Originally posted by Stigma
The fact that Vitiate may or may not be potentially fast has no bearing on the debate. Otherwise we could speculate that some random Sith is potentially as fast as Sidious. Unless demonstrated, he/she isn’t.Thus, Plagueis is much faster than Vitiate.
You are ignoring the ambiguity factor in the matters of speed.
We know that Sidious is very fast since he blitzed some skilled Jedi Masters. However, we CANNOT just assume by default that Sidious will manage to blitz every individual barring Mace, Luke and Yoda in history. Sidious didn't blitz Maul and Opress either.
Their is more to just speed in combat situations. Most important aspect is the "mastery of the Force" itself. Force-users are known to augment their physical movements but they also have precognition and other tricks up their sleeves.
Here is a hint: Tinn, Kolar, Fisto, Opress and Maul did not understood The Force in ways like Sidious did or even close.
As pointed out earlier, Vitiate have history of lot of battles as well and he was not overcome by speed in any; his opponents ranged from normal individuals to Force prodigies.
Originally posted by Stigma
Moreover, I am not blind to you ignoring my point about saber combat. Plagueis is vastly superior in this aspect too.
Scourge expected them to search him, or at least instruct him to turn over his weapons. But Yarri and the others simply stood at attention, waiting for him to enter. The fact that they showed no concern over letting an armed Sith Lord speak to the Emperor face-to-face without any kind of preparation was a testament to the Emperor's unfathomable power. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)
Get any hint?
In-fact, the first Emperor's Wrath have over a thousand kills under his belt (So damn skilled).
Originally posted by Stigma
Yes, I am well aware Plagueis accomplished it via ritual (which I already said) and with Sidious’s aid. My point is that this not only shows Plagueis’s knowledge of the Force but most importantly reveals his mental strength, something that Vitiate will not be able to break with his telepathic powers.
Vitiate have never failed at breaking any individual he wanted to with his telepathic abilities; even have track record of breaking several powerful opponents simultaneously and destroying minds of some.
In-fact, Vitiate's telepathic powers had galactic reach; he simultaneously telepathically controlled thousands of Force-users deployed or moving around in many planets.
Vitiate's mental strength is unmatched; he had patience of stone, tolerated unprecedented and horrific manifestations of the dark side without succumbing to them, naturally learned to utilize his mental strength in offensive ways and more.
Plagueis would not have managed to unbalance The Force without aid of Sidious and he doesn't matches Vitiate in mental strength related aspects either.
Originally posted by Stigma
Besides, Vitiate’s best feats are also benefit of ritual and/or DS nexus, no?
Vitiate's top known feat is bending the largest (and one of the most lethal) manifestation of the dark side summoned after a ritual in galactic history to his will to test the limits of his dark side power and complete his first major transformation on Medriaas while the same power obliterated all other life-forms in its path and even annihilated
The Force itself surrounding Medriaas.
Combat wise, Vitiate have impressive showings in all kinds of settings:
- Vitiate conquered Medriaas by the age of 13 (with personal kill record in thousands); unparalleled accomplishment.
- Vitiate easily felled a Jedi Strike Team (of some of the strongest and most resolute Jedi of the Order) on a space station.*
*This example proves that Vitiate doesn't needs to be on a DS nexus to be a monster.
Originally posted by Stigma
… And then there’s the whole midi-chlorian manipulation thing going on for Plagueis. Not that it matters, I am convinced in combat Plagueis has a clear edge over Vitiate.
Vitiate managed to stop aging of his original body for indefinite period with his dark side talents; could also prevent decay of his original body/avatars from physical toll of heavy dark side practices. In-fact, Vitiate knew ways to extend the life of others for indefinite period as well.
Plagueis certainly learned the art of midi-chlorian manipulation but he didn't match Vitiate in this aspect. In-fact, Plagueis wanted to learn the secrets of Vitiate but he never got access to such knowledge; no one did.
And no! Plagueis does not have sufficient credentials to match Vitiate in combat aspects; Vitiate have ruled supreme over many Force prodigies during his span of existence. He packed lot of surprises as well.