Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
ROTS Sidious>Plagueis>/= TPM SidiousI'd say from ROTS on, Sidious is decidedly above his old master.
We can also safely assume that Plagueis had already crossed ROTS Sidious, simply because he was vastly more knowledgeable and he had been an apprentice for over a human life span.
Originally posted by darth venki
We can also safely assume that Plagueis had already crossed ROTS Sidious, simply because he was vastly more knowledgeable and he had been an apprentice for over a human life span.
Originally posted by Vensai
Luceno stated that Plagueis could have undermined his apprentice in TPM, indicating they were fairly close in power.
A RoTS Sidious with greater access to Plagueis holocrons and other resources would have surpassed him by then. And DE Sidious would just stomp.
Well, we cannot prove that, since all the holocrons and text in Aborah were already studied by Plagueis and given to Sidious. By ROTS it may not be possible.
Regarding DE Sidious, Yes as of now Plagueis will lose, but we can never know if Plagueis achieved a greater power if he was alive too.
Originally posted by darth venki
Well, we cannot prove that, since all the holocrons and text in Aborah were already studied by Plagueis and given to Sidious. By ROTS it may not be possible.Regarding DE Sidious, Yes as of now Plagueis will lose, but we can never know if Plagueis achieved a greater power if he was alive too.
Originally posted by Vensai
George Lucas considered Sidious to be the most powerful Sith lord by RoTS.
"You have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor,” says Lucas in The Making of Episode III
Well, every novel's major parts are approved by Lucas. And it is said that Lucas had lot of inputs in the Plagueis novel through Roffman. So If Luceno says he possesses the ultimate power and was the most powerful sith ever. Lucas obviously confirmed it to be published.
More over Lucas was adamant Plagueis die as in the book and by no other means.
So it can be considered that Lucas contradicts when he approved the Plagueis novel.
Originally posted by darth venki
Well, every novel's major parts are approved by Lucas. And it is said that Lucas had lot of inputs in the Plagueis novel through Roffman. So If Luceno says he possesses the ultimate power and was the most powerful sith ever. Lucas obviously confirmed it to be published.More over Lucas was adamant Plagueis die as in the book and by no other means.
So it can be considered that Lucas contradicts when he approved the Plagueis novel.
Originally posted by Vensai
Sigh. Do you have evidence in quotes?
The point of the Bane Sith was for the apprentice to surpass the master. Besides, Plagueis' impressive but limited feats does not mean he is a sabers or force user on RoTS Sidious' level.
1. The point of Bane Sith is to fight one on one and so the stonger will take the mantle. Sidious did not do that. As for the quotes its there in the back cover.
2. In the novel, Sidious says he and his master are more powerful than the most poweful Jedi before TPM, obviously Yoda was alive. So Plagueis > Yoda..
n if Yoda = Sidious.. rest is history
Originally posted by darth venki
1. The point of Bane Sith is to fight one on one and so the stonger will take the mantle. Sidious did not do that. As for the quotes its there in the back cover.2. In the novel, Sidious says he and his master are more powerful than the most poweful Jedi before TPM, obviously Yoda was alive. So Plagueis > Yoda..
n if Yoda = Sidious.. rest is history
You're probably the only one who considers Plagueis to be stronger than RoTS Sidious.
Originally posted by Vensai
1. True. But by feats Sidious in RoTS is better than Plagueis. In sabers he held his own against Yoda and in force powers he dominated Maul and Savage. Plagueis' fight against Venamis hardly showcased power of this level.
2. You're using ABC logic and Sith tend to be arrogant.You're probably the only one who considers Plagueis to be stronger than RoTS Sidious.
Sidious of ROTS is a blur while he battles. Plaguies was also a blur to 114D's photo receptors, and it can actually dodge bullets. This was b4 Plagueis found Sidious.
Well, I am a Sidious fan, but the Plagueis novel has me leaning toward Plagueis.
And there are others like me on other forums 🙂 speculating 🙂
Originally posted by darth venki
Sidious of ROTS is a blur while he battles. Plaguies was also a blur to 114D's photo receptors, and it can actually dodge bullets. This was b4 Plagueis found Sidious.Well, I am a Sidious fan, but the Plagueis novel has me leaning toward Plagueis.
And there are others like me on other forums 🙂 speculating 🙂
An example:
"But strong as he had become, Maul found himself in awe of Sidious. The Sith Lord was astonishingly fast and efficient, and the Force flowed through him effortlessly. His sabers stabbed and slashed through the smallest hole in an opponent’s guard, his movements never carried him a millimeter out of position, and he could sense every attack Maul and Savage made before it developed."
Just to showcase what I was saying before. Qui-Gon moves in a blur:
In a blur of motion, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan hurried to Tiin's aid, spinning and leaping in the face of the onslaught.
-Cloak of Deception
Maul is faster than Qui-Gon:
His attacker closed with him again, forcing him back, striking at him from every angle. Even without knowing anything else, Qui-Gon knew this man was trained in the fighting arts of a Jedi, a skilled and dangerous adversary. Worse, he was younger, quicker, and stronger than Qui-Gon, and he was gaining ground rapidly. The Jedi Master blocked him again and again, but could not find an opening that would provide any chance of escape.
-The Phantom Menace
Maul can't even see Sidious:
The lightsaber whirls in the air, twirling, held in my Master's hand. I can't track it, it moves so fast. But I know it's heading for me.
Lord Sidious moves faster than my eye can follow. I smell heat and smoke. The laser traces the outline of my body, my face, my hands. The buzz is loud in my ear. One flinch, one involuntary twitch of a muscle, and I am dead.
-Episode I Journal: Darth Maul
Originally posted by Vensai
An example:
"But strong as he had become, Maul found himself in awe of Sidious. The Sith Lord was astonishingly fast and efficient, and the Force flowed through him effortlessly. His sabers stabbed and slashed through the smallest hole in an opponent’s guard, his movements never carried him a millimeter out of position, and he could sense every attack Maul and Savage made before it developed."
Yes definitely there are feats of Sidious really awesome.
Plagueis crushed Tenebrous with the cave roof before even Tenebrous knew what had hit him. Now Tenebrous was a dark lord of the sith near the end of Bane line, NOT Maul.
But all Plagueis got was one book. So up untill TPM Plagueis was more powerful,
but after that if Sidious could gain so much power, Plagueis (if alive) would have too.
Originally posted by darth venki
Yes definitely there are feats of Sidious really awesome.
Plagueis crushed Tenebrous with the cave roof before even Tenebrous knew what had hit him. Now Tenebrous was a dark lord of the sith near the end of Bane line, NOT Maul.But all Plagueis got was one book. So up untill TPM Plagueis was more powerful,
but after that if Sidious could gain so much power, Plagueis (if alive) would have too.
When the Sith finally emerged from a thousand years of watching and waiting, they numbered—in accordance with the tradition set down by Darth Bane—only two. The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious, an ice-cold, diabolically calculating genius equipped with the strength of the dark side of the Force, as well as an enormous wealth of Sith artifacts, equipment, and knowledge.
--Taken from The Dark Side Sourcebook