Originally posted by the Darkone
this version of Molecule Man powers was just locale not even plantery
Let be debunk all of your nonsense once again ... him saying that he controls the molecules around him does not mean that he can only control the molecules in the near area. It most likely means that he can't control his own molecules, but the ones around him:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2920687-ffann027_58.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2920688-ffann027_60.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2920689-ffann027_61.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2920690-ffann027_62.jpg
^ There you have Kubik stating that Molecule Man is actually more powerful than his evil side - that he has always been.
Molecule Man goes on to say that ripping apart galaxies and bending the laws of nature is easy stuff for him.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2920753-ff373_05.jpg
^ Molecule Man faces Aron and the narration states that the forces are enough to shatter planets.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2920767-ff373_20.jpg
^ Aron manages to defeat the Molecule Man by trapping him in a field without molecules, so there goes it again: Molecule Man is not capable of controling his own molecules. He even starts choking, because there is no air for him to breath.
Once again I'm telling you ... Molecule Man only controls the molecules around him and not his own.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2920810-hulk442_17a.jpg
^ Molecule Man once again affects the entire planet.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180595-9.jpg
^ After being tossed away by Sentry's explosion, Molecule Man needs to manipulate the ground in order to not take any damage, since he probably wouldn't handle the impact all too well, so once again: He is not capable of controling his own molecules, otherwise he would be extreme durable / invulnerable and capable of taking the damage.
Originally posted by carver9
The point of my scans isn't to prove something was happening during those scenes or not...the point of my scans is shown it doesn't take skyfather+ powerto damage Sentry. I can easily post Rulk or Ares doing it. H1 argument was terrible and it didn't coincide with Sentry appearances...at all. If H1 continues with his lame calculations, I'm going to continue posting fts of Sentry being damaged.
Carver, everyone can and has been damage or affected by characters under them. For, example Superman can be affected and damaged by aquaman, ww, etc. Thor can be affected and damaged by Thing.
The ease in which one does something also matters. For example, if Hulk lifts 1000 tons while smiling then this is better than Superman lifting 2000 tons straining. MM vaporized Sentry with a thought. It takes far more power to vaporize something than to just put a scratch on it or to put a crack in it.
So feats aren't just about what was done, but about how it was done. This is clearly beyond skyfather level. Now you can try to move the goalposts and say that it doesn't take skyfather level power to damage Sentry but I know you are playing dumb. We all know it doesn't take skyfather level power to damage Sentry but it certainly takes more than Skyfather level power to vaporize Sentry.
Odin never showed the ability to vaporize a very durable high herald level being. Yes Odin can ko and possibly kill a high herald (not instantly though) level being, but certainly not vaporize one. For example, Odin one shot koed Surfer. He didn't kill Surfer nor come anywhere close to vaporizing him. T and A were much closer to vaporizing Surfer than Odin did.
Finally, you are Marvel Bias. That means you are not really a first class Hulk fan. I'm serious! You only side with Hulk for the most part when he is up against a D.C. character. But you favor Thor, etc. more. So enough with the con games of pretenting to be a Hulkbag when in reality you are just a Marvelbag with Hulk not even being a major priority. 😆
Hm, this is the only scan I could find of Owen manipulating his own molecules:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16899881/Hulk442_15b.jpg.html
Transforms from a hulking behemoth into a frail little geek.
Originally posted by Silent Master
I thought you were going to debunk his argument?
He didn't debunk sh**, I said the MM in DA arch was weak sauce his powers weren't even planetary levels, DA MM powers in that story was more like proteus in some ways localize not planetary, not even universal. Normal level MM is a universe buster, Evil MM is a trans multiuniversal, DA MM wasn't even at his normal cube beings levels, what is so hard to understand.
The deliberate low balling and ignoring panel facts is absurd, Sentry couldn't beat the real MM or his evil version. Sentry feat is over hyped and taken out of context period.
Originally posted by the Darkone
I said the MM in DA arch was weak sauce his powers weren't even planetary levels
Molecule Man destroyed the Sentry three times. He destroyed a character, who brawled it out with World War Hulk and started destroying the city in the process - who fought the Collective and destroyed a Moon in the process and fought Photon and destroyed planets, while still holding back in the process.
Molecule Man ripped that character apart 3 times. That is the definition of being planetary level if you can come up with enough damage output to get past the durability / invulnerability of someone who participated in planetary level fights.
Originally posted by the DarkoneI agree. DA Owen clearly wasn't a trans-multiversal power, nor was he a multiversal power, nor was he a universal power, nor was he a galactic power, nor was he a planetary power.
He didn't debunk sh**, I said the MM in DA arch was weak sauce his powers weren't even planetary levels, DA MM powers in that story was more like proteus in some ways localize not planetary, not even universal. Normal level MM is a universe buster, Evil MM is a trans multiuniversal, DA MM wasn't even at his normal cube beings levels, what is so hard to understand.The deliberate low balling and ignoring panel facts is absurd, Sentry couldn't beat the real MM or his evil version. Sentry feat is over hyped and taken out of context period.
During DA, Owen's 'warp' was the size of a small town(at the very most), and he was evidently unable to extend his influence beyond that. Example: it wasn't until Norman came into his warp(aka. "world"😉 that Owen was able to affect him-- "You came into my world. So I control the world around you.":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16900032/Dark_Avengers_-_Molecule_Man_v2-052.jpg.html
In the same scan Owen also makes the distinction that he can only control the molecules of the world that exist AROUND him.
Aside from that, Owen personally teleported to the exact location of each one of the Dark Avengers individually before using his molecular manipulation to defeat them(scans can be provided if need be.) This further suggests that he could only control the molecules in his general vicinity, otherwise he would've simply tooled all of the Avengers simultaneously from a remote location.
^^ 👆
Originally posted by EnzeruLet be debunk all of your nonsense once again ... him saying
that he controls the molecules around him does not mean that he
can only control the molecules in the near area. It most likely
means that he can't control his own molecules, but the ones around him:^ There you have Kubik stating that Molecule Man is actually more
powerful than his evil side - that he has always been.
Kubik was referring to Owen's "humanity." This is why he's stronger.
The Molecule Man "power" is just that, ... "Power!" ... Owen's power.
While Owen is special because of the whole "humanity" bit Kubik dialogues,
without their "Power" ...
Kubik, Beyonder and the Molecule Man are Nothing!
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2920687-ffann027_58.jpg
Originally posted by EnzeruMolecule Man goes on to say that ripping apart galaxies and
bending the laws of nature is easy stuff for him.
mentally stable > mentally unstable.
Originally posted by Enzeruhttp://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2920753-ff373_05.jpg
^ Molecule Man faces Aron and the narration states that the forces are enough to shatter planets.
Well it is a Watcher after all. Aron was throwing pieces of the planet at em,
Owen was converting it to harmless stuff.
Originally posted by Enzeruhttp://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2920767-ff373_20.jpg
^ Aron manages to defeat the Molecule Man by trapping him in a field without
molecules, so there goes it again: Molecule Man is not capable of controling his
own molecules. He even starts choking, because there is no air for him to breath.
Once again I'm telling you ... Molecule Man only controls the molecules around him
and not his own.
Didn't you read the scans you're posting friend?
Originally posted by Enzeruhttp://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2920810-hulk442_17a.jpg
^ Molecule Man once again affects the entire planet.
Normal Owen Reece appears in that issue and looks different than his powerhouse altered personality:
Evil MM is muscular and bald. (I explained all this yesterday, I can't take circles)
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=586506&pagenumber=8
Originally posted by Enzeruhttp://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180595-9.jpg
^ After being tossed away by Sentry's explosion, Molecule Man needs to
manipulate the ground in order to not take any damage, since he probably wouldn't
handle the impact all too well, so once again: He is not capable of controling his
own molecules, otherwise he would be extreme durable / invulnerable and
capable of taking the damage.
I agree. A complete chump in comparison.
Originally posted by Galan007
I agree. DA Owen clearly wasn't a trans-multiversal power, nor was he a multiversal power, nor was he a universal power, nor was he a galactic power, nor was he a planetary power.
Hey guess what, World War Hulk never destroyed an asteroid, so he clearly must be below asteroid level.
Just because a character doesn't perform the same high end feats during every single appearance doesn't mean that his power level is being downgraded.
When was the last time we saw Silver Surfer doing something on a planetary level? It's a long time, but we still know that he is capable of doing it.
Originally posted by Galan007
In the same scan Owen also makes the distinction that he can only control the molecules of the world that exist AROUND him.
Yeah, that's exactly what he does. I explained it in the thread by providing enough content to prove that he has physical limitations and therefore has problems affecting his own molecules, but rather does it to everything AROUND him.
Originally posted by Galan007
Aside from that, Owen personally teleported to the exact location of each one of the Dark Avengers individually before using his molecular manipulation powers to defeat them(scans can be provided if need be.) This further suggests that he could only control the molecules in his general vicinity, otherwise he would've simply tooled all of the Avengers simultaneously from a remote location.
LOL, no! Here you have Molecule Man affecting Ares, who is not near him: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180597-11.jpg
On top of that he also pulled Norman Osborn out of his armor to his kingdom and for that he also wasn't near Osborn.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Nah, and you're taking those scans out of context.
Yeah, I'm the one taking scans out of context -____-
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually, "to shatter ... [b]a ... planet." ... Not planetS.[/b]
I wasn't using it as as plural, but just to generalize the area of destruction.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually, Owen couldn't affect [b]organic molecules vs Aron.[/b]
Marvel are handling that weakness of Molecule Man like idiots.
During that instance he was not capable of affecting them, but during the Dark Avengers saga he was capable of doing it. Even godly molecules like the ones from Ares, who sometimes is specialized like for example when stopping the time didn't work on him.
So with Dark Avengers Molecule Man being capable of affecting organic molecules does that make him more powerful than the version you're referrencing now, that was able to affect an entire planet during a fight? UUUH, context, right?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Didn't you read the scans you're posting friend?
I do. Do you?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Self-imposed limitations mentally unstable Owen is sure different to mentally stable Owen, and infinitely different to Evil MM.
I've already covered that up before, scan by scan in a perfect chronological order and provided every single scan one needs to grasp Molecule Man's power levels.
But then you have few idiots here on Killermovies (and idiots are everywhere... on CBR and Comicvine as well, of course), who come up with speculations, or are simply haters and try to get their ridiculous point of view through.
What I get from the idiots in this thread is, that because Dark Avengers Molecule Man (even though surpassing for some part his prior versions) didn't affect the entire universe is only limited to a local area, when it comes to molecule manipulation and on top of that ... Molecule Man's evil version is more powerful than the regular Molecule Man, just because he was affecting universes and the regular one wasn't. The idiots here WANT that one proof even though storywise there was NEVER the need for Molecule Man to actually affect universes. He still said that affecting galaxies and the laws of nature is childs play for him and Kubik said that he is and always was more powerful than his dark side.
I hope that all the non-idiotic users on Killermovies and also everyone else, who has a genuine interest in the outcome of all of this come to the conclusion that the Sentry and Molecule Man lawballing in this thread has reached its max, since right now we're at the point where the idiots sound like broken records; repeat the same wrong shit over and over again and the actually smart guys ran out of ways to analyze all of it even further to make it all obvious and clear.
Good day, sirs. You're a bunch of helpless fools.
so what restrictions is MM putting on himself? He gave himself very distinct restrictions the first time he did this. It is pretty obvious Bendis was not going down that path with the story. Yes he was unstable which made him not as dangerous that is all. Does not mean he was not as powerful.
Just because he did not warp the whole planet does not mean he cant
bendis was pretty straight forward...he wanted to show off sentry's power. And used MM as a measuring stick. Sorry if you guys dont like it but that is what happened
Originally posted by EnzeruHe didn't? These scans must be non-canon, then:
Hey guess what, World War Hulk never destroyed an asteroid, so he clearly must be below asteroid level.
Yes, you just owned yourself. Good job. 👆
Originally posted by EnzeruAround him=his general vicinity. This was made blatantly evident by the context of the story.
Yeah, that's exactly what he does. I explained it in the thread by providing enough content to prove that he has physical limitations and therefore has problems affecting his own molecules, but rather does it to everything AROUND him.
You might not want to hear this, but Sentry is not a multiversal+ power, and neither was Owen during DA.
Originally posted by EnzeruSo he was able to affect molecules from a distance AFTER he'd already manipulated them up close initially? What exactly do you think this proves? Even if Owen was portrayed as a global power during DA, that still doesn't make Sentry multiversal+ by proxy. Lol.
LOL, no! Here you have Molecule Man affecting Ares, who is not near him: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180597-11.jpgOn top of that he also pulled Norman Osborn out of his armor to his kingdom and for that he also wasn't near Osborn.
^^ 👆 Actually Galan, Ares was right there in Town with the rest of the Avengers,
because Owen had scattered them in the Town to deal with them individually.
So, you're still correct.
Anyway, there's Ares at the end next page:
🙂
Originally posted by Enzeru
Marvel are handling that weakness of Molecule Man like idiots.
During that instance he was not capable of affecting them, but
during the Dark Avengers saga he was capable of doing it. Even
godly molecules like the ones from Ares, who sometimes is
specialized like for example when stopping the time didn't work on him.
So with Dark Avengers Molecule Man being capable of affecting
organic molecules does that make him more powerful than the
version you're referrencing now, that was able to affect an entire
planet during a fight? UUUH, context, right?
Insecure mentally unstable Owen doesn't affect planets, or a planet.
Now mentally stable Owen's power can be cosmic scale.
Originally posted by Enzeru
But then you have few idiots here on Killermovies (and idiots are
everywhere... on CBR and Comicvine as well, of course), who come
up with speculations, or are simply haters and try to get their
ridiculous point of view through.What I get from the idiots in this thread is, that because Dark
Avengers Molecule Man (even though surpassing for some part his
prior versions) didn't affect the entire universe is only limited to a
local area, when it comes to molecule manipulation and on top of
that ... Molecule Man's evil version is more powerful than the
regular Molecule Man, just because he was affecting universes and
the regular one wasn't. The idiots here WANT that one proof even
though storywise there was NEVER the need for Molecule Man to
actually affect universes. He still said that affecting galaxies and the
laws of nature is childs play for him and Kubik said that he is and
always was more powerful than his dark side.I hope that all the non-idiotic users on Killermovies and also
everyone else, who has a genuine interest in the outcome of all of
this come to the conclusion that the Sentry and Molecule Man
lawballing in this thread has reached its max, since right now we're
at the point where the idiots sound like broken records; repeat the
same wrong shit over and over again and the actually smart guys
ran out of ways to analyze all of it even further to make it all
obvious and clear.Good day, sirs. You're a bunch of helpless fools.
Originally posted by Galan007
He didn't? These scans must be non-canon, then:
Yes, you just owned yourself. Good job. 👆
Around him=his general vicinity. This was made blatantly evident by the context of the story.
You might not want to hear this, but Sentry is not a multiversal+ power, and neither was Owen during DA.
So he was able to affect molecules from a distance AFTER he'd already manipulated them up close initially? What exactly do you think this proves? Even if Owen was portrayed as a global power during DA, that still doesn't make Sentry multiversal+ by proxy. Lol.
😂 Galan by far is one my faves. 👆
Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ 👆 Actually Galan, Ares was right there in Town with the rest of the Avengers,
because Owen had scattered them in the Town to deal with them individually.So, you're still correct.
Anyway, there's Ares at the end next page:
🙂
DA Owen was mentally [b]unstable
, on top of the self imposed limitations.
Also, you have to understand that mentally stable is > mentally unstable.Insecure mentally unstable Owen doesn't affect planets, or a planet.
Now mentally stable Owen's power can be cosmic scale.facepalm ... wow, haven't been nudged to pop out that smilie in a while. [/B]
What a phucking cry baby because the panel evidence proved he and anybody else was wrong about Molecule Man
