Legion of 3 Worlds INVADE Asgard!

Originally posted by ares834
The way Surtur describes it seems to indicate that by burning Otherworld it will burn down the Multiverse via a sorta chain reaction. So, while impressive, neither Surtur or Odin are manipulating energies capable of destroying the multiverse through a "direct attack". Rather they are manipulating energies capable of destroying Otherworld.

What Surtur meant was that by burning Otherworld, his fire would spread to all other Universes. Like he said, "Fire grows.". This might have been open to interpretation before but in the next issue, Loki very specifically clarified what was happening.

How would just burning Otherworld destroy the rest of the Multiverse? That doesn't even make sense.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What Surtur meant was that by burning Otherworld, his fire would spread to all other Universes. Like he said, "Fire grows.". This might have been open to interpretation before but in the next issue, Loki very specifically clarified what was happening.

How would just burning Otherworld destroy the rest of the Multiverse? That doesn't even make sense.

I'd assume Surtur would know more about his plan than Loki. Not to mention Loki doesn't contradict the notion that Otherworld will sorta fuel his fire or whatever.

And magic.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nah, he destroyed the whole universe straight up.

Its still nothing that is noteworthy against destroying a whole universe. Odin shunted it through a portal. Also where in those scans was Asgard stated to be an infinite universe? Asgard has always been a pocket universe and nothing in those scans contradicted it.

Whatever you say. If you wanted people to think that, you shouldn't have posted the scans that you did.

Lol.

"What you know as worlds are Universes. Complex, discrete, fully-formed. Look. You've take the heart of one of those Universes and put it inside of another."

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179150/Thor616-014-015.jpg.html

Asgard is a fully formed Universe. He even describes taking the heart of Asgard and putting into another Universe (616).

Not to mention the rest of my scans. But whatever.

Originally posted by ares834
I'd assume Surtur would know more about his plan than Loki. Not to mention Loki doesn't contradict the notion that Otherworld will sorta fuel his fire or whatever.

And magic.

Maybe, but probably not. But seriously, Loki had a very vital role in this story. If your view point needs to ignore his statement, you need to re-examine your position. Loki clarified very clearly what Otherworld's role in this was. What Surtur said could be taken your way but I don't see how that's possible after the following issue. Me, I think it's pretty obvious that Surtur meant unleashing a fire in Otherworld would spread his fire (Through the conduits) into the rest of the Multiverse:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16632034/Thor-Zone-016.jpg.html

Still doesn't make any sense. Why use those conduits to other realities when he could simply destroy Otherworld itself?

You're open to this interpretation, but it kind of flies in the face of most of this story. Just saying.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Whatever you say. If you wanted people to think that, you shouldn't have posted the scans that you did.

Lol.

"What you know as worlds are Universes. Complex, discrete, fully-formed. Look. You've take the heart of one of those Universes and put it inside of another."

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179150/Thor616-014-015.jpg.html

Asgard is a fully formed Universe. He even describes taking the heart of Asgard and putting into another Universe (616).

Not to mention the rest of my scans. But whatever.

And where did it say it was infinite? Asgard was and is a pocket universe. Replacing its heart whatever that is with another universe which wasn't even mentioned as 616 universe and claiming that makes asgard an infinite universe is just laughable when even 616 universe isn't infinite.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Whatever you say rage.

And where did it say it was infinite? Asgard was and is a pocket universe. Replacing its heart whatever that is with another universe which wasn't even mentioned as 616 universe and claiming that makes asgard an infinite universe is just laughable when even 616 universe isn't infinite.

The writer very specifically said that the Nine Worlds are fully formed Universes. Post a more recent scan that says Asgard-Space is a pocket Universe.

He's talking about Thor moving Asgard to Midgard which is part of the 616 Universe, but okay. I didn't mean infinite on the same scale as a Multiverse, I meant infinite on the same scale of the Universe. I thought that was obvious but sorry for the confusion.

Also, in regards to feats, Odin's dark counter part held his Universe's entropy at bay through sheer force of will.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The writer very specifically said that the Nine Worlds are fully formed Universes. Post a more recent scan that says Asgard-Space is a pocket Universe.

He's talking about Thor moving Asgard to Midgard which is part of the 616 Universe, but okay. I didn't mean infinite on the same scale as a Multiverse, I meant infinite on the same scale of the Universe. I thought that was obvious but sorry for the confusion.

Also, in regards to feats, Odin's dark counter part held his Universe's entropy at bay through sheer force of will.

Ok. Its still just a shunting feat.

Amped by the actual abstracts Infinity as retconned in Quasar. Time-Trapper IS entropy and not puny entropy of MU. In DC entropy kills universes and shit. The entire Zero hour was based upon Parallax absorbing Trapper's power and Parallax destroyed an infinite number of timelines which were full universes by that power. Hell Time-Trapper while being absolutely powerless was maintaining the whole 31st century universe by his power and Glorith tapping in Trapper's power destroyed the whole universe.

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Am I the only one who thinks that there has to have been some mad orgies in the entire of the Legions run?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What Surtur meant was that by burning Otherworld, his fire would spread to all other Universes. Like he said, "Fire grows.". This might have been open to interpretation before but in the next issue, Loki very specifically clarified what was happening.

How would just burning Otherworld destroy the rest of the Multiverse? That doesn't even make sense.

Because, apart from housing an omniversal/multiversal nexus, Otherworld has traditionally been an access point to all realities? Or the fact that it was described as being the home of all magic in the series?

Originally posted by abhilegend
And it still doesn't mean much in terms of power. Odin merely shunted the fire through a portal, he didn't render it harmless as you said. Captain Atom has done better than that, Animal man with two other morphogenic field users have done better than that, Byrne superman+Ray+Darkstar+Captain Atom have done better than that, etc.

Ok. Its still just a shunting feat.

Amped by the actual abstracts Infinity as retconned in Quasar. Time-Trapper IS entropy and not puny entropy of MU. In DC entropy kills universes and shit. The entire Zero hour was based upon Parallax absorbing Trapper's power and Parallax destroyed an infinite number of timelines which were full universes by that power. Hell Time-Trapper while being absolutely powerless was maintaining the whole 31st century universe by his power and Glorith tapping in Trapper's power destroyed the whole universe.

Shunted? Surtur exploded. Odin did not only have to manipulate the energies so it didn't harm anyone, he negated the energies as he threw them into Asgard Space:

All of which he did casually. I don't care about what anyone else did, stick to the topic at hand. We're comparing Odin's feat vs. the Time Trapper feat that you presented.

Smh, you didn't even look at the scans I posted. I'm talking about this scene:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179151/Thor616-016-017.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179152/Thor616-020-021.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179153/Thor616-022-023.jpg.html

I was going to counter and reply to that but unless you can prove those apply to Prime Trapper, I don't see the point.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
It was hardly open to interpretation. Which was in line with Surtur's explanation.

Because, apart from housing an omniversal/multiversal nexus, Otherworld has traditionally been an access point to all realities? Or the fact that it was described as being the home of [b]all magic in the series? [/B]

😬

Are you sure you replied to the right post? Because that's what I said.

Surtur's power would have destroyed the Multiverse using Otherworld to spread his power into every reality. Without Otherworld, it's still enough to consume whichever Universe he's in but wouldn't destroy everything.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Do you happen to have a scan of that? It's nothing beyond what Odin is capable of but I just don't remember seeing it in the arc.

What Mordru depowering the legion?

If you didn't remember that, then you probably don't emember the fact that White Witch took Mordru's power and then one shot a majority of the LoSV either.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What issue did Prime Trapper take on a Multiverse of Legions? Actually, I'll just get the whole arc. Did he actually one shot them or did he just knock them off his feet? Neither is really impressive at this level but I just want to be clear.

In Lo3W 5 the LoSH sent out a distress call to all legionnaires.

The fight was moreso him taking everything they dished out but he couldn't be defeated until Prime tried to punch him. The glitch shunted SBP back to Earth Prime.

The White Witch is a problem for Odin.

There is no way that One-Eye can dismiss the power of Mordru combined with the power of the Witch.

[i]Originally posted by Sundipped

The fight was moreso him taking everything they dished out but he couldn't be defeated until Prime tried to punch him. The glitch shunted SBP back to Earth Prime.

At one point he did knock out the heavy hitters, including Sodam Yat.

And IMO, Rage is kind of downplaying the Legion of Super Heroes.. (Although he's not the only one..) IMO, a single Legion could defeat a skyfather. Mordru is Skyfather level himself, arguably.

Three of them, including substitutes and honoraries?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Shunted? Surtur exploded. Odin did not only have to manipulate the energies so it didn't harm anyone, he negated the energies as he threw them into Asgard Space:

All of which he did casually. I don't care about what anyone else did, stick to the topic at hand. We're comparing Odin's feat vs. the Time Trapper feat that you presented.

Smh, you didn't even look at the scans I posted. I'm talking about this scene:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179151/Thor616-016-017.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179152/Thor616-020-021.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16179153/Thor616-022-023.jpg.html

I was going to counter and reply to that but unless you can prove those apply to Prime Trapper, I don't see the point.

Nothing but a shunting feat.

Prime Trapper is Time-trapper's one identity among various identities. Why would I try to prove something that's already proven by his own admission that he was the one who tormented the legion by creating pocket universes and what not? What kind of shit is this?

Originally posted by Sundipped
What Mordru depowering the legion?

If you didn't remember that, then you probably don't emember the fact that White Witch took Mordru's power and then one shot a majority of the LoSV either.

Okay, so I re-read the mini. You're right, with the power boost Mordru received, he started (A distinction worth noting) draining the powers of some Legion members and transferring it into the evil Legion:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16648697/Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_005-007.jpg.html

Which is pretty impressive, but he's facing Odin here.

Originally posted by Sundipped
In Lo3W 5 the LoSH sent out a distress call to all legionnaires.

The fight was moreso him taking everything they dished out but he couldn't be defeated until Prime tried to punch him. The glitch shunted SBP back to Earth Prime.

Lol? Prime Time Trapper was straight up knocked unconscious, even though it was temporary. Anyways, here's the entire fight against the Prime Time Trapper:

This guy is pretty powerful, definitely above Herald level. But he's maybe superior to Superboy Prime in stats with some time manipulation powers. Unless you try and apply past feats to him (Which I find extremely sketchy due to the nature of the entity itself), this dude has absolutely no business being in the same room with Odin on his better days. And it should be noted, that of the Legion members present, only a few number actually attacked Prime.

Also lol, Conner did better then I even remembered against Prime.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Okay, so I re-read the mini. You're right, with the power boost Mordru received, he started (A distinction worth noting) draining the powers of some Legion members and transferring it into the evil Legion:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16648697/Final_Crisis-_Legion_of_Three_Worlds_005-007.jpg.html

While you choose to focus on a "distinction" I'm looking at what the White Witch did. She wasted LoSV's just off transformation alone (into the Black Witch) with Mordru's power. Mordru would be fully capable of wrecking any team like that under his own power.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Which is pretty impressive, but he's facing Odin here.

Ok but this is Mordru with all the mystical power of a universe. Even though the necessary feats aren't displayed, that fact alone should indicate this is a somewhat high level force. I don't care if universe 247 was just a pocket universe, it would still be impressive. Most rank Mordru in the skyfather tier as is.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol ? Prime Time Trapper was straight up knocked unconscious, even though it was temporary. Anyways, here's the entire fight against the Prime Time Trapper:

This guy is pretty powerful, definitely above Herald level. But he's maybe superior to Superboy Prime in stats with some time manipulation powers. Unless you try and apply past feats to him (Which I find extremely sketchy due to the nature of the entity itself), this dude has absolutely no business being in the same room with Odin on his better days. And it should be noted, that of the Legion members present, only a few number actually attacked Prime.

Out for what.... a minute? And as we saw, Prime and Prime Trapper were what ultimately defeated themselves.

I never wanted to apply past feats. I just alerted you to the Entity appearing in the arc. The one who is seen propelling Prime through time and blasting Superman, Saturn Girl, Lighting Lad, and Cosmic Boy all at once. Nowhere is It stated in the op that he's not applicable. I asked for specification because that's the one I prefer to use.

You would be wrong in your assumption that the only legionnaires that participated in this battle were what is only shown on panel. Unless you're under the presumption that the distress signal was was of only minor importance and there was no code red type of threat that would garner that much attention. The writer isn't going to show every single legionnaire in attack mode but you can kinda get the gist of what's taking place. No question a lot more fighting was taking place off panel.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
lol, Conner did better then I even remembered against Prime.

lol, Connor had help from Bart, the legion etc. and they still couldn't put him down. How did you like scene with Superboy reminiscing when he was beat to a pulp?

Rage, do you see Mordru as an equal to Odin?

Originally posted by Sundipped
While you choose to focus on a "distinction" I'm looking at what the White Witch did. She wasted LoSV's just off transformation alone (into the Black Witch) with Mordru's power. Mordru would be fully capable of wrecking any team like that under his own power.

Paying attention to detail is important. Also, what the Black Witch did with that power is irrelevant as feats don't transfer like that. Not that one-shotting some Metas is noteworthy, but still.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Ok but this is Mordru with all the mystical power of a universe. Even though the necessary feats aren't displayed, that fact alone should indicate this is a somewhat high level force. I don't care if universe 247 was just a pocket universe, it would still be impressive. Most rank Mordru in the skyfather tier as is.

The most impressive thing this Mordru did was partially drain the power out of like a dozen Legion members (Who aren't exactly High Heralds) and torture Golem. And then he was owned with one counter spell from his understudy.

I'm sorry, but those being his only feats in that incarnation is pretty bad. This isn't some random Skyfather who lacks feats and something of this nature would be noteworthy.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Out for what.... a minute? And as we saw, Prime and Prime Trapper were what ultimately defeated themselves.

I never wanted to apply past feats. I just alerted you to the Entity appearing in the arc. The one who is seen propelling Prime through time and blasting Superman, Saturn Girl, Lighting Lad, and Cosmic Boy all at once. Nowhere is It stated in the op that he's not applicable. I asked for specification because that's the one I prefer to use.

You very specifically said that it was just Prime tanking attacks that could not put him down. But he was down and out. That's a very important fact to leave out.

😂

Yea, a sucker shot from Prime Trapper only knocking Superman, Lighting Lad, Cosmic Boy, and Saturn Girl off their feet definitely helps his case against Odin instead of making him look meh:

😬

Originally posted by Sundipped
You would be wrong in your assumption that the only legionnaires that participated in this battle were what is only shown on panel. Unless you're under the presumption that the distress signal was was of only minor importance and there was no code red type of threat that would garner that much attention. The writer isn't going to show [B]every single legionnaire in attack mode but you can kinda get the gist of what's taking place. No question a lot more fighting was taking place off panel.[/B]

😂

You're going to have to post some evidence to support that.

Originally posted by Sundipped
lol, Connor had help from Bart, the legion etc. and they still couldn't put him down. How did you like scene with Superboy reminiscing when he was beat to a pulp?

Probably more then Prime as he was getting his teeth fed to him at the time.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Rage, do you see Mordru as an equal to Odin?

Some depictions can be competitive to an extent, some aren't. But in short, no.