Wonder Woman VS Immortal Hercules H2H

Originally posted by Q99
There's also the matter that Black Canary and Batman regularly complement her on her hand to hand skill.

And when she fought with sticks with Canary, Canary thoughtbubbled, "I could use my cry, but then she'd use her powers..." indicating she wasn't fighting Dinah with powers.

Also, there is a massive difference between when WW and Batman spar (in which they will fight fairly evenly, and Batman will use holds that could be powered out of, indicating lack of super strengths), and when it's more serious (Hikatera, wherein she pwns him and there's no indication of not using powers), indicating she's not using her powers in the former.

😂

This is great. Anytime Batman gets the better of Wonder Woman (Even when she's serious or possessed or trying to take him out etc.) she's not using her powers.

What a convenient and hilarious stance to take. How about you support it with some evidence? Since when can Wonder Woman shut off her powers like taking off a Green Lantern Ring? It's one thing to say she's holding back her speed/strength but she's still a high end class 100 at base and doesn't have anything close to Superman's mental regulation of physical abilities.

Talk about having your cake and eating it too.

Wouldn't you argue that it is quite stupid for Batman to take out Diana on skill alone while she has her super strength, speed and all that other shit?

Then again this is Batman we are talking about. He has more BS under his resume than Superman.

Originally posted by h1a8
Skill is proven through
1. How a character performs in battle
2. How a character fare against a known other

1. Holds more weight than 2. since characters job/sometimes fight inefficiently, ABC logic is faulty, etc.

Skill isn't quantifiable as say strength and speed. You have to be experienced in fighting knowledge to have a credible subjective opinion on skill. Diana has shown highly skilled techniques (with their application) of countering, blocking, dodging, pressure points, agility, striking of all forms, etc.

You said Diana is a Class A fighter and is better then Hercules by two levels. Post evidence or SHUT UP. Very simple.

We've seen Hercules illustrate plenty of different forms of hand to hand skills etc.

Originally posted by h1a8
She is the greatest Amazon warrior. This makes her a class A fighter outright. There is plenty evidence that, in equal bodies, she can fight Batman, Lady Shiva, etc. and hold her own. In comics, when they have WW fight or spar with skilled fighters they ignore her powers. Just like Superman's speed/reflexes, super hearing, etc. is sometimes ignored in comics.

She can be the greatest Amazon fighter to ever live, that doesn't even make her Class C much less Class A in terms of fighting. What kind of nonsense is that?

And just because Thor is the greatest warrior of Asgard or Hercules of Olympus, does that make them the Class A fighters automatically as well? Or let me guess, does this logic only apply to DC characters you favour?

Hahahaha. Wonder Woman sparring with Batman, Deathstroke, Black Canary etc. in her vastly superhuman body and holding her own more or less is evidence that she can do so just as well while in a normal body? What kind of crack are you smoking?

Prove that Wonder Woman's powers are ignored. This isn't flight or energy based powers, you're arguing that her very superhuman stats themselves are being ignored.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Wouldn't you argue that it is quite stupid for Batman to take out Diana on skill alone while she has her super strength, speed and all that other shit?

Then again this is Batman we are talking about. He has more BS under his resume than Superman.

No he doesn't. He's Batman. Isn't that enough to prove his prowess?

Wonder Woman vs. Black Canary:
http://img83.exs.cx/img83/133/BoP_68_09.jpg
http://img83.exs.cx/img83/1342/BoP_68_10.jpg
http://img83.exs.cx/img83/3789/BoP_68_11.jpg
http://img41.exs.cx/img41/9804/BoP_68_13.jpg
http://img41.exs.cx/img41/8387/BoP_68_14.jpg

Black Canary gets the better of her in a staff fight. Maybe Diana can do just as well while powerless but using a fight where she does have powers as evidence is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You said Diana is a Class A fighter and is better then Hercules by two levels. Post evidence or SHUT UP. Very simple.

We've seen Hercules illustrate plenty of different forms of hand to hand skills etc.

She can be the greatest Amazon fighter to ever live, that doesn't even make her Class C much less Class A in terms of fighting. What kind of nonsense is that?

And just because Thor is the greatest warrior of Asgard or Hercules of Olympus, does that make them the Class A fighters automatically as well? Or let me guess, does this logic only apply to DC characters you favour?

Hahahaha. Wonder Woman sparring with Batman, Deathstroke, Black Canary etc. in her vastly superhuman body and holding her own more or less is evidence that she can do so just as well while in a normal body? What kind of crack are you smoking?

Prove that Wonder Woman's powers are ignored. This isn't flight or energy based powers, you're arguing that her very superhuman stats themselves are being ignored.

This is comics Rage. That's the way they work. This is a convenient way for the writer to display WW's level of fighting skill (by her fighting the best and ignoring her powers). Technically, or in real life that is stupid, but again this is comics and we are using the suspension of disbelief to get what the writer is trying to show us. We shouldn't treat this comic stuff as characters who actually exist and have powers.

You still believe I'm bias towards D.C.? Shame on you sir. I'm a martial artist and favor speed and martial arts more than anything. If speed was equalized I vote for Thor to stomp Superman for a high majority (even if Thor just melees). I could care less about what company. Search the Spider-man vs. WW thread. I supported Spidey beating WW. I argued against almost everyone LOL. Of course I don't believe that today (I got better sense) but at least you see where my heart was and still is.

Although I've seen Hercules display techniques and fighting ability, I have to say the I'm very convinced that WW shows higher level of skill with more smoothness of application and also more agililty. Even her kicking ability is vastly superior to his.

I admit that Hercules is a beast when it comes to wrestling and probably have greater skill than her in this aspect. But as far as striking, parrying, dodging, countering, she is definitely more skillful.

LOL it's hard to debate with you because you have the attitude of "we can't know the intentions of the writer" even though at times they are very clear. You can only prove something to a point. After that you must use common sense.

Herc is a better fighter.

Originally posted by h1a8
This is comics Rage. That's the way they work. This is a convenient way for the writer to display WW's level of fighting skill (by her fighting the best and ignoring her powers). Technically, or in real life that is stupid, but again this is comics and we are using the suspension of disbelief to get what the writer is trying to show us. We shouldn't treat this comic stuff as characters who actually exist and have powers.

You still believe I'm bias towards D.C.? Shame on you sir. I'm a martial artist and favor speed and martial arts more than anything. If speed was equalized I vote for Thor to stomp Superman for a high majority (even if Thor just melees). I could care less about what company. Search the Spider-man vs. WW thread. I supported Spidey beating WW. I argued against almost everyone LOL. Of course I don't believe that today (I got better sense) but at least you see where my heart was and still is.

Although I've seen Hercules display techniques and fighting ability, I have to say the I'm very convinced that WW shows higher level of skill with more smoothness of application and also more agililty. Even her kicking ability is vastly superior to his.

I admit that Hercules is a beast when it comes to wrestling and probably have greater skill than her in this aspect. But as far as striking, parrying, dodging, countering, she is definitely more skillful.

So Wonder Woman's suddenly powerless whenever she goes hand to hand with a street level character because you say so or it's convenient? Even when demonstrating her powers? Sorry, that's not how it works and your telepathy doesn't hold weight here.

You made a claim about Wonder Woman and have yet to produce a single piece of evidence to support it. All your posts so far amount to you thinking Wonder Woman is more skilled because your gut tells you so.

Now it'd be one thing if that's what you said, but you presented your position as something based on evidence. As if you were clearly in the right or something. So post evidence or GTFO.

Also, Thor isn't going to stomp Superman in combat just because of equalized speed.

There's no matter of powerless or what you think your opinion is.

Any peak-human trying to block the punch of someone who can lift a million tons, should lose whatever it is they're trying to block with. That's just how it is. There's no low or high feat. If Thor ****ing punches Daredevil, it doesn't matter if Matt rolls with the blow, Thor's punching hard enough to send a car into orbit.

If the peak human lives, then the super-strong character is either holding back or it's just plain bullshit.

YouTube video

Argument invalid.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So Wonder Woman's suddenly powerless whenever she goes hand to hand with a street level character because you say so or it's convenient? Even when demonstrating her powers? Sorry, that's not how it works and your telepathy doesn't hold weight here.

You made a claim about Wonder Woman and have yet to produce a single piece of evidence to support it. All your posts so far amount to you thinking Wonder Woman is more skilled because your gut tells you so.

Now it'd be one thing if that's what you said, but you presented your position as something based on evidence. As if you were clearly in the right or something. So post evidence or GTFO.

Also, Thor isn't going to stomp Superman in combat just because of equalized speed.

When WW is going up against a top level fighter and her powers aren't being displayed then yes her powers are off. The same reasoning of why Superman's super speed and senses sometimes get shut off in comics.
I know it's stupid but this is comics we are talking about. Unless you want to argue that highly skilled humans can normally fight WW (a being who can lift more than millions of tons and move limbs faster than light on a regular) and hold their own or reason why Superman's powers get ignore sometimes.

Ok I can try to post some scans of WW showing MA ability when I get home. But this is subjective and not quantifiable. So it would seem a waste of time to convince you. It takes common sense and some experience in fighting to actually see differences in fighting ability. I know about parrying, blocking, kicking, countering, and pressure points. WW has display those skills very well. Her agility is up there too.

Well I think Thor can as I favor the fighter and speed more. Maybe it's closer to 60-40 in Thor's favor IDK. At least you understand I'm not D.C. bias though. Just look at the characters who I favor (are they faster or are they more skilled?).

Originally posted by Golgo13
Sounds nasty, but if Dina can use her lasso, she wins. Plus this is just hth, anyway.

Does Herc get his mace to bash her skull in?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
No.

No he doesn't. He's Batman. Isn't that enough to prove his prowess?

WTF?? Are you serious? So we are making 4th wall sort of arguments now?

Originally posted by curryman
There's no matter of powerless or what you think your opinion is.

Any peak-human trying to block the punch of someone who can lift a million tons, should lose whatever it is they're trying to block with. That's just how it is. There's no low or high feat. If Thor ****ing punches Daredevil, it doesn't matter if Matt rolls with the blow, Thor's punching hard enough to send a car into orbit.

If the peak human lives, then the super-strong character is either holding back or it's just plain bullshit.

I think the point is the concept of holding back to that level is complete BS. It can't be done and still have any sort of value in terms of a display of skill. If I successfully spar with a baby, does that mean I am highly skilled? No, it means I sparred with a baby.

Originally posted by h1a8
When WW is going up against a top level fighter and her powers aren't being displayed then yes her powers are off. The same reasoning of why Superman's super speed and senses sometimes get shut off in comics. I know it's stupid but this is comics we are talking about.

It's stupid, but it's not so much comics as it is D.C. comics. The contradiction comes into play because of the Superman template that D.C. uses so often and what the did to Diana is a perfect example. Too often D.C. comics require the reader to abandon all reason and accept the BS patties it force feeds you.

At least you understand I'm not D.C. bias though. Just look at the characters who I favor (are they faster or are they more skilled?).

Um, looked at your sig pick lately? 🙄

Originally posted by Zack Fair
YouTube video

Argument invalid.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Um, looked at your sig pick lately? 🙄

Originally posted by Badabing
👆 Stop trolling. I'm tired of seeing your posts reported.

See that emoticon? That's hardly trolling my man. Sorry about any alerts, just making character based arguments.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
WTF?? Are you serious? So we are making 4th wall sort of arguments now?

Also, his feats dwarf Diana's.

Who cares about his sig, yo.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
See that emoticon? That's hardly trolling my man. Sorry about any alerts, just making character based arguments.

Get used to it. sneer