Mace Windu Vs Maul Bros

Started by pencilcrayon6 pages

Mace was a Jedi Master already by 44 BBY. He's likely mastered Vaapad as well. Dooku left the order after TPM. He didn't blitz Tyranus, who is a dark sider at that point.

His amp was from at least 3 sources I think. It was a one time amp that he otherwise will not have against any other character.

His secret love for the republic was being controlled by a Sith. ( His own inner darkness went through the roof upon hearing those words from the Jedi knight )
Palpatine's own speed and power ( drawing power from him is much greater than anything he'd get from the two brothers )
Anakin's fear ( "You think the fear you feel is mine?" )

His amp allowed him to give off "dozens" of after images from the perspective of someone who can see sublight ships in slow motion. Meaning he has generated at least 24 after images from the perspective of Anakin. Anakin is one of the fastest characters of any generation.

This is far beyond anything he's ever done before and yet he could only match his opponent.
His opponent also had to slow down due to the slippery permacrete by shifting some of his force powered speed to force powered grip. Seems like he beat his opponent due to this factor and the above.

He's not going to be fighting at hundreds of times faster than sublight ship speeds when against the brothers. That's how fast one would need to be to generate that many after images respectively to another being.
He also didn't notice the other Jedi die until after he tapped into one time amp.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
He's not going to be fighting at hundreds of times faster than sublight ship speeds when against the brothers.

Or ever.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
No... Jedi fight with the intention to disarm, ie not hurt their opponent. Whether they're sparring or fighting is irrelevant since they're not restricting themselves more when the former occcurs in comparison to when the latter occurs.

Still avoided the points about age and not being able to use Vaapad. Concession accepted on those points.

Again, you're either too stupid or being obtuse. When you're in a life and death situation.... THAT CAN CAUSE FEELINGS OF NERVOUSNESS... ANXIOUS... TENSE... all which can have an effect on your performance CORRECT? When you're simply sparring you don't have those thoughts and feelings of concern so you can fight loose. However, that isn't close to the same as how a life and death fight would go.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Mace was a Jedi Master already by 44 BBY. He's likely mastered Vaapad as well. Dooku left the order after TPM. He didn't blitz Tyranus, who is a dark sider at that point.

His amp was from at least 3 sources I think. It was a one time amp that he otherwise will not have against any other character.

His secret love for the republic was being controlled by a Sith. ( His own inner darkness went through the roof upon hearing those words from the Jedi knight )
Palpatine's own speed and power ( drawing power from him is much greater than anything he'd get from the two brothers )
Anakin's fear ( "You think the fear you feel is mine?" )

His amp allowed him to give off "dozens" of after images from the perspective of someone who can see sublight ships in slow motion. Meaning he has generated at least 24 after images from the perspective of Anakin. Anakin is one of the fastest characters of any generation.

This is far beyond anything he's ever done before and yet he could only match his opponent.
His opponent also had to slow down due to the slippery permacrete by shifting some of his force powered speed to force powered grip. Seems like he beat his opponent due to this factor and the above.

He's not going to be fighting at hundreds of times faster than sublight ship speeds when against the brothers. That's how fast one would need to be to generate that many after images respectively to another being.
He also didn't notice the other Jedi die until after he tapped into one time amp.

Post the proof to support your claims... Post the proof he had mastered Vaapad and Shatterpoint? Post the proof he was just as good then as he was by the time of ROTS. There is zero evidence to support he was as good. He only got better as the clone wars and time passed not worse. Not only that.. even if he had mastered vaapad (which I've seen no proof of) at the time of the sparring he wouldn't be able to use it since Dooku was a light sider. Thus, it's a moot point. He had mastered it at this point and even if he did.. he wouldn't be able to use it against Dooku in sparring. Yet, he will be abl eto use against the Bros...

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wrong. They fight to disarm by still hitting them with their lightsabers. Many of the 'disarming' techniques the Jedi Path mention do so literally.

Marks of Contact:

Shiim: Light wounds delivered with the edge of the blade.

Shiak: Piercing an opponent with the blade.

Sun djem: Destroy the weapon.

Cho mai: Sever the hand.

Cho sun: Sever the arm.

Cho mak: Sever a limb.

Mou kei: Sever multiple limbs.

Sai cha: Decapitate.

Sai tok: Cut in half.

Those are the ways Jedi are taught to fight. Notice that only one doesn't wound the opponent. The only thing it says is that Jedi should try not to kill. They fight to wound, disable or cripple, killing only when necessary.


Jedi fight with modified sabers when they spar though.

Even a modified saber can break bones if you smack someone with it hard enough, and can seriously burn skin.

Nah, you can modify its level pretty nicely.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Even a modified saber can break bones if you smack someone with it hard enough, and can seriously burn skin.

I'm sure they will risk that much while sparring, especially with the futuristic medical facilities available to them. Unless the Jedi are complete wuss bags.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Post the proof to support your claims... Post the proof he had mastered Vaapad and Shatterpoint? Post the proof he was just as good then as he was by the time of ROTS. There is zero evidence to support he was as good. He only got better as the clone wars and time passed not worse. Not only that.. even if he had mastered vaapad (which I've seen no proof of) at the time of the sparring he wouldn't be able to use it since Dooku was a light sider. Thus, it's a moot point. He had mastered it at this point and even if he did.. he wouldn't be able to use it against Dooku in sparring. Yet, he will be abl eto use against the Bros...

He hasn't left the order until around the end Darth Plagueis ( which is after TPM ).

Dozens of after images from Anakin's perspective

"Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind—the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once."

Mace was no longer restricting himself

"Anakin could feel how the Force fed upon the shadow's murderous exaltation; he could feel fury spray into the Force though some poisonous abscess had crested in both their hearts. There was no Jedi restraint here. Mace Windu was cutting loose."

He's drawing power from the Sith Lord

"Mace was deep in it now: submerged in Vaapad, swallowed by it, he no longer truly existed as an independent being. Vaapad is a channel for darkness, and that darkness flowed both ways. He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center—"

Not able to overcome it

"There was a time when Mace Windu had feared the power of the dark; there was a time when he had feared the darkness in himself. But the Clone Wars had given him a gift of understanding: on a world called Haruun Kal, he had faced his darkness and had learned that the power of darkness is not to be feared. He had learned that it is fear that gives the darkness power. He was not afraid. The darkness had no power over him. But—

Neither did he have power over it."

They are equals

"Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.

Impasse"

Anakin's fear that Mace thought he was feeling

"Fool!" His voice was a shout of thunder. "Do you think the fear you feel is mine?"

Shifted more to grip from speed
"Out where the shadow's fear turned some of its Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete."

Mace is broken

"
Because Mace, too, has an attachment. Mace has a secret love. Mace Windu loves the Republic.

Many of his students quote him to students of their own: "Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace."

For Mace Windu, for all his life, for all the lives of a thousand years of Jedi before him, true civilization has had only one true name: the Republic.

He has given his life in the service of his love. He has taken lives in its service, and lost the lives of innocents. He has seen beings that he cares for maimed, and killed, and sometimes worse: sometimes so broken by the horror of the struggle that their only answer was to commit horrors greater still.

And because of that love now, here, in this instant, Anakin Skywalker has nine words for him that shred his heart, burn its pieces, and feed him its smoking ashes.

Palpatine is Sidious. The Chancellor is the Sith Lord.

He doesn't even hear the words, not really; their true meaning is too large for his mind gather in all at once.

They mean that all he's done, and all that has been done to him—

That all the Order has accomplished, all it has suffered—

All the Galaxy itself has gone through, all the years of suffering and slaughter, the death of entire planets—

Has all been for nothing.

Because it was all done to save the Republic.

Which was already gone.

Which had already fallen.

The corpse of which had been defended only by a Jedi Order that was now under the command of a Dark Lord of the Sith. Mace Windu's entire existence has become crystal so shot-through with flaws that the hammer of those nine words has crushed him to sand.
"

What on God Green Earth was all that posted for? Nobody is arguing anything of what you quoted. I asked for very specific things... and you provided exactly none of those things.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So which is it... No Precog or slow reflexes?

😂

Going by your logic Savage >> Kenobi since Savage PWNED Kenobi in Revenge. "Kenobis reflexies were to slow, he got pwned". And Savage Vs Kenobi was 10X fairer and more legit then Maul Vs Kenobi 😂

Has Mace ever blitz Ventress (a dark sider) ?
Isn't Anakin also faster than Ventress?

Mace can draw on his own inner darkness vs light siders yet he wasn't blitzing Saesee Tiin either.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
😂

Going by your logic Savage >> Kenobi since Savage PWNED Kenobi in Revenge. "Kenobis reflexies were to slow, he got pwned". And Savage Vs Kenobi was 10X fairer and more legit then Maul Vs Kenobi 😂

Oh yeah good point!

I personally thought Vader killing Sidious was the better example to show how retarded KT's speed blitz theory is. Granted Sidious was distracted shooting Luke. But Maul was also distracted just being cocky. And it's not like Vader was in peak form either, he had a missing arm and was also weaponless.

But point is they were both surprise attacks on an opponent not expecting any kind of attack.

Oh and your right Opress beating Kenobi in "Revenge" was 10 times more legit. Kenobi has his weapon out ready for a fight. He's shocked to see Opress first, but does acknowledge he's there before Opress begins attacking, and he even blocks the initial attacks.

Hmm maybe that's just what happens when Opress and Kenobi fight in an Open Environment 123

It was NOT a surprise attack.... MAUL WAS LOOKING RIGHT AT KENOBI... HE WAS THE ONLY ENEMY THERE. Even if he didn't expect the attack... it doesn't matter.. he was looking at him.. could see him make a jump... call on the saber.. ignite the saber... All this means he could've reacted to prevent being turned into a midget... This was not a surprise attack... Either Maul's reflexes are shit... He has no precog at all.. or kenobi is that fast. WHIcH IS IT?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
It was NOT a surprise attack.... MAUL WAS LOOKING RIGHT AT KENOBI... HE WAS THE ONLY ENEMY THERE.

Yeah but he didn't know he had a damn weapon.

Use some common sense KT. If Kenobi was really that much faster like you make out, how was there even a fight? Why wasn't Kenobi just blitzing him earlier?

Why can't Kenobi as even as a Jedi MASTER 13 years later Speed Blitz Maul?

I mean come on. Let's try and be at least a little bit reasonable in debates.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
No its not "bullshit" seeing as how Kenobi and Maul have been potrayed to be equals.
Well if you didn't notice, in Revival it portrayed Obi Wan showing his skill off, backed by Filoni who said Obi Wan is a very skilled swordsman. Before seeing this feat, its reasonable to say Kenobi = Maul, but whether you like it or not, you can't just ignore this fight. Saying its bullshit doesn't excuse Kenobi's impressive feat.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Or how EVEN with the help of Ventress, Kenobi was unable to defeat Maul.
You do realise Ventress was fighting Opress don't you? And ironically this is the same fight that Kenobi could have killed Maul if it weren't for Ventress losing her saber.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Also just because Windu did better Vs Sidious--dosint mean he wins. Buddy. 😮‍💨
No it doesn't, but it definitely helps the argument. What's you're evidence stating otherwise?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No because Kenobi was in a peak state at that point. We're flat out told he was completely ready and focused for the first one on one fight which was pretty equal. But then after Adi died he was EVEN MORE Focused, and that Maul and Opress were not going to defeat him IN THAT FIGHT, IN THAT SITUATION. So it was clearly a context specific one-off while Kenobi was in a peak state.
No it s because Kenobi's a highly skilled swordsman per Filoni.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Just like Ventress knocking out Kenobi in seconds while fighting off Skywalker, and then force choked them both was a one off context specific win while she was in a peak state.
First of all I don't recall Ventress winning? ...
Secondly how is it context specific? It seems like you excuse every detail of a fight with being context specific. Ventress legitimately knocked out Kenobi with the force. Not because of context or PIS but because she was skilled enough to do so.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Just because Sidious force smacked the Brothers all over the place, doesn't mean Mace can. In force powers Sidious > Mace > Maul. In Sabers Sidious also has various advantages over Mace given how he Blitz Tiin, Kolar and Fisto without Mace being able to do a damn thing about it. And guess what? Pretty much no one here thinks Mace would blitz those 3 in a fight.
At the same time, it doesn't mean Mace can't. But based on Mace being trouble for Sidious, imo he can do the same - or at least near the same - to the brothers.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No, because Skywalker has consistently stalemated Dooku in TCW, even seeming to have the edge at times.
Kenobi hasn't had the fortunate chance of fighting Maul throughout the 3 years of the clone wars unlike Anakin has had with Dooku. Its like you're taking silence as acceptance that Kenobi couldn't have if he had the opportunity.

Originally posted by mnat801
No it s because Kenobi's a highly skilled swordsman per Filoni.

And Maul isn't?

Kenobi being a highly skilled swordsman was one reason. The second reason was that he was in the right mind set this time.. I.e. In the Zone.

And yet in this right mindset he still wasn't defeating Maul in their one on one in the same episode.

The third reason he gave was that Kenobi was "even more focused" after Adi's death. I.e. More focused than he usually is, i.e. A peak performance.

Originally posted by mnat801
First of all I don't recall Ventress winning? ...

You've been shown this many times but you always conviniently forget about it. I might just start to forget Kenobi beat Opress 😛

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-nDmMMtb6Q

At 0:30 she kicks him. He's floored disarmed of his weapon, and lies there helpless for a good few seconds. This while she's fighting off Skywalker no less. She actually force chokes them both in this same fight later on.

Originally posted by mnat801
Secondly how is it context specific? It seems like you excuse every detail of a fight with being context specific.

See above. According to Filoni's explanations everyone has off days and peak days. Which is pretty realistic Imho. It's therefore consistent showings that matter more than any one-off's.

Originally posted by mnat801
Ventress legitimately knocked out Kenobi with the force. Not because of context or PIS but because she was skilled enough to do so.

It wasn't with the Force. It was with a kick, mid-saber fight, while fighting off Anakin. So is Ventress > Kenobi and Skywalker?

Originally posted by mnat801
At the same time, it doesn't mean Mace can't. But based on Mace being trouble for Sidious, imo he can do the same - or at least near the same - to the brothers.

Well it may be a valid opinion. But I'm going by the trouble Ventress and Opress gave Dooku. Seeing that I just have a hard time seeing Mace defeat both Brotheres together for a majority.

But he of course has a shot at doing it.

Originally posted by mnat801
Kenobi hasn't had the fortunate chance of fighting Maul throughout the 3 years of the clone wars unlike Anakin has had with Dooku. Its like you're taking silence as acceptance that Kenobi couldn't have if he had the opportunity.

What are you talking about? He's fought Maul and Opress 3 times each in TCW. So clearly him fighting them both off together was a one-off, as it only happened once in like 6 different fights.

Mace wins all three,with no difficulty...