Stealth Moose
Umbrella Elite
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
As with Nai, of course I wouldn't expect you to admit it.
You said once:
You ignored a source I've provided--a source that says Yoda was unable to beat Sidious because Sidious proved to powerful to defeat-- which supports my interpretation of the fight more than yours.
^ This was a lie on your part. You clung to statements which favored your interpretation, regardless of context, instead of debating the canon material itself. You relied on reference works and interview questions of dubious utility to combat detailed scans, arguments, and application of reason.
This is known as confirmation bias. Here's an image to help you remember:
You also said:
I asked you to tell me how Yoda would have been able to defeat Sidious, and you couldn't answer. Instead you chose to point out my username and the character I mainly argue for than to address my argument.
^ This is also a lie. I replied tho Darth Power regarding the same issue several pages ago:
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
This has been addressed though. Yoda was at the very bottom of the senate chamber, he was for the first time saberless and far from his opponent. He would have to climb up, possibly dodging anything Sidious threw at him, then get in close and what? Dropkick Sidious? And we see immediately after this that troopers are on the way. Yoda's gambit was killing Sidious quickly, before he would be overcome. He was unable to do this due to circumstance. If they had not risen in the central pod into the senate chamber, the fight may have ended differently and more definitively, but applying the "he stopped fighting, ergo he could never beat him" is unreasonable. The situation dictated that his advantage was gone.No one's saying Yoda is lightyears ahead of Sidious; both are top tier. What we're saying is that Yoda has an edge on Sidious in both departments, and the movie makes it quite clear that fortune and good tactical setting saved Sidious. I don't think it's a coincidence that the pod began rising; Sidious likely set that into motion in order to afford himself an escape route or high ground, because he knew that on even ground, Yoda was too much for him to handle.
Your assertion - that Yoda was unable to defeat Sidious from his position of situational disadvantage, assumes that victory is impossible in all circumstances. This is unreasonable'; the opposition's argument clearly states that in a neutral setting, Yoda had the edge and even with circumstances heavily favoring Sidious, the latter barely survived.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Also, I went over a lot of this with Nai. I'd appreciate if you read my argument and consider it just like I will get to your link later. Fair is fair.
^ Here's where you blew off reading my scans argument, which predates this thread by years, and tell me to read your long winded argument with Nai. There's no point at doing this because:
I directly linked you to every relevant post, and it took me some time to locate the original thread in the first place. Your amount of laziness in this case is unwarranted and demonstrated an unwillingness to meet me halfway. I shouldn't be given the burden to search 10+ pages for everything you have said that Nai has systematically refuted, while I hand you my argument wrapped in tinfoil and you ignore it altogether.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And to make myself more clear:What I mean is, how can we determine which is more impressive: Sidious easily throwing multiple senate pods while, at the same time, holding up other pods in mid air, while in a better position; or, Yoda requiring a lot of concentration/seemingly struggling to catch and redirect just one, while in a worse position? How do we determine which is more impressive? Yes, I acknowledge that Sidious was in a better position, and thus threw many senate pods with ease, while Yoda was in a worse position, and was thus more hard pressed to catch and redirect just one. How can we determine which is more impressive unless we can come up with some math formula or something? Yoda couldn't be more impressive in that he threw one against gravity, seeing as Sidious hurled three over his head at the same time with ease. So the thing that made it harder for Yoda had to be catching it while being in a worse position.
^ This was addressed already. You drop debating points you can't handle, and then attack something else, ignoring if it's already been covered.
Again, I handed you my entire debate - my entire analysis of the fight, each post itemized. You waved your hand and kept on posting smaller posts of little consequence and no real thought.
Then, several pages later, you post this:
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
This thread has reached a whole new level of reaching and silliness.Yes, Yoda is quite a bit superior to Sidious, which is why he was never knocked unconscious. Which is why he cut Sidious to pieces while Sidious was at a disadvantage on the podium during their saber duel. Which is why Sidious never gained the high ground before Yoda managed to, and never nearly overwhelmed Yoda with a bunch of pods, causing him to lose his balance, nope, none of that ever happened. Which is why Sidious' lightning never disarmed Yoda. Which is why Yoda's final attack (redirected lightning ball) blasted Sidious to pieces, instead of just blasting them both apart and thus ending the fight in a stalemate.
Also, the Comics Companion which states that Sidious was too powerful for Yoda to defeat, was clearly wrong. If Yoda wasn't thrown several stories from the final move, he would have finished Sidious, which is why he was able to...finished him before that? Now I'm confused.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
As for Sidious choosing to jump out of the way of the pod instead of catching it, given his previous handling of the pods, then logically he could have catched it. Just like Yoda, for some reason, chose not to absorb Sidious' first lightning attack (only attempting to block it with one hand), but given that he was able to later on in the fight, then logically he was capable of absorbing the first attack.
To which you got a well-deserved:
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I don't think anyone expects you to meet them halfway, Sidious66. Your username and five years of experience kind of inhibits this expectation.
And I went rather easy on you. It was your temper-tantrum after that basically gave me the greenlight to lose all respect for you. Which just makes my job easier, I guess. But don't play the moral high ground. Your pettiness in handling the debate got you called out for your bias, and then you stomped your feet and called the opposition names and felt justified. That's grade school crap there. Grow a pair.