phoenix vs odin
Originally posted by the Darkone
DP destroyed solar system, as where Odin has destroyed galaxies, reignite suns and galaxies in battles. Odin caused shock waves through out the multiverse just for sh** and giggles. Seriously to this day SA Odin has better feats than most of the cosmic hierarchy and that's a fact.
Re: phoenix vs odin
Originally posted by comic_book_fan
professor x's battle with the phoenix said similar things to scale it was also fought on nearly every plain of existence.
the Odin fight was stated to be multiversal (though i myself have a big question mark on that feat, it's probably a hyperbole) the Phoenix/Xavier battle was stated to be on infinite planes of existence (and was a mental battle, only) which doesn't necessarily mean it's multiversal, at all. Might as well be a hyperbole, considering the very next issue opens with Uatu saying: PF is second only to the creator.......which is completely wrong.
Re: Re: phoenix vs odin
Originally posted by operator616
the Odin fight was stated to be multiversal (though i myself have a big question mark on that feat, it's probably a hyperbole) the Phoenix/Xavier battle was stated to be on infinite planes of existence (and was a mental battle, only) which doesn't necessarily mean it's multiversal, at all.
Might as well be a hyperbole, considering the very next issue opens with Uatu saying: PF is second only to the creator.......which is completely wrong.
Re: Re: Re: phoenix vs odin
Originally posted by zopzopWhy not? Infinite planes of existence sounds multiversal and beyond.
You know 616 Uatu said the exact same thing years later when narrating What If Jean Grey had not died. [/B]
plane of existence is generally referred to a plane inside a singular reality. Unless the issue mentions something like "multiversal plane" or "omniversal plane" like for example it did in the iron man/xo manowar comic where it's mentioned that "omniversal plane goes to nothingness" or something like that
Yeah, i was just commenting about that particular story (the X/Phoenix battle and the Uatu statement happened in uncanny x men #136 and 137 respectively.
Originally posted by Magnon
Narration is always prone to hyperbole, ESPECIALLY so in the case of asgårdians. In that Odin scan we can only see Odin destroy some features on a planetary surface, i.e. on the scale of a few miles. We can't see actual galaxies being destroyed, like the Beyonder wiped out a galaxy during Secret Wars.
The Odin destroying a Galaxy would've been hyperbole if it weren't for this Twilight Sword wielding Fire Demon named Surtur.Surtur destroyed a Galaxy to create his Twilight Sword after all.
Proof Surtur was the one who destroyed a Galaxy.
Note: Surtur can destroy a Galaxy without the twilight sword.Yet Odin easily owns that version of Surtur.The Twilight Sword puts Surtur at par with Odin.
Originally posted by Magnon
Thus, the best way to judge power levels is through actual fights. Phoenix has always had the upper hand vs. Galactus, in their AU and 616 encounters, whereas Odin is pretty consistently established to be below him.Conclusion: Dark Phoenix wins.[/IMG]
Except we don't use AU characters to prove a canonical character can be beaten.Not to mention we go with what the thread starter stated.And we go what transpired in the Dark Phoenix arc.And as shown, Dark Phoenix needed to feed first in order to reach a certain power level.She was stopped before she could reach that so called power.Odin will have a very huge chance against this Dark Phoenix.Any other versions of Phoenix would be problematic to Odin.
Originally posted by Magnon
Some scans of an AU Phoenix destroying THE UNIVERSE (according to narration), and of the 616 Phoenix holding the galaxy (or the universe, according to narration) in her hands:
Again we don't use AU versions to prove something.We go with whats canonical barring PIS of course.
Originally posted by operator616plane of existence is generally referred to a plane inside a singular reality.
Body/Universe (physical plane)
Mind/Thought (sub-conscious plane)
Soul/Ethereal (astral plane)
So, ... "infinite" planes of existence, ... that statement's senseless, or hyperbole.
Originally posted by Igniz
Surtur can destroy a Galaxy without the twilight sword.
Odin overstated Surtur's feat imo.
^ Yeah well, there are several other handbooks saying that Surtur destroyed a galaxy:
OHOTMU mystic arcana:
http://i.imgur.com/gTkDOzJ.jpg?1
Thor: Asgard's Avenger handbook:
http://i.imgur.com/REHQ8m3.jpg?1
All new OHOTMU #2:
http://i.imgur.com/8z88iyG.jpg?1
i could provide more references if you want, but that should be enough, i presume.
Originally posted by Mr Master
there's really only 3 in Marvel:Body/Universe (physical plane)
Mind/Thought (sub-conscious plane)
Soul/Ethereal (astral plane)
Setting aside the fact that "infinite planes of existence" has been mentioned more than once, there are other stories that tell us there are higher and lower planes of existence within the reality (X-Man #65):
http://i.imgur.com/mmwBhit.jpg?1
Later on in the series (X-Man), they introduce us to the "brilliant city" and its inhabitants (one of which Qabiri), who are located on higher planes of existence, and thus, they're more powerful, far more powerful. And it's also shown that there are beings who, in turn, dwarf the Brilliant city inhabitants which reside on even higher planes of reality.
Kind of like higher dimensions are shown in DC, imo.
Originally posted by operator616
Yeah well, there are several other handbooks saying that Surtur destroyed a galaxy:
OHOTMU mystic arcana:
Thor: Asgard's Avenger handbook:
All new OHOTMU #2:
Originally posted by operator616
Setting aside the fact that "infinite planes of existence" has been mentioned more than once, there are other stories that tell us there are higher and lower planes of existence within the reality (X-Man #65):
http://i.imgur.com/mmwBhit.jpg?1
Later on in the series (X-Man), they introduce us to the "brilliant city" and its inhabitants (one of which Qabiri), who are located on higher planes of existence, and thus, they're more powerful, far more powerful. And it's also shown that there are beings who, in turn, dwarf the Brilliant city inhabitants which reside on even higher planes of reality.
There are only 3 planes of existence withIN a universe, that I've seen actively affected, that is to say, 3 states of being/sentience.
**Mind-Body-Soul = Sub-Conscious - Physical - Spiritual** (real world as well)
One quick memory comes to mind is when Starhawk battled Korvac in every Plane of Existence,
and these "Planes" were the three I just highlighted.
Originally posted by operator616
Kind of like higher dimensions are shown in DC, imo.
Imo, if he is referring to higher/lower universes/dimensions,
then they're Planes of Reality, which could be other types of universes (not alternates)
Like what Reed and an alternate Reed visited in Hickman's run,
they were both as big as a star, but only because they were in some "higher dimension."
So you may have a point there actually.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Wut up Ig, I always saw it as, Surtur destroyed the center of that galaxy,
or rather, the super massive star core of that galaxy to shape Twilight.
The galaxy itself is still in-tact as Surtur is forging the sword within it.Odin overstated Surtur's feat imo.
😄 Doing great!Thanks for asking.Although I have to say that destroying the core of a galaxy itself has dire consequences.Although in the case of Surtur, he seemed to have used other parts of the Galaxy to create a portal.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor/Bill toss their hammers and destroy Surtur's portal forged out of the remnants of a Galaxy (It dwarfed Planets/Stars):
I guess you could say Surtur isn't the type of guy to leave left overs of a Galaxy.He even creates portals using the Galaxy's own materials for his demonic hordes.
^ Not according to Marvel, however in that same issue, Venus replaced Aphrodite as the Goddess of love.
DC uses a different concept, the olypmian gods were split into their roman and greek counterparts as a result of Darkseid's machinations.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Yea but On Panel, Surtur destroyed the galactic Core (supermassive star) of the galaxy.
He then proceeded to forge Twilight within said galaxy.I understand, but it's either planes of existence or planes of reality. (two separate things)
I don't recall that arc so I can't comment much but it seems he's comparing these "planes" to alternate universes, so he can't be suggesting these higher/lower planes are within a solitary universe imo cause he did say Alternates are Parallel (left/right)
& Planes are above/below (up/down). Yet perhaps this writer is interchanging the terms.There are only 3 planes of existence withIN a universe, that I've seen actively affected, that is to say, 3 states of being/sentience.
**Mind-Body-Soul = Sub-Conscious - Physical - Spiritual** (real world as well)
One quick memory comes to mind is when Starhawk battled Korvac in every Plane of Existence,
and these "Planes" were the three I just highlighted.I'd like to read this arc fully before commenting further.
From what I know Marvel's had a dimensional stack for years,
like Dweller in Darkness' reality and/or Nightmare's universe which is higher than many, including 616, ...
but really ... who's Nightmare?Imo, if he is referring to higher/lower universes/dimensions,
then they're Planes of Reality, which could be other types of universes (not alternates)
Like what Reed and an alternate Reed visited in Hickman's run,
they were both as big as a star, but only because they were in some "higher dimension."So you may have a point there actually.
perhaps what he's saying is that there are alternate universes and each one contains lower and higher planes of existence. That's how i understood it. But i also said that a plane of existence can be on a multiversal and even omniversal scale if the issue mentions it, like in the X-O Manowar/Iron Man crossover:
http://i.imgur.com/xcpYAy3.jpg
"one omniversal plane implodes to nothingness"
So it's possible that a plane of existence can be on a more than universal scale, i was merely saying that "generally", when there's a reference to a plane of existence (without mentioning the "multiversal or "omniversal" terms, it implies that said plane is within a singular reality)
Pretty sure there are instances where planes of reality and existence, are used interchangeably.
Let's also not forget that the Korvac/Starhawk battle happened in 1978....
Here's an example where a higher dimension (5th) is referred to as a plane of existence, in Strange Tales #103 Human Torch travels to the 5th dimension:
http://i.imgur.com/Z2KUFeR.jpg
Now look closely at what Marvel Saga: the official history of the marvel universe #7, says while narrating this scene:
http://i.imgur.com/uu46zM9.jpg?1
"a portal between different planes of existence"
That being said, id like to also point out that, while Hickman does indeed portray the reeds doing "surgery on the universe", higher dimensions aren't always portrayed like that. The Strange Tales issue for instance, doesn't portray the 5D residents as being anything wow, this is also shown a bit later in the pages of Fantastic Four.
And (later in strange Tales) we're introduced to a 6th dimension as well, again, nothing overly impressive about it. While this may look outdated (because that happened in the 60s), but this is not too different from what was shown in a 2011 mini called Vengeance.
We also have the Inbetweener create the 13th dimension as told in an Avengers story, same thing.
Compare Marvel’s 5D to the 5D imps in DC, the 6th dimension to the Cathexis (6D beings in DC) and you’ll realize that Marvel is a joke when compared to them.
Which is why i compared DC's dimensions to the "planes of existence" shown in X-Man. They show us, as I already mentioned, that there are even higher planes than the brilliant city in which beings reside that don’t even notice those of the Brilliant city:
http://i.imgur.com/BPxnJ1T.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NLt5hgC.jpg
Despite the fact that those same Brilliant City residents are called beings of "unfathomable power" at the beginning of this same issue:
