Legion of 3 Worlds INVADE Asgard!

Here is Trapper casually creating a new universe and destroying everything but two planets in it in seconds.

The proof that it was the same trapper as Prime-Trapper.

Superman slugged it out evenly with this same Trapper.

😂

Originally posted by abhilegend
Here is Trapper casually creating a new universe and destroying everything but two planets in it in seconds.

The proof that it was the same trapper as Prime-Trapper.

Superman slugged it out evenly with this same Trapper.

😂

I don't understand, how is that proof that it was the same version of Time Trapper?

Especially since at the end of the comic, Brainiac outright says this:

Originally posted by Galan007
actually, it was explained in the story that TT's powers are exactly what prime will not be retaining - as those energies, and the person utilizing them, are in a constant state of fluctuation:

---

if anything, prime will just keep his regular powers [ergo the glowing red eyes in this scan]:

Unless you can show Prime Trapper doing the feat I don't understand how you can apply past feats to him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Time Trapper would win solo. He was powerful enough to destroy everything in a universe in seconds untill only two planets, Krypton and Earth remained. That's above one eye could ever hope to achieve. Also Time Trapper's identity changes with flux in timeline, he is a sentient timeline and his power remains unchanged.

Odin manipulating Surtur's energies.

Prime Trapper is recalling history a past Trapper did, which proves even as there's multiple versions of Time Trapper with different motivations, they all have a shared history.. At the least, knowledge and experience of past Trappers apply to future, alternate versions of Trapper.

Think of Time Trapper as an abstract entity like Dream of the Endless. Lord Morpheus and Daniel Dream are different characters, but both are still Dream.. Both have the same function and capabilities.

Originally posted by cdtm
Prime Trapper is recalling history a past Trapper did, which proves even as there's multiple versions of Time Trapper with different motivations, they all have a shared history.. At the least, knowledge and experience of past Trappers apply to future, alternate versions of Trapper.

Think of Time Trapper as an abstract entity like Dream of the Endless. Lord Morpheus and Daniel Dream are different characters, but both are still Dream.. Both have the same function and capabilities.

But how does the second scan prove that it was the same Time Trapper as Prime Trapper?

That's all well and good, but unless there is some actual evidence to support it, I'm not going to assume Prime Trapper did anything other then what was shown on panel as it outright says in the comic in which he appeared in that everything about the character is in constant flux. I just don't understand how you can get around that without hard evidence.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Clearly it meant the superheroes. Otherwise you'd assume Asgard meant all the other Nine Worlds or something as they are apart of the Asgardian dominion. You have to be fair, but the logic is flawed either way imo. Anyways, doesn't really matter, the OP clarified.

If you're going to include villains, you have to do it for both sides. Not that beings like Gaea, Odin and so on aren't enough to win by themselves. Especially since Prime Time Trapper only showed some time warping abilities outside his regular powers IIRC. Although it's been a while.

We'll have to get the op to specify if the nine worlds are included but yeah he kinda clarified.

As it stands, it'll take more than just Odin and Gaea to get it done. Mordru energry manipulated a massive team of legion of superheroes and transfered their power. TT the entity was separated from Prime in this arc until Lo3W #5. Then emerges Time Trapper Prime as well as SBP who was still in existence.

There was TT/Prime at the end of the arc who it took a whole multiverse of Legionaire alternates to semi deal with. The entity himself appeared earlier beforehand.
Earlier he snatched Superman, Lightning Lad, Cosmic Boy, and Saturn Girl out the timestream, told them his plans then one shot em.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't understand, how is that proof that it was the same version of Time Trapper?

Especially since at the end of the comic, Brainiac outright says this:

Unless you can show Prime Trapper doing the feat I don't understand how you can apply past feats to him.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Odin manipulating Surtur's energies.

Am I the only one who thinks that there has to have been some mad orgies in the entire of the Legions run?

Originally posted by Sundipped
We'll have to get the op to specify if the nine worlds are included but yeah he kinda clarified.

As it stands, it'll take more than just Odin and Gaea to get it done. Mordru energry manipulated a massive team of legion of superheroes and transfered their power. TT the entity was separated from Prime in this arc until Lo3W #5. Then emerges Time Trapper Prime as well as SBP who was still in existence.

There was TT/Prime at the end of the arc who it took a whole multiverse of Legionaire alternates to semi deal with. The entity himself appeared earlier beforehand.
Earlier he snatched Superman, Lightning Lad, Cosmic Boy, and Saturn Girl out the timestream, told them his plans then one shot em.

Do you happen to have a scan of that? It's nothing beyond what Odin is capable of but I just don't remember seeing it in the arc.

What issue did Prime Trapper take on a Multiverse of Legions? Actually, I'll just get the whole arc. Did he actually one shot them or did he just knock them off his feet? Neither is really impressive at this level but I just want to be clear.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He recalled creating the pocket dimensions to confuse Legion and removing superboy from history which never lasts long and that was . After Prime punched Trapper, he removed himself from the timestream and was sent to the Earth-prime. Doesn't mean Prime Trapper didn't do anything he said. Time-Trapper's identity changes with each flux in timestream, he remains the same entity throughout the history.
Nothing compared to what Trapper did.

So it's Prime Trapper narrating in that second scan? What issue is that from? I'd like to see for myself or post a scan if you're able. I still don't understand how that proves that they are the same entity. I'm guessing the Time Trapper from the first scans did what the Time Trapper of the second scan describes regarding Superboy? But still doesn't change the fact that Brainiac very specifically states that the entity's entire history and identity changes:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1913341/tt1.jpg.html

I have no problem using every past Time Trapper feat ever for Prime Trapper but it'd be something the OP has to specify as based on the information I have, I can only apply to Prime Trapper what we've seen him actually do.

Sutur had collected enough power to burn the entire Nine Worlds. Using Other World as a conduit for his energies, he'd have burned/destroyed the entire Multiverse. Which is far more impressive then Time Trapper time traveling to the past where he removes a tiny sliver of space/time so small it could not be measured to have devastating effects on the Universe in the future:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16624864/AdventuresOfSuperman444p04and05.jpg.html

I mean, it's still impressive, but in terms of raw sheer destructive power, not anywhere close.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So it's Prime Trapper narrating in that second scan? What issue is that from? I'd like to see for myself or post a scan if you're able. I still don't understand how that proves that they are the same entity. I'm guessing the Time Trapper from the first scans did what the Time Trapper of the second scan describes regarding Superboy? But still doesn't change the fact that Brainiac very specifically states that the entity's entire history and identity changes:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1913341/tt1.jpg.html

I have no problem using every past Time Trapper feat ever for Prime Trapper but it'd be something the OP has to specify as based on the information I have, I can only apply to Prime Trapper what we've seen him actually do.

Sutur had collected enough power to burn the entire Nine Worlds. Using Other World as a conduit for his energies, he'd have burned/destroyed the entire Multiverse. Which is far more impressive then Time Trapper time traveling to the past where he removes a tiny sliver of space/time so small it could not be measured to have devastating effects on the Universe in the future:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16624864/AdventuresOfSuperman444p04and05.jpg.html

I mean, it's still impressive, but in terms of raw sheer destructive power, not anywhere close.

Surtur wanted to create a chain reaction to destroy the multiverse using otherworld. On his own his energies were not enough to destroy even Asgard. Also you are not paying any attention to what the scan says, that portion of the time had every planet and star from the proper universe.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16624864/AdventuresOfSuperman444p04and05.jpg.html

Trapper destroyed everything but two planets in seconds.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, its prime trapper narrating from Action Comics 864. Its nothing new, Time-Trapper's identity has changed several times from Cosmic boy to Glorith to a controller to some other being altogether.

Surtur wanted to create a chain reaction to destroy the multiverse using otherworld. On his own his energies were not enough to destroy even Asgard. Also you are not paying any attention to what the scan says, that portion of the time had every planet and star from the proper universe.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16624864/AdventuresOfSuperman444p04and05.jpg.html

Trapper destroyed everything but two planets in seconds.

So we see Prime Trapper narrating or are you just assuming it's him? I just want to be clear before I bother getting the issue.

No, it's specifically said that he'd use Otherworld as a conduit for destroying the Multiverse:

Asgard? What are you talking about? His energies were redirected by the one being who can render them harmless:

That scan outright says that Time Trapper did what he did by pruning that small sliver of space/time:

Nowhere even close to Surtur's level of sheer raw power. There's a difference between unleashing a blast of energy equivalent to a nuclear explosion and creating a nuclear explosion by splitting an atom.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So we see Prime Trapper narrating or are you just assuming it's him? I just want to be clear before I bother getting the issue.

No, it's specifically said that he'd use Otherworld as a conduit for destroying the Multiverse:

Asgard? What are you talking about? His energies were redirected by the one being who can render them harmless:

That scan outright says that Time Trapper did what he did by pruning that small sliver of space/time:

Nowhere even close to Surtur's level of sheer raw power. There's a difference between unleashing a blast of energy equivalent to a nuclear explosion and creating a nuclear explosion by splitting an atom.

It was just a way to create a chain reaction to destroy the nine realms which are separate dimensions.

Trapper created a universe from that time and it still had all the planet and stars which he destroyed untill only two planets remained.

Are you blind or something? Your BS aside Trapper casually destroying a whole universe in seconds shits on Odin shunting Surtur's energies to asgard-space which later burned that space too.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16032764/Sur12.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16032762/Sur10.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16032763/Sur11.jpg.html

That fire alone wasn't universal and Odin didn't render it harmless either.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, we see him on the last page.

It was just a way to create a chain reaction to destroy the nine realms which are separate dimensions.

Trapper created a universe from that time and it still had all the planet and stars which he destroyed untill only two planets remained.

Okay, that's fair. Assuming that is Prime Trapper, you still have to prove that all the history applies to this version. Normally I wouldn't be so critical of a character's background, but Brainiac very specifically told us that his history is in constant flux.

😐

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16631915/11.jpg.html

"And removing a slice of the cosmos, a fraction of time so small it could not be measured...yet contained within it all the Star's and planets of a whole Universe."

Time Trapper stole a piece of time/space from the past that would contain everything. And then he pruned the unwanted from that section. What don't you understand? Well, whatever agree to disagree as Odin's feat is still significantly better.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Are you blind or something? Your BS aside Trapper casually destroying a whole universe in seconds shits on Odin shunting Surtur's energies to asgard-space which later burned that space too.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16032764/Sur12.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16032762/Sur10.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16032763/Sur11.jpg.html

That fire alone wasn't universal and Odin didn't render it harmless either.

What are you talking about? The fire was Universal at least and using Otherworld as a conduit to amplify/channel the energies, would burn the Multiverse. This was explicitly pointed out:

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No, it's specifically said that he'd use Otherworld as a conduit for destroying the Multiverse:

Asgard? What are you talking about? His energies were redirected by the one being who can render them harmless:

Odin shunted the energies into Asgard-Space where they would burn harmlessly. How does this change anything? I thought I made it very clear to you already that under Fraction, each of the Nine worlds are infinite Universes onto themselves. Asgard Space isn't the same Asgard that's on Earth.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No, it's specifically said that he'd use Otherworld as a conduit for destroying the Multiverse:

While Otherworld serves as a conduit Surtur also hints it will amplify the fire.

Here is what he says in issue 20, "Otherworld is the home of all magic. It connects with all other realms. To strike a match there would make all realities a pyre, all universes kindling."

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Okay, that's fair. Assuming that is Prime Trapper, you still have to prove that all the history applies to this version. Normally I wouldn't be so critical of a character's background, but Brainiac very specifically told us that his history is in constant flux.

😐

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16631915/11.jpg.html

"And removing a slice of the cosmos, a fraction of time so small it could not be measured...yet contained within it all the Star's and planets of a whole Universe."

Time Trapper stole a piece of time/space from the past that would contain everything. And then he pruned the unwanted from that section. What don't you understand? Well, whatever agree to disagree as Odin's feat is still significantly better.

What are you talking about? The fire was Universal at least and using Otherworld as a conduit to amplify/channel the energies, would burn the Multiverse. This was explicitly pointed out:

Odin shunted the energies into Asgard-Space where they would burn harmlessly. How does this change anything? I thought I made it very clear to you already that under Fraction, each of the Nine worlds are infinite Universes onto themselves. Asgard Space isn't the same Asgard that's on Earth.

😂

Yes, he sliced the time but he destroyed everything else after doing that. I'm not sure why are you continuing this BS when just the next panel states he destroyed everything untill only two planets remained.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16631917/12.jpg.html

I will let Mr. Master speak for myself.

Originally posted by Mr Master
============================

I decided to research the recent Surtur/Odin event more closely since I was
debating off the scans posted in this thread without having read the arc.
I used judgement based on my own knowledge concerning Marvel Cosmography
and what made sense with said scans posted.
I came to the conclusion that the power Surtur amassed was Not "universal"
but rather 'pocket-universal' .. I called it a "mini-cosmos" ...
(which is the Pocket-universe containing Asgard as one of the Nine Realms)
It's actually called the "Sea of Space" ... sometimes referred to as "Asgard-Space"

Well,
since it was suggested I had evil plans due to my opinionated conclusion,
I got my hands on the entire arc and read it fully
and not surprisingly I found out I was right all along.

============================

Anyway ... from the get we know only the "Nine Realms" are in danger here:

(excerpt from the inside cover writer's prologue)

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16032753_Sur1.jpg]

-------------------------------------------

"Surtur, his city will destroy the [b]Nine Realms of Yggdrasil"

-------------------------------------------

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16032756_Sur4.jpg]

"Manchester Gods are Surtur's conduit ... which threatens the Nine Realms"

-------------------------------------------

============================

When Surtur's "conduit" is destroyed, All the power he's collected is again,
a threat to the Nine Realms ... in fact, that's the Only thing that was gonna burn here:

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16032757_Sur5.jpg]

-------------------------------------------

This really isn't shocking, I mean all this power Surtur gathered,
was from the Nine Worlds anyway:

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16032754_Sur2.jpg]

-------------------------------------------

All they need is a "Conduit" to get rid of this problem.
Thor doesn't have the power to get this done. Welcome Odin.

Odin was in the Pocket-Reality that housed Asgard,
known as the Sea of Space or Asgard Space:

*** Continues below **** [/B]

Originally posted by Mr Master
============================

The [b]Odin scenario:

============================

So, Odin is in the Sea of Space, Davis chose the other term used, "Asgard-Space,"
which is the same Pocket-universe.
Odin is tricked by Loki & Leah to help Thor.
Odin opens a dimensional-portal and they appear on the battlefield with Surtur:

------------------------------------------

Surtur explodes, the fire-power is released.
Odin does not block, absorb or withstand the flames,
instead he shunts the flames through the portal he came from:

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16032759_Sur7.jpg]

It does seem Odin is directing the flames through the portal:

[img=http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16032760_Sur8.jpg]

============================

Cool.

So, what happened to the "all-consuming" Flame-Power Surtur had collected?

Where did Odin guide these energies to?

Did they burn away an entire Universe where they landed?

============================

Odin is pissed not only cause he was tricked into helping Thor,
but also cause the place where he guided Surtur's burning-power through the portal
was "Asgard-Space" (as I suspected before reading this story myself)

Here's Odin, peering into a ball witnessing Asgard-Space burning:

Surutr's power being released into "Asgard-Space"

Odin opens another portal to "Asgard-Space" (we see Fire withIN the portal)

============================

So, what are we left with?

1) All the power Surtur collected was enough to burn the Pocket-Dimension containing Asgard,
known as the "Sea of Space" or "Asgard-Space."

2) Surtur nor Odin ever acted on an actual "Universal" scale in this arc.

3) Odin never affected any Eternity and/or any Universe's Space-Time.

4) Odin was able to open a Conduit and shunt Surtur's power
into the Pocket-Dimension containing Asgard.

============================

IMO! based on what I read/saw. [/B]

Surtur was threatening nine realms by the power he had collected from the nine realms. It wasn't universal in any sense of the world. Also shunting something through a portal isn't something power related. I can find herald level beings shunting that level of power. Where did you prove anything about asgard being infinite when its just a pocket dimension?

Originally posted by ares834
While Otherworld serves as a conduit Surtur also hints it will amplify the fire.

Here is what he says in issue 20, "Otherworld is the home of all magic. It connects with all other realms. To strike a match there would make all realities a pyre, all universes kindling."

Yea we know that Otherworld was used to feed Surtur until he grew to be that powerful. But Loki and the others make it clear in the next issue that Surtur had already collected all the power from Otherworld and his city into himself which is why Odin's feat is particularly impressive.

Or are you saying something else?

Here are the scans for those who are interested:

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, what? It directly states "to be continued in legion of three worlds" and you still want me to prove that it was prime trapper?

😂

Yes, he sliced the time but he destroyed everything else after doing that. I'm not sure why are you continuing this BS when just the next panel states he destroyed everything untill only two planets remained.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16631917/12.jpg.html

I will let Mr. Master speak for myself.

Surtur was threatening nine realms by the power he had collected from the nine realms. It wasn't universal in any sense of the world. Also shunting something through a portal isn't something power related. I can find herald level beings shunting that level of power. Where did you prove anything about asgard being infinite when its just a pocket dimension?

I said, it's fine. Yes, he destroyed the Universe, but he did so by pruning away at his sliver of time until only the planets he wanted remained. It's like wiping out the human race by stepping on the fish that crawled out of the sea. But like I said, agree to disagree.

Mr. Master's information is outdated about Asgard and the Nine Realms. As I pointed out:

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The Cosmic Axis also connects to not only the Nine Worlds but a much larger Metaverse structrue:

The feat was impressive because the World Tree is powerful. For something a bit more recent, the entire Galactus arc as about the World Seed, that will bloom and create the next cycle of creation as everything ends, it's power is unending:

Also note that Asgard and all the Nine Worlds are the hearts of their own fully formed Universes like Earth is for the 616, Asgard's is known as Asgard-Space as of Fraction.The Tenth World came from their own Universe which was suffering Entropic Death:

Asgard-Space and the rest of the Nine Worlds are all fully fledged Universes. Seriously, how on Earth could you have forgotten all of this so soon?

Odin was specifically called because he was the only one capable of channeling that much power into a place big enough where it could burn without destroying everything.

The way Surtur describes it seems to indicate that by burning Otherworld it will burn down the Multiverse via a sorta chain reaction. So, while impressive, neither Surtur or Odin are manipulating energies capable of destroying the multiverse through a "direct attack". Rather they are manipulating energies capable of destroying Otherworld.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I said, it's fine. Yes, he destroyed the Universe, but he did so by pruning away at his sliver of time until only the planets he wanted remained. It's like wiping out the human race by stepping on the fish that crawled out of the sea. But like I said, agree to disagree.

Mr. Master's information is outdated about Asgard and the Nine Realms. As I pointed out:

Asgard-Space and the rest of the Nine Worlds are all fully fledged Universes. Seriously, how on Earth could you have forgotten all of this so soon?

Odin was specifically called because he was the only one capable of channeling that much power into a place big enough where it could burn without destroying everything.

Its still nothing that is noteworthy against destroying a whole universe. Odin shunted it through a portal. Also where in those scans was Asgard stated to be an infinite universe? Asgard has always been a pocket universe and nothing in those scans contradicted it.