]


Did you catch what Kubik said concerning the Beyonder? That if MM "rent the life force of a being such as the Beyonder", it would "wreck unthinkable havoc across MULTIVERSAL cosmography".

Mr Master Junior Member

^^ 👆 Oh absolutely, I pointed it out to someone in this thread I think.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Mr Master
I am of the opinion, and I respectfully disagree with your perspective likewise.
I don't see any doubts imo, I see Owen being informed, about how he feels inside.

The other scan of "another example" doesn't add anything imo.
Owen's Dormy creation told him: "take the world, it's yours to have"
and Owen replied: "I don't want the world, I want here" ...
means nothing to me.

Anyway ...
Owen wanted to lose sub-consciously, since his friends were aspects of such.
So, it's no surprise "consciously" he would not enjoy that when he actually lost.

Actually, I prefer to say,
Owen eased the win for Sentry, rather than outright handing it to him.

👆 Smells like PIS.

... meh, Sentry was obliterated on 3 separate occasions by Owen,
and at the end, Sentry even got a clean shot at Owen,
(same looking energy he used to defeat Owen)
and Owen immediately recovered/retaliated & exploded Sentry a Third time:

Then, the same looking orange energy has a lasting affect 3 pages later. lol
It seems to me, sub-consciously Owen had enough, and it was time to go away,
and Sentry was the only one powerful enough he could count on for the job.

Just my two, or more cents. 🙂

banking on statements made by owen's "friends" is faulty, though, because he either disagreed with them, or flat-out ignored them, almost every time they appeared on panel together. heck, he even disagreed with them in the very same panels you're referencing. clearly his 'normal' persona is the most reliable one he's got. :-/

aside from that, absolutely nothing from the owen/sentry battle itself alluded to the notion that owen was holding back by any stretch of the word. to the contrary, owen was clearly pissed off/berserker/bloodlusted during that confrontation-- and characters don't tend to hold back when they enter that mindset.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16279168/Dark_Avengers_12_013.jpg.html
"you're in MY world, sentry!"*he says with a pissed off look after being attacked*

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16279170/Dark_Avengers_12_015.jpg.html
"you LIARS!"*he says after he was attacked by the humans, and before he atomizes said attackers*

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16279171/Dark_Avengers_12_016.jpg.html
"how are you doing this to me?!?! i control the molecules! i do!"*he frantically says as sentry is overpowering him*

so yeah, there's no reason to assume that owen threw the fight, or that he could have destroyed sentry any time he chose, or that he allowed sentry to atomize him. no reason at all. there's more proof against that notion than there is for it. again: it's not a low showing for owen either way.

zopzop Lord of the Great Abyss

Originally posted by Galan007
so yeah, there's no reason to assume that owen threw the fight, or that he could have destroyed sentry any time he chose, or that he allowed sentry to atomize him. no reason at all. there's more proof against that notion than there is for it. again: it's not a low showing for owen either way.

You realize a lot, if not most, of the Secret War I/II feats done by MM and Beyonder weren't retconned right? This is the guy that repaired MULTIVERSAL wide destruction with a raised finger :

Trust me, he wasn't in his right mind during the Sentry fight and it's not something the writer pulled from his @$$. Throughout his entire history he's had self imposed mental blocks on his powers. We saw what happened when Doom removed some of them during Secret Wars I/II and later when he himself started exploring his powers and removing his mental blocks (that he imposed on himself yet again after separating from the Cube he and Beyonder formed and that he imposed on himself AGAIN after that fight ended).

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by zopzop
Trust me, he wasn't in his right mind during the Sentry fight and it's not something the writer pulled from his @$$.
i never questioned whether or not owen was portrayed as less powerful during siege then he was during secret wars. after all, it was mentioned a few times during siege that owen could only affect molecules "near him", or somesuch. conversely, sw-era owen had no restrictions in his scope of power at all. clearly, though, he was not intended to be a multiversal++ powerhouse in siege. that much was obvious.

that said, for the purposes of his battle with sentry, i do not believe owen was holding back. i believe sentry legitimately overpowered him. if it is your opinion that the writer was an idiot and didn't research owen or w/e, then you are entitled to that opinion... doesn't make the battle any less canon, though.

Mr Master Junior Member

Originally posted by Galan007

banking on statements made by owen's "friends" is faulty,
though, because he either disagreed with them, or flat-out ignored
them, almost every time they appeared on panel together. heck, he
even disagreed with them in the very same panels you're
referencing. clearly his 'normal' persona is the most reliable one
he's got.
aside from that, absolutely nothing from the owen/sentry battle
itself alluded to the notion that owen was holding back by any
stretch of the word. to the contrary, owen was clearly pissed
off/berserker/bloodlusted during that confrontation-- and characters
don't tend to hold back when they enter that mindset.
"you're in MY world, sentry!"*he says with a pissed off look after
being attacked*
"how are you doing this to me?!?! i control the molecules! i do!"*he
frantically says as sentry is overpowering him*
so yeah, there's no reason to assume that owen threw the fight, or
that he could have destroyed sentry any time he chose, or that he
allowed sentry to atomize him. no reason at all. there's more proof
against that notion than there is for it. again: it's not a low showing
for owen either way.


That's great, and I respect your opinion.
But yeah, there's reason to know Owen threw the fight imo,
and he could have destroyed Sentry like he did 3 times prior, effortlessly.

Anyway, Owen's not happy cause it's 'sub-consciously' he wants to lose.
His 'sub-conscious' was in the form of his friends.
And, there's no reason of any kind to assume he was lying to himself.

Originally posted by Galan007

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16279170/Dark_Avengers_12_015.jpg.html
"you LIARS!"*he says after he was attacked by the humans, and
before he atomizes said attackers*


This has nothing to do with his manifested 'sub-conscious.'

Owen is referring to Victoria Hand who told him that was a "nuke."
But in fact, it was not, hence ... "you liars" ...

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Mr Master
and he could have destroyed Sentry like he did 3 times prior, effortlessly.
owen destroyed sentry those times before he[sentry] tried to apply his matter manipulation offensively. once he did so, we saw sentry very decisively overpower owen.

i viewed the scene as such: sentry was intended to have more overall power, but owen was intended to have far more control over his power(hence sentry still requiring his help to restore the people.)

Originally posted by Mr Master
This has nothing to do with his manifested 'sub-conscious.'

Owen is referring to Victoria Hand who told him that was a "nuke."
But in fact, it was not, hence ... "you liars" ...

never said it did. just used it as proof that owen was pissed off during that battle.

victoria told owen that she/they weren't there to fight... then sentry attacked him... then the military tried to nuke him. ergo his exclamation: "you LIARS!"

Mr Master Junior Member

Originally posted by Galan007

owen destroyed sentry those times before he[sentry] tried to
apply his matter manipulation offensively. once he did so, we saw
sentry very decisively overpower owen.


Actually, I saw Sentry hit Owen before that,
Owen felt it, but took it,
and then owned Sentry a Third time:

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16304386_O1.jpg]
[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16304387_O2.jpg]

That's the same looking orange energy Sentry used to hold Owen.

Just sayin.

Originally posted by Galan007

i viewed the scene as such: sentry was intended to have more
overall power, but owen was intended to have far more control
over his power(hence sentry still requiring his help to restore the
people.)


That's perhaps the biggest comedy of the entire story.
While Sentry is holding Owen's molecules, Owen is able to re-create the 44
obliterated humans, the heroes he killed, the space fleet he disintegrated, and he
also restored the country side, all with a thought, within a panel.

And the screamer that tells us Owen had enough of being there,
Owen doesn't return.
Sentry re-formed 3 times and was less adept at manipulating matter,
surely Owen could've returned also, but he did not. (plot/pis = end of story)

Originally posted by Galan007

never said it did.
victoria told owen that she/they weren't there to fight... then sentry
attacked him... then the military tried to nuke him. ergo his
exclamation: "you LIARS!"


👆

Anyway, I can't say your points aren't viable, cause they are,
but I have my point of view from the material, and it differs from yours,
but, so long as we end the discussion with a respectful disagreement,
I'll keep my coconut smile. hug

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Mr Master
👆

Anyway, I can't say your points aren't viable, cause they are,
but I have my point of view from the material, and it differs from yours,
but, so long as we end the discussion with a respectful disagreement,
I'll keep my coconut smile. hug

fair enough. 👆

zopzop Lord of the Great Abyss

Originally posted by Galan007
if it is your opinion that the writer was an idiot and didn't research owen or w/e, then you are entitled to that opinion... doesn't make the battle any less canon, though.

No you misunderstood me Galan. I actually said the writer had precedent for writing Owen down like that (even before Secret Wars, Owen had odd self imposed mental blocks and emotional issues that limited his abilities). His mental state affects his power level and he was "mental" for sure during that story arc.

So the loss to Sentry makes sense. If it was "Owen Unleashed", Voidtry would be wiped from existence.