Nekron makes his way to Marvel Universe and causes havock.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Disproven by the fact that it was never present at any single instant of the Marvel universe/Multiverse's birth. Not when Alien Entity and Reed went back in time to recreate reality, not when Sise-Neg went back and did the same, not when Mad Genis and Entropy remade the Multiverse, not when the Celestials were shown to construct the original multiverse, not when the FF again recently went back in time to the moment of the Big Bang, and certainly not during the birth of Galactus.

All on-panel, amounting to considerably more substance than a few random instances of narrative and character based hyperbole.

Hardly. Common sense tells me that in those instances, Marvel didn't want to make a story about the Phoenix Force.

Sorry, but you can't ignore what Marvel states the Phoenix Force is through multiple panels of print. On panel > your denial.

......if we look at phoenix's origins, it's definitely not the big bang nor the spark that ignites creation:

adventures of x-men #12, shows us that phoenix died along with everyone else in the universe (eternity included) and galen is the only survivor of the previous universe:

http://i.imgur.com/4bQ7sVg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QgDUHEJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9a69UrS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XlnfhhA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QGV4pQQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Jmk7Rc5.jpg

same story was retold in several other issues, however this one puts a bit emphasis on the phoenix unlike others.

2005 handbook, confirms that the phoenix died during the big bang and was reborn from it:

http://i.imgur.com/ZrsLu3P.jpg?1

x-men phoenix force handbook 2010, confirms this as well:

http://i.imgur.com/JvbYdtf.jpg?1

and as zop already mentioned, the MU was remade several times - marvel premiere #14, fantastic four #531, and captain marvel v5 #6 without the phoenix being present.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Hardly. Common sense tells me that in those instances, Marvel didn't want to make a story about the Phoenix Force.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Sorry, but you can't ignore what Marvel states the Phoenix Force is through multiple panels of print. On panel > your denial.

So we got another Quan lol

Originally posted by operator616
......if we look at phoenix's origins, it's definitely not the big bang nor the spark that ignites creation:

adventures of x-men #12, shows us that phoenix died along with everyone else in the universe (eternity included) and galen is the only survivor of the previous universe:

http://i.imgur.com/4bQ7sVg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QgDUHEJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9a69UrS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XlnfhhA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QGV4pQQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Jmk7Rc5.jpg

same story was retold in several other issues, however this one puts a bit emphasis on the phoenix unlike others.

2005 handbook, confirms that the phoenix died during the big bang and was reborn from it:

http://i.imgur.com/ZrsLu3P.jpg?1

x-men phoenix force handbook 2010, confirms this as well:

http://i.imgur.com/JvbYdtf.jpg?1

and as zop already mentioned, the MU was remade several times - marvel premiere #14, fantastic four #531, and captain marvel v5 #6.

What does Reed refer to her as in the caption?

If he doesn't fully understand it, I doubt you do.

The Phoenix dying and being reborn is literally it's character. It's the spark of life in the multiverse, ensuring that life will continue on after death.

Death herself said it's the universal force that the highest level cosmic entities fear the most. To say that this isn't a good opponent for Nekron is just silly, although I don't know if you are necessarily saying that. If Nekron defeats her initially, what is he going to do when it's reborn?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
What does Reed refer to her as in the caption?

If he doesn't fully understand it, I doubt you do.

The Phoenix dying and being reborn is literally it's character. It's the spark of life in the multiverse, ensuring that life will continue on after death.

Death herself said it's the universal force that the highest level cosmic entities fear the most. To say that this isn't a good opponent for Nekron is just silly, although I don't know if you are necessarily saying that. If Nekron defeats her initially, what is he going to do when it's reborn?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
What sort of bullshit logic is that? The Phoenix Force is part of the SHARED Marvel Universe. It does not exist in an independent X-Men universe. The Marvel Universe's creation event has never actually involved the Phoenix Force, irrespective of whatever hyperbolic nonsense we're treated with in the X-titles.

That's the very epitome of irony.

Um, and if you know anything at all about Marvell, you would know that the X-Men storylines were very much independant of the rest of the events in the Marvel Universe, although unofficially so. That's why Marvel made a concerted effort to better integrate the X-Men mythos into the rest of the Marvel universe beginning with A vs X. Look it up or go to you local comic book story.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
What does Reed refer to her as in the caption?

If he doesn't fully understand it, I doubt you do.

The Phoenix dying and being reborn is literally it's character. It's the spark of life in the multiverse, ensuring that life will continue on after death.

Death herself said it's the universal force that the highest level cosmic entities fear the most. To say that this isn't a good opponent for Nekron is just silly, although I don't know if you are necessarily saying that. If Nekron defeats her initially, what is he going to do when it's reborn?

Lol, the Phoenix dying and being reborn from the Big Bang is not the same thing as it being the the Big Bang. The Phoenix Force isn't the Big Bang, it was one of the first things born from the Big Bang, and this has been confirmed as recently as AvX, the special event which you so eagerly cited as proof of the Phoenix' specialness.

Cosmic Beings don't fear the Phoenix either.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Um, and if you know anything at all about Marvell, you would know that the X-Men storylines were very much independant of the rest of the events in the Marvel Universe, although unofficially so. That's why Marvel made a concerted effort to better integrate the X-Men mythos into the rest of the Marvel universe beginning with A vs X. Look it up or go to you local comic book story.

to conclude my point.......everything tends to show that phoenix is merely the embodiment of all life in the universe/life force of the universe

excalibur #61, galactus says that she is the life force of the universe:

http://i.imgur.com/llA0TDd.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JZgdYZK.jpg

^that's just 1 example

this encounter is confirmed in the 2010 phoenix handbook:

http://i.imgur.com/y1yy6HF.jpg?1

and virtually all handbooks agree that phoenix is the primal universal force of life (i also included the power grid)

2010 handbook

http://i.imgur.com/r5PLSxy.jpg?1

2005 handbook:

http://i.imgur.com/PTq6eja.jpg?1

1991 handbook:

http://i.imgur.com/fgl2Tnf.jpg?1

1986 handbook:

http://i.imgur.com/W2E046a.jpg?1

1983 handbook:

http://i.imgur.com/rNgd00N.jpg?1

pretty clear that phoenix represents all life in the universe and nothing more, not alpha/omega, destruction/creation trash.

@blue area vet: in case you haven't noticed i already posted that scan from FF 522, and i already countered it, and as you can see in the handbooks, it's a universal force.

The idea that the X-Men somehow existed in a separate universe, up until AvX happened, has to be one of the stupidest statements that I have ever had the displeasure of reading on the VS forums. Right up there with some of Big-C's classic shenanigans.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
The idea that the X-Men somehow existed in a separate universe, up until AvX happened, has to be one of the stupidest statements that I have ever had the displeasure of reading on the VS forums. Right up there with some of Big-C's classic shenanigans.

Insults and false outrage are fine, doesn't change a thing, though. The storylines were largely separated. When one event was going on in an Avengers title, it apparently was not going in the X-Men "universe" and vice versa. Of course this was not consistently the case, but it happened often enough. Everyone knows that.

I brought this fact up as an explanation as to why Phoenix didn't appear in the instances of the universe being destroyed/remade. You can accept or reject it, but it doesn't negate multiple on panel descriptions/description/defintitions of the Phoenix Force. What's next, you denying it's existence all together? I guess non of the following dicussions took place:

"You scared the universal forces most of all"- Marvel Death

"...the Phoenix can obliterate and entire Cosmos"- Galactus

"...a primal force second only to that of the creator."- The Watcher

You can't discount any of this, it's cannon. Please observe the rules of discussion.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Um, and if you know anything at all about Marvell, you would know that the X-Men storylines were very much independant of the rest of the events in the Marvel Universe, although unofficially so. That's why Marvel made a concerted effort to better integrate the X-Men mythos into the rest of the Marvel universe beginning with A vs X. Look it up or go to you local comic book story.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
The idea that the X-Men somehow existed in a separate universe, up until AvX happened, has to be one of the stupidest statements that I have ever had the displeasure of reading on the VS forums. Right up there with some of Big-C's classic shenanigans.

Originally posted by operator616
galan.......if i understood you correct you want scans for the wiki he quoted, correct? if so, it's been mentioned multiple times......

uncanny x men #473, phoenix is the spark that ignites creation, and the fire that consumes it:

http://i.imgur.com/wNXYCTS.jpg

again, in x men book 3 #1:

http://i.imgur.com/2Srgz1Z.jpg

something similar is stated in x men true friends #3:

http://i.imgur.com/z5AZMBB.jpg

in any case, this is not true though, phoenix has many contradictions, and too much hyperbole, it was even once called as being second only to the creator (TOAA), in uncanny uncanny x men #137:

http://i.imgur.com/U8Wrj4a.jpg

and to add to the list of feats that's mentioned in this thread for nekron : he also gave krona the power to unmake the universe in tales of the green lantern.

nekron wins this, imo, based on feats, and the fact that phoenix has too many low showings to the point that it's laughable.

Statements are entirely meaningless without evidence to back them up-- and in the PF's case, the statements made about it are outright contradicted by the showings of characters that have actually "sparked creation" on panel-- some of whom will be mentioned in the next portion of my post.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
There are tons of contradictions with Phoenix Force, but this guy was demanding on panel language and thanks to you, that's what he got. Now he is trying his best to discredit the proof he asked for.

Juggernaut, for example, has stated time and time again that he is unstoppable-- yet his on panel showings contradict said statements, because he's been stopped dead in his tracks a few times on panel.

Same coin, Phoenix may have been stated to be "the spark that ignites creation", but she has no showings that confirm this. In fact, there are several other instances/characters that completely contradict the notion that the PF sparked creation-- Sise-Neg, the Alien Entity, Nemesis, Genis/Entropy, etc.

It'd be much easier if you took the time to read/compute/comprehend my posts before you responded to them. You'd look less retarded at this point. 👆

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hahahaha. This is one of the most hilarious things I've ever heard.
Its certainly up there with "would you eat mjolir" scenarios.

Not surprised you tagged alone. You need an ally at this time. Problem is, your false humor is paper thin. Marvel discussed how the X-Men storylines were sometimes isoolated prior to the X-Men Avengers crossover which lead to a reshaping of the superhero team landscape in Marvel.

Anyway, this is a side discussion. I for one haven't forgotten the real debate. Check out the scans I posted and get back with me.

BAV is definitely quanchi's sock.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Not surprised you tagged alone. You need an ally at this time. Problem is, your false humor is paper thin. Marvel discussed how the X-Men storylines were sometimes isoolated prior to the X-Men Avengers crossover which lead to a reshaping of the superhero team landscape in Marvel.

Anyway, this is a side discussion. I for one haven't forgotten the real debate. Check out the scans I posted and get back with me.

I don't need to read oversized scans from an alternate reality i.e. X-men Forever and another of hyperbolic statements from Galactus to know about phoenix. Thank you.

Originally posted by Galan007
I asked for showings, not statements.

Statements are entirely meaningless without evidence to back them up-- and in the PF's case, the statements made about it are outright contradicted by the showings of characters that have actually "sparked creation" on panel-- some of whom will be mentioned in the next portion of my post.

I asked for on panel showings, not statements.

Juggernaut, for example, has stated time and time again that he is unstoppable-- yet his on panel showings contradict said statements, because he's been stopped dead in his tracks a few times on panel.

Same coin, Phoenix may have been stated to be "the spark that ignites creation", but she has no showings that confirm this. In fact, there are several other instances/characters that completely contradict the notion that the PF sparked creation-- Sise-Neg, the Alien Entity, Nemesis, Genis/Entropy, etc.

It'd be much easier if you took the time to read/compute/comprehend my posts before you responded to them. You'd look less retarded at this point. 👆

Less retarded? You know what's retarded? A grown man such as yourself getting upset at someone you don't know due to a debate of the validity of fictional comic book characters. If you can't keep you emotions in check, you should stop posting until you can compose yourself.

There are MULTIPLE on panel discussions, many of which are cosmic abstracts, that confirm the Phoenix's purpose and power. I'd say characters like Galactus, Death, The Living Tribunal, the Watcher, etc. carry a little more weight that an idiot like Cain Marko. Do you see the difference?

Originally posted by Galan007
BAV is definitely quanchi's sock.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Me needing an ally? Lulz.

I don't need to read oversized scans from an alternate reality i.e. X-men Forever and another of hyperbolic statements from Galactus to know about phoenix. Thank you.

But what if the alternate reality and the current reality regard her in the same manner? 😘

Like I said, you a desperate man at this time, largely due to your appauling display of cheerleading in the Fernus vs Surfer post. All I am saying is that the Phoenix is linked to life and rebirth and should be a great match up for a tether-needy Nekron.