Originally posted by NibedicusThis means nothing at all save you giving an excuse to type away.
How is:"What I meant was that people here should look at the actual scans rather than believe anything either one of us says and just judge from there"
Seen as some form of appeal to numbers when all it means is that since it is obvious that there is no way to convince you of anything that would look bad for you debate for regardless of logic presented (which isn't really a bad thing as a lot of character fans tend to behave that way), the whole point of why we argue in a public forum is to have others view our points and to judge for themselves who is right or wrong. Otherwise, we should just PM each other and debate in an infinite loop til we're both blue in the face.
I read the issue you pointed to. There is absolutely no way you can say that Superman was completely KTFO here. All that happened here is that there is a scene that Superman was KO'd momentarily and then the next reference of the fight is Cyborg getting tooled into SBP nearly KOd and saying that "Almost... he almost... did it...". There was never any indication of Superman getting KO'd for any time period of time.Post all the scans that show that superman was only momentarily KOED. I would be waiting.
And the fact that Henshaw was aiming to "Have the satisfaction of destroying" or "annihilating" Superman and didn't have the time to do either seems to point away to Superman being KOd for any amount of time.Really? Killing superman is A LOT tougher than knocking him out. Ask doomsday.
At this point, all you're doing is guessing what happened in between.And you are doing what exactly?
Wow. That is a complete and utter butchering of what the scene is saying. I'm sorry, but that is just... wow.Lulz, just lulz.
Firstly, when Galactus says:LOLWUT? Surfer said that to granting him new power. Notice how he addressed every part in a different sentence and NO was in response to giving him new power."I can heal you, renew your will, grant you new power, take away your remorse..."
And the Surfer interrupting him as he says "take away your remorse.." with:
"No. Give me the will to do what must be done. Let my remorse define me."
Was the Surfer saying NO to Galactus taking away his remorse. That's it. He did not say no to everything except the will part, otherwise, he'd have said no to the healing part as well (which btw happened).
Your interpretation of the whole scene is almost nonsensical. You're putting up a scan from the classic era where Galactus erected a barrier to keep the Surfer stuck on Earth, a barrier he has long since managed to breach and escape, as the scene referenced by "the power" that is restored to the Surfer.[quote] At this point you show the ignorance. That scan is from 1990 from a retelling. Surfer never breached the barrier by his own power but once and that completely drained him. He used a trick to get away from earth. [quote]That would make the mention of the term "power" as well as the entire scene meaningless, pointless and senseless. And would make the whole sequence of Galactus needing him to be "restored" in order to stop the threat before them completely pointless.It was meant to make a badass out of a pacifist character, not give him new powers. Galactus never removed any power from surfer but his ability to roam space/time.
http://i.imgur.com/KTMRqZW.jpg
My interpretation is that the scene is a soft "retcon" of the classic era notion that the Surfer's power wasn't diminished in his banishment to Earth.No it wasn't.
That in Annihilation, his full power and will pre-betrayal was restored in order to "deal with an upcoming threat" by Galactus.Nope. He was made a cold-blooded planet seeker again and that's it.
This is then corroborated by the scans you and I provided about the "restoring" as well as "granting" of new power.You are wrong again.
Common sense would allow one to choose the correct interpretation from the ones we provided. Again, I'll have the unbiased readers of this forum come up with whose version makes more sense.Its agreed on several forums that surfer wasn't upgraded in Annihilation not just on KMC.
An "upgraded" character IS a different version of a character.If only surfer was upgraded!
Spiderman when he got the black symbiote armor was also "upgraded" and we do not use Classic 5-ton strength Thing to determine what his lowest showings are now that he is 75+-Cl100 in strength.Meaningless. Surfer wasn't upgraded. Your interpretation is yours only.
There was context to the BP scene. As confirmed by the writer. Just because you refuse to acknowledge what the writer says and want to have your version of how things happen overrule what the actual writer intended doesn't change this.Mcduffie was apologizing. Writer say those all the time.
How is getting momentarily stunned when ambushed by Skuttlebutt right after he beat up on BRB a low showing?I posted the wrong scan but that works too.
Or are you referring to him getting chased away by literally an armada of ships?That's the scan which I don't have atm.
Scans? I don't recall him ever getting one shotted there.Again not available atm.
My point was that the hero getting KO'd then coming back on the next issue happens in comics all the time. It's a common storytelling tool.List all the examples for surfer.
And how do you even know that Lunatik was bluffed? Do you have a scan proving that?Lunatik appeared in Drax's series ON EARTH later.
A lot of things can happen off panel.You mean Lunatik with no power other than strength somehow freed his life force bonded with the planet without any explanation? Haha.
Of course there was context. I read the issue you pointed me to, there was never any indication that Superman went "all out", there was never any indication that Superman was KOd for any period of time. You are literally just guessing what happened in between.You are doing a fine job yourself. At least I have some basis presented by the issue. Superman himself said that he never killed Henshaw because he never tried really. That meant he tried this time and went all out, nearly killing him. Your whole argument is "Wah, cyborg only momentarily KOED superman. That proves he was so weak that superman in return killed him".
He wasn't ever shown to be drained/defeated the way you make it sound. He was ambushed and defeated off panel, however, but since it's never shown, you're just guessing again.So he was just there ready to be drained? He wasn't ambushed, Reptyl attacked him after announcing himself and surfer went down by draining seeing how he curbstomped an evolved and more powerful Reptyl.
Which is my point. Different tech, but draining still "felt the same" to the Surfer. Draining he was able to power thru and resist.He didn't resist shit. You are just throwing excuses left and right.
Actually, "make shit up" is an accusatory post and implies that I lied about what I say, pretty much name calling. Even when I referenced everything I said using your own scans. Perhaps you didn't realize it at the time so I'm willing to let it go. But let's just keep this debate purely logical shall we?Not untill you read the things before commenting on it.
Again, we can play the whole accusation game but, like I said, I always approach you with respect and would like the same treatment.Respect must be earned and you're doing nothing to earn it atm. I respect your opinion but if you wouldn't read the source material, I can't respect your opinion about it. Its nothing personal.
