Cyborg Superman vs. The Silver Surfer

Originally posted by abhilegend
What are you babbling about now? Superman wasn't using super-speed there.

That was an all out superman. He would do the same to surfer. Who said surfer>superman or henshaw? Surfer fought henshaw directly and henshaw laughed at his puny attacks.

ONCE AGAIN, it was one blast of an unknown magnitude. Henshaw wanted to know if that was the extent of his power and obviously Surfer was not hitting him with an all out blast. There was no laughing anything off, for the second time. There are rules that prohibit what you are doing with respect to misrepresenting showings. Stop spinning, you are making yourself dizzy.

Oh, and how is it that you know he wasn't using super speed being that it would be patently stupid for him not to? I love how you and fans like you translate showings completely to your favor. Logically, it would make all kinds of sense for him to be using super speed against this formidible opponent as it would give him and advantage; however, if he didn't, then it's simply evidence that he doesn't use super speed in situations where he should. Thanks.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
ONCE AGAIN, it was one blast of an unknown magnitude. Henshaw wanted to know if that was the extent of his power and obviously Surfer was not hitting him with an all out blast. There was no laughing anything off. Stop spinning, you are making yourself dizzy.

Oh, and how is it that you know he wasn't using super speed being that it would be patently stupid for him not to? I love how you and fans like you translate showings completely to your favor. Logically, it would make all kinds of sense for him to be using super speed against this formidible opponent as it would give him and advantage; however, if he didn't, then it's simply evidence that he doesn't use super speed in situations where he should. Thanks.

Because he never used super-speed in that fight.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The closest to that was when Drax nearly choked Surfer out.

May I ask you why you think this is impressive? An artificially blood lusted super powerful Dumb Drax goes after and unsuspecting ally in Surfer as if he were Thanos, the person he was created to kill? This means what exactly?

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was surfer's standard "mine is power cosmic" all out blast which he did several times under Marz. Go home kid.

Because he never used super-speed in that fight.

You don't believe that is an all out blast because it obviously isn't and you need to stop being dishonest during debates. There is no more evidence that is an all out blast than Henshaw's blast was all out. Shameful.

You say he didn't use super speed, but it's baseless. If he was trying to win the fight and the other guy has super speed, why the hell would he not use super speed? Do you have an explanation or not this time around or do I have to ask a third time?

Finally, l'll tell you this once: I'm not a kid so stop referring to me as such.

Flight's boarding before I cud post my reply. BRB in 12 hrs :-/

Abhi's downplaying is disgusting

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
May I ask you why you think this is impressive? An artificially blood lusted super powerful Dumb Drax goes after and unsuspecting ally in Surfer as if he were Thanos, the person he was created to kill? This means what exactly?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
You don't believe that is an all out blast because it obviously isn't and you need to stop being dishonest during debates. There is no more evidence that is an all out blast than Henshaw's blast was all out. Shameful.

You say he didn't use super speed, but it's baseless. If he was trying to win the fight and the other guy has super speed, why the hell would he not use super speed? Do you have an explanation or not this time around or do I have to ask a third time?

Finally, l'll tell you this once: I'm not a kid so stop referring to me as such.

I said he didn't use super-speed because he never did. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand.

You are acting like a child for sure.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Abhi's downplaying is disgusting

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nothing actually. I was merely answering a question.
Do I have to post scans of surfer going all out after saying those same words?

I said he didn't use super-speed because he never did. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand.

You are acting like a child for sure.
Forgive me for not using calculator for every feat.

Except that the question was not asked of you and what you posted did not answer the question asked. Yet you refuse to answer my question as I predicted you wouldn't. Last shot, why would Superman not utilize a speed advantage against an otherwise formidible opponent? And remember, Superman has super smarts. The ball is in your court and insults don't count as answers.

"Do I have to post scans of surfer going all out after saying those same words?"

I don't know, do I have to post scans of Superman saying he is currently using super speed?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Except that the question was not asked of you and what you posted did not answer the question asked. Yet you refuse to answer my question as I predicted you wouldn't. Last shot, why would Superman not utilize a speed advantage against an otherwise formidible opponent? And remember, Superman has super smarts. The ball is in your court and insults don't count as answers.

"Do I have to post scans of surfer going all out after saying those same words?"

I don't know, do I have to post scans of Superman saying he is currently using super speed?

In your case, yes.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
Well you may as well dig up the scan with the Mexicans if were just starting the lowballing already.

The most interesting post in the entire thread and another incredible insight to the "Silver Surfer Battleboard" epidemic.

Surfer, easily.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ok. Because he didn't know about henshaw's upgrade.

In your case, yes.

😆

Thanks for answering the question. 😂

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
😆

Thanks for answering the question. 😂

Originally posted by abhilegend
So its now decided by who votes who? I'll pass.

No. You misunderstand my point. What I meant was that people here should look at the actual scans rather than believe anything either one of us says and just judge from there.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was a totally off panel fight after which Superman, Power Girl and Supergirl threw Henshaw at SBP while Cyborg said that superman nearly killed him. Its in Tales of sinestro corps: Superman prime.

Then you'll have no problem pointing out the issue number where the fight was either concluded or referenced in?

Originally posted by abhilegend
There was no upgrade in annihilation

Really?

As Galactus readies the Surfer with new power.

Soooo are we just gonna disregard the whole "new power" thing as indicated by the synopsis of the previous issue?

Or is there some sort of unique "interpretation" of that whole synopsis that we're all missing here?

Originally posted by abhilegend
and that doesn't mean his previous showings don't count. They absolutely do. Caiera oneshotted him on Sakaar IIRC.

I disagree, if Hulk is upgraded, we can no longer use his Mr Fixit days when demonstrating his low showings.

An upgrade doesn't exclude all a character's showings. IT DOES, however, mean that we need to determine what his new "average" is from within the upgrade period and contrast that with his old showings to see how far up he's gone.

So far, post-Annihilation upgrade Surfer has had very little low showings and many good ones.

When did Caiera one shot him?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because he was actually KTFO in that story as seen when Cyborg had him hang limply in his construct. You don't have to read any other story. Superman was KTFO and it was explicitly shown here.

http://static.comicvine.com/api/image/2467054-3.png

Not the first time a character has been shown as "KO'd" at the end of an issue. What's important is the issue after that showcases what happens next.

Like I said, I'm sure you won't mind giving me the issue number where what happened after the aftermath and rematch after this fight with Henshaw was referenced so that I can take a look at it myself?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Enough all out to nearly kill a guy who previously curbstomped him? How about that?

This is comics. Superheroes get KTFO'd and come back right after all the time. This happens with Thor a lot, this happens with Superman and this happens with the Surfer, too. Ironically, this happens to Surfer in the very Lunatik scan you just provided in this very thread. It occurs when characters underestimate their enemies or when they fight a character who is a peer but get hit with a swarm of hits first.

It DOES NOT, however, prove that they were in any way vastly outclassed or that the enemy was far stronger than them without some specific written-in context. Which wasn't present in the Superman vs Henshaw fight in the scan you provided. Especially IF Superman came back and "nearly killed him" after.

Which is why the issue where the second fight they had took place is so important and which is why I am asking where the issue number is so I can take a look at it myself.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer was captured because he was drained.

I actually read this comic before. This was back in the time where I actually collected Surfer comics. I don't remember Surfer "getting drained" at the end of the comic prior to his capture. Admittedly, I could be wrong (as it has been literally decades), so it would be nice if you provide the scan at the end of Silver Surfer vol. 3 No.11 so people can judge for themselves what happened?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not because he was weakened before that. WTF are you talking about? If you are talking about his experience with Dynamo city, that was a different tech and surfer was completely drained there.

Different tech, but by the Surfer's own words it felt similar to how he was drained before:

"Haven't felt like this since Dynamo City..."

Originally posted by abhilegend
Drax who is powered by cosmic energies, completely no sold this draining. Make sure you've actually read the comic before start spewing nonsense.

As I'm not exactly sure which instance of "draining" you're referencing here, I would like to request a clarification of this and a scan of what you're referencing to. And it would be nice if we kept name-calling out of this.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That was the first time that alien tech was used on surfer and it wasn't with prep.

OF COURSE it was with prep. They knew exactly who they were facing and prepared a specific attack that they KNEW would work against him. Anyone who read the scans you provided would actually determine that right away. They came in specifically knowing WHO their target was and HOW to disable him.

Unless you're suggesting that these 3 opponents suddenly just decided to use a specific coordinated tactic with specific tech out of some random guess that it could work against a specific opponent?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not to mention he didn't resist shit there, he was completely drained there. He just used a diversion to fire all his energy in the weapon which caused a feedback. It was also some random alien tech, nothing to brag about.

Where did he resist or adapt at anything?

None of that happened the way you're saying it did. In fact, here's a scan of the whole scene that YOU have (that you must have forgotten to include):

He was being drained, he powered thru (aka resisted it) the drain (as anyone would notice the "drain aura" that kept him down broke PRIOR to him deflecting the weapon) long enough to deflect the weapon which in turn, hit one of the mercs (or whatever they are) which gave him a small opening and he used that small opening to neutralize the drain completely (aka adapting to it) by overloading their devices.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Have you even read the story or just making shit up like usual?

You know as well as I that I DO NOT make shit up and I very well read all the evidence provided with a high level of scrutiny.

Now, we've always been cool Abhi. And in all our debates we've managed to kept personal attacks and antagonistic behavior outside of our debates. Would it be ok if we continued this behavior?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because he tore them from his skin and Iron man let go of him because he had enough energy.

Which means what exactly? The drain did little to slow him down for long and my point was that this is bad evidence in arguing for a "Henshaw wins via draining" victory.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Your excuses for surfer are really laughable.

What you call "excuses", I call "context". Context being the important parts of the story that actually explains what happens that we don't ignore just so we can come up with conclusions that we want.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He's an energy being in a shell.

An energy being is normally defined as "a being composed entirely of energy". The fact that it has been referenced countless times that the "silver glaze" actually coats his once-human body and that he's actually managed to remove the glaze before (his little scene with Alicia for example) and that he's been drawn more like "liquid metal" on more than a few occasions (Annihilation, In thy Name) seem to point to him being a "physical being with an energy bloodstream".

But this is really just semantics, if you want to call him an energy being, hey go on ahead. But how exactly does this help your argument?

Edit. ...and that he's been drawn more like "liquid metal" on more than a few occasions (Annihilators, In thy Name) seem to point to him being...

Originally posted by Nibedicus
[B]No. You misunderstand my point. What I meant was that people here should look at the actual scans rather than believe anything either one of us says and just judge from there.

Then you'll have no problem pointing out the issue number where the fight was either concluded or referenced in?

Really?

As Galactus readies the Surfer with new power.

which was confirmed here

You will ask what was taken away from surfer by galactus? None of his powers.

Just his ability to roam space/time.

It wasn't a power up in any sense or form.

Soooo are we just gonna disregard the whole "new power" thing as indicated by the synopsis of the previous issue?

Or is there some sort of unique "interpretation" of that whole synopsis that we're all missing here?

I disagree, if Hulk is upgraded, we can no longer use his Mr Fixit days when demonstrating his low showings.

An upgrade doesn't exclude all a character's showings. IT DOES, however, mean that we need to determine what his new "average" is from within the upgrade period and contrast that with his old showings to see how far up he's gone.

So far, post-Annihilation upgrade Surfer has had very little low showings and many good ones.

When did Caiera one shot him?

Not the first time a character has been shown as "KO'd" at the end of an issue.

What's important is the issue after that showcases what happens next.

Like I said, I'm sure you won't mind giving me the issue number where what happened after the aftermath and rematch after this fight with Henshaw was referenced so that I can take a look at it myself?

This is comics. Superheroes get KTFO'd and come back right after all the time.

This happens with Thor a lot, this happens with Superman and this happens with the Surfer, too.

Ironically, this happens to Surfer in the very Lunatik scan you just provided in this very thread.

It occurs when characters underestimate their enemies or when they fight a character who is a peer but get hit with a swarm of hits first.

It DOES NOT, however, prove that they were in any way vastly outclassed or that the enemy was far stronger than them without some specific written-in context.

Which wasn't present in the Superman vs Henshaw fight in the scan you provided. Especially IF Superman came back and "nearly killed him" after.

Which is why the issue where the second fight they had took place is so important and which is why I am asking where the issue number is so I can take a look at it myself.

I actually read this comic before. This was back in the time where I actually collected Surfer comics. I don't remember Surfer "getting drained" at the end of the comic prior to his capture. Admittedly, I could be wrong (as it has been literally decades), so it would be nice if you provide the scan at the end of Silver Surfer vol. 3 No.11 so people can judge for themselves what happened?

Different tech, but by the Surfer's own words it felt similar to how he was drained before:

"Haven't felt like this since Dynamo City..."

As I'm not exactly sure which instance of "draining" you're referencing here, I would like to request a clarification of this and a scan of what you're referencing to. And it would be nice if we kept name-calling out of this.

OF COURSE it was with prep. They knew exactly who they were facing and prepared a specific attack that they KNEW would work against him.

Anyone who read the scans you provided would actually determine that right away. They came in specifically knowing WHO their target was and HOW to disable him.

Unless you're suggesting that these 3 opponents suddenly just decided to use a specific coordinated tactic with specific tech out of some random guess that it could work against a specific opponent?

None of that happened the way you're saying it did. In fact, here's a scan of the whole scene that YOU have (that you must have forgotten to include):

He was being drained, he powered thru (aka resisted it) the drain (as anyone would notice the "drain aura" that kept him down broke PRIOR to him deflecting the weapon) long enough to deflect the weapon which in turn, hit one of the mercs (or whatever they are) which gave him a small opening and he used that small opening to neutralize the drain completely (aka adapting to it) by overloading their devices.

You know as well as I that I DO NOT make shit up and I very well read all the evidence provided with a high level of scrutiny.

Now, we've always been cool Abhi. And in all our debates we've managed to kept personal attacks and antagonistic behavior outside of our debates. Would it be ok if we continued this behavior?

Which means what exactly? The drain did little to slow him down for long and my point was that this is bad evidence in arguing for a "Henshaw wins via draining" victory.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/StarMasters3017.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/StarMasters3019.jpg

What you call "excuses", I call "context". Context being the important parts of the story that actually explains what happens that we don't ignore just so we can come up with conclusions that we want.

An energy being is normally defined as "a being composed entirely of energy". The fact that it has been referenced countless times that the "silver glaze" actually coats his once-human body and that he's actually managed to remove the glaze before (his little scene with Alicia for example) and that he's been drawn more like "liquid metal" on more than a few occasions (Annihilation, In thy Name) seem to point to him being a "physical being with an energy bloodstream".

But this is really just semantics, if you want to call him an energy being, hey go on ahead. But how exactly does this help your argument? [/B]

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't believe in "majority fallacy", neither should you.

How is:

"What I meant was that people here should look at the actual scans rather than believe anything either one of us says and just judge from there"

Seen as some form of appeal to numbers when all it means is that since it is obvious that there is no way to convince you of anything that would look bad for you debate for regardless of logic presented (which isn't really a bad thing as a lot of character fans tend to behave that way), the whole point of why we argue in a public forum is to have others view our points and to judge for themselves who is right or wrong. Otherwise, we should just PM each other and debate in an infinite loop til we're both blue in the face.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That was the conclusion to that fight. There was a rematch where Superman nearly killed Cyborg off panel.

In this scene superman was totally KTFO. There is no follow up of this fight on panel. Some time after that superman recovers and nearly kills Cyborg, all off panel.

Tales of sinestro corps: Superman prime 1.

I read the issue you pointed to. There is absolutely no way you can say that Superman was completely KTFO here. All that happened here is that there is a scene that Superman was KO'd momentarily and then the next reference of the fight is Cyborg getting tooled into SBP nearly KOd and saying that "Almost... he almost... did it...". There was never any indication of Superman getting KO'd for any time period of time.

And the fact that Henshaw was aiming to "Have the satisfaction of destroying" or "annihilating" Superman and didn't have the time to do either seems to point away to Superman being KOd for any amount of time.

At this point, all you're doing is guessing what happened in between.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Respect threads are bad for health and that's just a bio. Here is the actual scene where Surfer denied the power and was only "restored". "I can undo what was done in anger. I can restore you". "I can heal you. Renew your will. Grant you new power. Take away the remorse". To which surfer told him a big fat NO and Galactus just restored him.

which was confirmed here

You will ask what was taken away from surfer by galactus? None of his powers.

Just his ability to roam space/time.

It wasn't a power up in any sense or form.

A bio is dismissed when it contradicts the actual issue.

Wow. That is a complete and utter butchering of what the scene is saying. I'm sorry, but that is just... wow.

Firstly, when Galactus says:

"I can heal you, renew your will, grant you new power, take away your remorse..."

And the Surfer interrupting him as he says "take away your remorse.." with:

"No. Give me the will to do what must be done. Let my remorse define me."

Was the Surfer saying NO to Galactus taking away his remorse. That's it. He did not say no to everything except the will part, otherwise, he'd have said no to the healing part as well (which btw happened).

Your interpretation of the whole scene is almost nonsensical. You're putting up a scan from the classic era where Galactus erected a barrier to keep the Surfer stuck on Earth, a barrier he has long since managed to breach and escape, as the scene referenced by "the power" that is restored to the Surfer. That would make the mention of the term "power" as well as the entire scene meaningless, pointless and senseless. And would make the whole sequence of Galactus needing him to be "restored" in order to stop the threat before them completely pointless.

My interpretation is that the scene is a soft "retcon" of the classic era notion that the Surfer's power wasn't diminished in his banishment to Earth. That in Annihilation, his full power and will pre-betrayal was restored in order to "deal with an upcoming threat" by Galactus.

This is then corroborated by the scans you and I provided about the "restoring" as well as "granting" of new power. Common sense would allow one to choose the correct interpretation from the ones we provided. Again, I'll have the unbiased readers of this forum come up with whose version makes more sense.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You are talking about a different version of hulk here. Fixit's showings can't be applied to savage hulk because its a different hulk altogether.

An "upgraded" character IS a different version of a character. Spiderman when he got the black symbiote armor was also "upgraded" and we do not use Classic 5-ton strength Thing to determine what his lowest showings are now that he is 75+-Cl100 in strength.

Originally posted by abhilegend
How about panther armbar? Or in one of his best showings against BRB, he was driven away by some random ships?

There was context to the BP scene. As confirmed by the writer. Just because you refuse to acknowledge what the writer says and want to have your version of how things happen overrule what the actual writer intended doesn't change this.

How is getting momentarily stunned when ambushed by Skuttlebutt right after he beat up on BRB a low showing? Or are you referring to him getting chased away by literally an armada of ships?

Originally posted by abhilegend
When he was turned into Silver Savage by Skaar I believe.

Scans? I don't recall him ever getting one shotted there.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And then they nearly kill the guy who curbstomped them? It happened rarely. Surfer bluffed Lunatik when he found him evenly matched that he would die if he ever leaves the planet. After that we saw Lunatik on a space ship just fine. Superman knew just how dangerous Henshaw is.

In this case there is no context. All out superman is a different beast. He can oneshot KO people like Despero who previously KOED superman and captain marvel together.

My point was that the hero getting KO'd then coming back on the next issue happens in comics all the time. It's a common storytelling tool. And how do you even know that Lunatik was bluffed? Do you have a scan proving that? A lot of things can happen off panel.

Of course there was context. I read the issue you pointed me to, there was never any indication that Superman went "all out", there was never any indication that Superman was KOd for any period of time. You are literally just guessing what happened in between.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Here is the end of the last issue. Surfer was drained and defeated off panel.

He wasn't ever shown to be drained/defeated the way you make it sound. He was ambushed and defeated off panel, however, but since it's never shown, you're just guessing again.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Draining feels similar.

It was from a random space ship with no relation to dynamo city where those drainers came from.

Which is my point. Different tech, but draining still "felt the same" to the Surfer. Draining he was able to power thru and resist.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm just calling what your reasoning actually is. Nothing name calling here.

Actually, "make shit up" is an accusatory post and implies that I lied about what I say, pretty much name calling. Even when I referenced everything I said using your own scans. Perhaps you didn't realize it at the time so I'm willing to let it go. But let's just keep this debate purely logical shall we?

Again, we can play the whole accusation game but, like I said, I always approach you with respect and would like the same treatment.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No they were not prepped at all. All they knew was that somebody else was going there and they packed their gears without even knowing who he was.

This is why I said that read the comic before running your mouth.

Where does it say that they weren't prepared for the Surfer? They were given a target and told that the target would have someone with them. Then they walk off and had the time to do whatever they wanted off panel w/c includes prepping for their enemy like any smart merc would.

Tho, I will concede that no such proof exist to prove one or the other.

Regardless to whether they were prepped or not, however, it is shown is that the 3 approached the Surfer with the exact attack needed to weaken him (which can be chalked up to dumb luck or prep) and the Surfer managed to bust out just fine.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. They were doing it for everyone else too. That was their MO.

Scans?

Originally posted by abhilegend
I uploaded it for a reason and no I didn't forgot it.

So you didn't forget to NOT include it? Ok then...

Originally posted by abhilegend
He didn't do any of that. He used a small distraction to shoot all of his energies when they thought he was completely drained and took away all the weapons which were draining him here which gave him a chance to recover and overload the weapon of a single mercenary which could siphon only an increment of his power. Its the fault of the siphoning machine, not adapting by surfer.

There was never an indication on panel that they took away the draining from him. I mean, why would they even do that? They have to be the most incompetent mercs of all to WILLINGLY take away the weapons that was keeping their target helpless?

Hell, look at the art:

He's about to shoot the Surfer in the head and the drain-aura was still there the whole time. As soon as Surfer says "No!", the aura dissipates. And you would have me believe that the mercs somehow in between him about to shoot the Surfer, turned off their draining weapons??

No, the art and common sense would tell us that they didn't take the draining weapons from him at all. Surfer broke free on his own and deflected the weapon from him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And that's what your problem is. You scrutinize too much.

There is no such thing as too much scrutiny. If we want to be completely accurate, we need to make sure we look at all the information provided. The alternative is to simply guess on what the right interpretation is and allow biases to cloud our perceptions.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Only if you read the comics before commenting and making baseless theories.

How can I scrutinize too much and be baseless at the same time? To be baseless, one has to have no foundation and opted to not scrutinize the information provided. It's either one or the other.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh really?

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/StarMasters3017.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/StarMasters3019.jpg

What does this have to do with anything? My whole reply was about the Iron Man scan being provided did nothing to prove a "Henshaw wins via draining" argument.

This new scene just shows that any character can be beaten if caught by surprise. The fact that the same team seems to have captured BRB, Thor and Gladiator as well kinda makes all this kinda pointless.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its just an excuse.

Understanding context is not an excuse. You can keep repeating "excuse" til your face is blue but won't make it the case.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The scene with alicia has been misrepresented many times. It was just mimicking a human form. Surfer never removed his glaze. That's not what surfer is. He is pure energy under the glaze and when Clea pierced him with a magic dagger he bleed energy and nothing else.

You have anything that proves he was simply mimicing a human form and not shifting his molecules take human form or to remove the glaze?

The Surfer has been portrayed many different ways, liquid metal, metal glaze powered by energy, etc. but what has been consistent is that the glaze that covers him is what primarily defines how he is as a "being". He is NOT composed entirely of energy as what an "energy being" is. As even if he is pure energy inside the glaze, for the purposes of this entire debate, the glaze is what's important as the glaze itself is what he uses primarily to interact with his surroundings physically (to touch and feel), is what protects him from attacks and what needs to be breached before any harm is inflicted to the Surfer. And the glaze itself is still physical in nature and not energy.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because Cyborg has adapted to such a being before and oneshotted him. Eradicator.

Are you talking about the time Henshaw attacked Eradicator from behind? If not, scans pls to know context.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Where does it say that they weren't prepared for the Surfer?

Are you talking about the time Henshaw attacked Eradicator from behind? If not, scans pls to know context.

Lets look at some of other draining instances

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/Defendersv2008-08.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/FantasticFour072-19.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/FantasticFour072-20.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-17.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3027-12.jpg

How many you can find an excuse for? Also Henshaw is completely capable of harnessing energy with his powers, greater than Saint Walker and Starman combined

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Henshaw1.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/Henshaw2.jpg