Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
To put things into context,

Spoiler:
it was a dream sequence that has Bats armed with 2 pistols shooting at the bad guys.

And I think it's only fair that if the bad guys are armed & intent on killing Batman then there's no reason why Bats shouldn't be able to turn those weapons against them.

Then you have the warehouse scene where

Spoiler:
Batman's first move is to sabotage all the firearms & turn the battle into hand to hand/.

Spoiler:
killed a ton of people though. He didn't just kill in the dream sequence. He killed plenty of guys in the car chase scene. And he killed people while fighting too. Not to mention the bat brand that is a death sentence. This is a brutal, unforgiving pg-13 Bat-punisher. He has great fighting moves...but he still kills people.

Yeah the batmobile chase was kinda brutal and murder-y

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
He still

Spoiler:
killed a ton of people though. He didn't just kill in the dream sequence. He killed plenty of guys in the car chase scene. And he killed people while fighting too. Not to mention the bat brand that is a death sentence. This is a brutal, unforgiving pg-13 Bat-punisher. He has great fighting moves...but he still kills people.

And didn't you ever stop to assume that maybe Bats did kill in the comics?

We see him viciously elbowing goons in the face, complete with images of their teeth & blood flying everywhere. We see Bats bashing them unconscious & possibly leaving them in a coma.

King hitting them in the back of the head. That's now labelled as a "coward punch" by the media after people have been killed or have suffered from permanent brain damage.

I've lost count of how many times Batman has smashed someone's face into or through a wall. Not to mention through a glass window.

Do you stop & think whether there's fragments of shattered skull piercing the brain or a shard of glass has ruptured an artery & the guy's bleeding to death?

Originally posted by Quincy
Yeah the batmobile chase was kinda brutal and murder-y

But we've already seen that in the various other Batman movies.
And comics & cartoons.

Why single it out here?

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
And didn't you ever stop to assume that maybe Bats did kill in the comics

It makes him more realistic, though.

Try fighting all those groups of armed thugs and not to kill any of them. IMPOSSIBRU! shocked

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It makes him more realistic, though.

Try fighting all those groups of armed thugs and not to kill any of them. IMPOSSIBRU! shocked

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
No, because the point that the normal continuity comics go out of there way to make, is that it's against his code. He doesn't kill in the comics. There are elseworlds versions of him that do, but he hasn't really killed anyone as normal continuity Batman since the early days. Look, it's fine if they want Batman to kill. Doesn't mean all of us have to like it. It works for some characters, like The Punisher; because that's his thing. Batman however holds himself higher than letting himself become a murderer. I guess the DCEU doesn't want that version of Batman though.

If you can easily dismiss every classic example I've given you towards Batman's actions in the comics then show me proof of one instance where BatFleck actually kills someone in the film.

Point out a confirmed dead body & not just a guy laying on the ground.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It makes him more realistic, though.

Try fighting all those groups of armed thugs and not to kill any of them. IMPOSSIBRU! shocked

My point exactly.

The current pro-gun argument in America is if a bad guy can be armed, why can't the good guy retaliate in the same way?

It would've been out of character for Bats to arm himself with a firearm & that is never the case in the film.

Bats simply has the philosophy of "Play with fire, expect to be burnt by it."

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
If you can easily dismiss every classic example I've given you towards Batman's actions in the comics then show me proof of once instance where BatFleck actually kills someone in the film.

Spoiler:
actually killing people in the movie. For instance, the terrorist that tries to kill Martha Kent...he kills him. The grenade toss, using the guns of the terrorists against them, etc. All the other stuff is obvious. Batman is a killer in BVS. Not sure why you're trying to defend it. Some people like it, some people don't. Just accept it and move on.

I'm not defending his killing actions on screen.

I'm simply pointing out that people tend to ignore the possible same consequences in comics & cartoons where Batman's actions could've led to death.

He saw no other option with

Spoiler:
the flame thrower guy. It's the same scene/scenario in Miller's TDKR where the Mutie's holding a gun to the kidnapped toddler's head. Bats was forced to shoot him.

Yes, I know he has a No Kill Code.
BatBale's quote sums it up when he said, "I'm not going to kill you ....but I don't have to save you either."

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Point out a confirmed dead body & not just a guy laying on the ground.

Ha. Yeah...

TDKReturns had cops getting knocked around by explosions... we know Bats hasn't killed them, even though it looked very much like it.

Originally posted by Quincy
Yeah the batmobile chase was kinda brutal and murder-y

In the DC cinematic universe the DC heroes fail and kill all the time. Superman even admits in this new film how he wasn't paying attention. They are pretty shitty heroes if you ask me.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Ha. Yeah...

TDKReturns had cops getting knocked around by explosions... we know Bats hasn't killed them, even though it looked very much like it.

Frank Miller brought realism to Batman in the comics & the 1st thing he emphasised was that Bats may not kill outright but that doesn't mean he has to be less brutal in his actions.
THIS movie pays homage to that.

And as I mentioned earlier Bats DID pull the trigger in TDKR.
He was given no choice. One baby saved. One bad guy killed.
I see no broken moral issues there.

Regardless, it doesn't matter. In the comics he doesn't kill. I don't care how it "looks". It's understood. The point is Snyder went against that and it rubbed people the wrong way. Not everyone is against it. But those that are are justified in their criticism.

Lower than initially thought. "Only" 166million. Might have been less than stellar WOM for the Sunday showings. Either that or the reviews hurt it more than we initially thought:

http://variety.com/2016/film/box-office/batman-v-superman-box-office-3-1201740145/

😂

I'm badmouthing the shit out of this film.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn

Then you have the warehouse scene where

Spoiler:
Batman's first move is to sabotage all the firearms & turn the battle into hand to hand/.

I think that's quite telling that he wasn't an outright murderer, and in fact did attempt not to kill people in battle, but when in a car chasing people shooting massive loads of gunfire and missiles your way, it was just kind of inevitable people would die, and Batman didn't seem too bothered if and when that did happen.

That said I think it might have been too early for a Batman this brutal, right after the Nolan series, where him not killing was made into a pretty big part of his moral code.

Batman is just a shitty hero who doesn't value life. The DC stands out as incompetent and carefree heroes.