Er, I would agree with Intrepid. Not much of what you said made sense to me or seemed particularly valid as a comparison. I would agree with you though that both are above Dooku though.
Vivicar was an enormously powerful Sith in his own right, with some powerful abilities and is stated to be 'terrifyingly powerful'. And he was amped by the power of hundreds of Jedi Masters, all of which adds up to higher than Dooku imo.
The First Son is also a Force Titan, far above the already powerful Emperors Children and matches up well to the Barsen'thor. I'd put him about on par with the latter, with her beating him because Syo was helping.
He was amped by Jedi Masters. Read my post on him in the respect thread. He was clearly a very powerful Sith Lord in his own right, able to infect hundreds of Jei around the galaxy with his power. Pro tip: Whenever someone can affect people across the galaxy with their Force powers, they're probably a big deal. He was also able to dominate the minds of hundreds of Republic troops, possessed ability with Sith alchemy and was able to possess beings minds and manipulate their bodies. Dismissing the statement about him possessing terrifying power as mere hyperbole is also absurd. Hyperbole does not automatically mean 'worthless'. Obviously its meaning is that Vivicar is very powerful. He is very powerful in his own right. At least, what, Council level?
Now add him siphoning power from hundreds of Jedi Masters and hell yeah that puts him above Dooku. 😬
Originally posted by Nephthys
Dismissing the statement about him possessing terrifying power as mere hyperbole is also absurd. Hyperbole does not automatically mean 'worthless'. Obviously its meaning is that Vivicar is very powerful. He is very powerful in his own right. At least, what, Council level?Now add him siphoning power from hundreds of Jedi Masters and hell yeah that puts him above Dooku. 😬
Dooku trashes the usual Council member while smoking big, brown cuban cigars on a monday morning.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
😐Dooku trashes the usual Council member while smoking big, brown cuban cigars on a monday morning.
You're exaggerating his power. He is not that far above the Jedi Council.
But you forgot about the 'Now add him siphoning power from hundreds of Jedi Masters' part. Its understandable I guess, that would be easy to miss. Unless you have, you know, eyes. >:]
Originally posted by Nephthys
You're exaggerating his power. He is not that far above the Jedi Council.
Originally posted by Nephthys
But you forgot about the 'Now add him siphoning power from hundreds of Jedi Masters' part. Its understandable I guess, that would be easy to miss. Unless you have, you know, eyes. >:]
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Also I just wanted to say you're a douchebag who takes too long to create respect threads.
Maybe its because I actually bother to spend time reading them.
Oooh, we must be in a restaurant right now cuz you just got served!
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Obi-Wan in his absolute prime, one of the most prominent Jedi of his time and far above the average Council member, got absolutely trashed by the Count.
Yeah and Obi-Wan has also gotten absolutely trashed by Ventress. I guess she must be far above Council level too.
Dooku isn't that far above the Council imo. He wouldn't trash Shaak Ti, Plo Koon, Ki-Adi-Mundi or Kit Fisto.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Unless you have an exact examination of his improvement or a demonstration with said augmentation, I'm not buying it.
🙄
Originally posted by Nephthys
Maybe its because I actually bother to spend time reading them.Oooh, we must be in a restaurant right now cuz you just got served!
Also, I could make a Malgus respect thread with all his feats from the books in a few minutes, and then you could provide game feats (if you want to).
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah and Obi-Wan has also gotten absolutely trashed by Ventress.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I guess she must be far above Council level too.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku isn't that far above the Council imo. He wouldn't trash Shaak Ti, Plo Koon, Ki-Adi-Mundi or Kit Fisto.
No PT Council members have ever or will ever prove a challenge for Dooku unless they're Yoda, Mace or later on Anakin.
Originally posted by Nephthys
🙄
Originally posted by Intrepid37
I didn't catch your smart phrase.Also, I could make a Malgus respect thread with all his feats from the books in a few minutes, and then you could provide game feats (if you want to).
That would be fairly easy for me. The only things he does in the game are in the trailers and in his final fight in the False Emperor flashpoint. If you need them, just PM me.
You might be underestimating how much work it would be though.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
When?
The Clone Wars: Season 3, episode 12 'Nightsisters'. She duels Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same time and knocks out Obi-Wan with a kick in the first 10 seconds.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
This comparison is incorrect: we know from her duels that she is roughly equal to all of them you listed below.
Yes, and we know from Dooku's duels that he is roughly above the Council members. He had some trouble against Anakin in AotC and in The Clone Wars movie, and at neither point was Anakin above the Council.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
He would absolutely trash all of them. None would prove any challenge. I refer you to his little encounter with Ventress after he had betrayed Savage Opress: she blocks a few of Dooku's attacks, runs away, gets ridded of her lightsaber, gets choked and beaten with virtually no effort on Dooku's side.No PT Council members have ever or will ever prove a challenge for Dooku unless they're Yoda, Mace or later on Anakin.
If none of them prove a challenge then he should have been able to easily defeat Savage and Ventress put together. You are overestimating him.
Anakin provides a challenge for Dooku as soon as the Clone Wars movie.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
😉
Hundreds of Jedi Masters is hundreds of Jedi Master no matter how you cut it.
Originally posted by Nephthys
That would be fairly easy for me. The only things he does in the game are in the trailers and in his final fight in the False Emperor flashpoint. If you need them, just PM me.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You might be underestimating how much work it would be though.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The Clone Wars: Season 3, episode 12 'Nightsisters'. She duels Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same time and knocks out Obi-Wan with a kick in the first 10 seconds.
Originally posted by Nephthys
He had some trouble against Anakin in AotC and in The Clone Wars movie, and at neither point was Anakin above the Council.
Originally posted by Nephthys
If none of them prove a challenge then he should have been able to easily defeat Savage and Ventress put together.
a) Savage packs incredible raw power, clearly catching Dooku off-guard.
b) Savage is more powerful than all Council members except Yoda, Mace and later on Anakin.
c) The restricted space may very well have been infavorable for Dooku.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Hundreds of Jedi Masters is hundreds of Jedi Master no matter how you cut it.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
I can start making the thread a little later with book feats (if I forget some, you could always supply me with them) and then you could make a new post with videos.
Ok.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Why? It's just looking up a few videos then post them here.
I meant more work for you.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Which is irrelevant when they are equals in all one-on-one fights.
Haha, what? How does that work? Ventress was at a disadvantage since she was fighting Anakin at the same time as Obi-Wan. That it was two on one just makes it more impressive for her. That she still managed to take out Kenobi surely indicates waaaay above Council level prowess.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Prove it.
AotC:
"The Count reacted immediately, backpedaling and turning to face Anakin. "That's brave of you, boy, but foolish. I would've thought you'd have learned your lesson."
"I'm a slow learner," Anakin replied coolly, and he came on then, so suddenly, so powerfully, his green blade whirling with such speed that he seemed almost encased in green light.
For the first time, Count Dooku lost his little confident smile. He had to work furiously to keep Anakin's blade at bay, dodging more than parrying. He tried to step out to the side, but stopped as if he had hit a wall, and his eyes widened a bit when he realized that this young Padawan, in the midst of that assault, had used the Force to block his exit.
"You have unusual powers, young Padawan," he sincerely congratulated. His little grin returned, and gradually Dooku put himself back on even footing with Anakin, trading thrust for slash and forcing Anakin to dodge and parry as often as he tried to strike."
2.20. Note the sagging shoulders and that Dooku is visibly out of breath.
TCW:
Anakin performs admirably against him, getting hits in and lasting a long time in lighsaber combat. Hell, Dooku is even on his ass at the end of the fight, lmao! shocklaugh
Also note how Dooku does not 'trash' him.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
His struggle against Savage and Ventress owes to some factors that a normal, unscripted fight with a Council member would not subscribe to.a) Savage packs incredible raw power, clearly catching Dooku off-guard.
b) Savage is more powerful than all Council members except Yoda, Mace and later on Anakin.
c) The restricted space may very well have been infavorable for Dooku.
Savage was not that much more powerful than the Council at the time, if he was at all. That he defeats a few later on is not reflective of him at that point.
Also Savages complete inability to block lightning was a huge factor in Dooku's favor, so don't act as if he was at a big disadvantage or something.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
This is looking like a no-limits fallacy to me.
😬
How the hell is that a no-limits fallacy? There is clearly a limit: the power of hundreds of Jedi Masters.
I'm not even arguing he draining all of their power. But if he was siphoning as little as 5% from each of them it would still be an enormous boost.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Haha, what? How does that work? Ventress was at a disadvantage since she was fighting Anakin at the same time as Obi-Wan. That it was two on one just makes it more impressive for her. That she still managed to take out Kenobi surely indicates waaaay above Council level prowess.
Originally posted by Nephthys
AotC:"The Count reacted immediately, backpedaling and turning to face Anakin. "That's brave of you, boy, but foolish. I would've thought you'd have learned your lesson."
"I'm a slow learner," Anakin replied coolly, and he came on then, so suddenly, so powerfully, his green blade whirling with such speed that he seemed almost encased in green light.
For the first time, Count Dooku lost his little confident smile. He had to work furiously to keep Anakin's blade at bay, dodging more than parrying. He tried to step out to the side, but stopped as if he had hit a wall, and his eyes widened a bit when he realized that this young Padawan, in the midst of that assault, had used the Force to block his exit.
"You have unusual powers, young Padawan," he sincerely congratulated. His little grin returned, and gradually Dooku put himself back on even footing with Anakin, trading thrust for slash and forcing Anakin to dodge and parry as often as he tried to strike."
2.20. Note the sagging shoulders and that Dooku is visibly out of breath.
TCW:
Anakin performs admirably against him, getting hits in and lasting a long time in lighsaber combat. Hell, Dooku is even on his ass at the end of the fight, lmao! shocklaugh
Also note how Dooku does not 'trash' him.
I meant prove the Council members are above Anakin.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Savage was not that much more powerful than the Council at the time, if he was at all. That he defeats a few later on is not reflective of him at that point.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also Savages complete inability to block lightning was a huge factor in Dooku's favor, so don't act as if he was at a big disadvantage or something.
Originally posted by Nephthys
😬How the hell is that a no-limits fallacy? There is clearly a limit: the power of hundreds of Jedi Masters.
I'm not even arguing he draining all of their power. But if he was siphoning as little as 5% from each of them it would still be an enormous boost.
No, you would have to give me an exact estimation of the boost and then a demonstration of how powerful he was with the boost. Otherwise, you've got a half-assed argument existing only in your head.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
No, since it is not her average performance level.
Just like Dooku owning Obi-Wan is not his average performance. We saw him try and fail to pwn Obi-Wan with the Force in AotC.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
😬I meant prove the Council members are above Anakin.
Oh. Laff, Anakin was still geting his ass kicked by people like A'Sharad Hett at this point, while he was enraged. He was not better than most of the Council.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Savage's sheer strength and raw power transcends that of every Council member bar the obvious exceptions: the favorable environment and his arguable rage boost only made it less favorable for the Count than could be.
No, not really. While he's stronger and more powerful than them, he is also much less skilled. Especially as of the Dooku fight. The top Council members would still be good fights for him, or beat him.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
But he was.
He had a method to shut down Savage easily. And the room wasn't that small, he was still able to dodge him well enough for the majority of the fight. Just face it, Dooku didn't own them because Dooku couldn't own them.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
😬No, you would have to give me an exact estimation of the boost and then a demonstration of how powerful he was with the boost. Otherwise, you've got a half-assed argument existing only in your head.
Wow, disingenuous much? No, I think you'll find I don't have to do that. If you're not smart enough to understand that drawing power from hundreds of the most powerful Jedi Masters in the galaxy would significantly boost your own power then its not my job to make you see reason. If the boost wasn't noticeable he wouldn't freaking do it. And theres the fact that the plague weakens them to the point of death, indicating a rather significant drain on them. I don't need to give you an exact estimation. Logically it would be a large boost. Anyone with a brain and without a bias against it could figure that out. 😬
Originally posted by Nephthys
Just like Dooku owning Obi-Wan is not his average performance. We saw him try and fail to pwn Obi-Wan with the Force in AotC.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh. Laff, Anakin was still geting his ass kicked by people like A'Sharad Hett at this point, while he was enraged. He was not better than most of the Council.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, not really. While he's stronger and more powerful than them, he is also much less skilled. Especially as of the Dooku fight. The top Council members would still be good fights for him, or beat him.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Just face it, Dooku didn't own them because Dooku couldn't own them.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Wow, disingenuous much? No, I think you'll find I don't have to do that. If you're not smart enough to understand that drawing power from hundreds of the most powerful Jedi Masters in the galaxy would significantly boost your own power then its not my job to make you see reason. If the boost wasn't noticeable he wouldn't freaking do it. And theres the fact that the plague weakens them to the point of death, indicating a rather significant drain on them. I don't need to give you an exact estimation. Logically it would be a large boost. Anyone with a brain and without a bias against it could figure that out. 😬
No one said he wouldn't be boosted, and he might very well be above Dooku thanks to the boost... but you've given no absolute proof to make me think so.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
No, we saw Dooku try and disable Obi-Wan with lightning, which is very different from telekinesis.
If Dooku could have pwned him with TK, do you not think he would have tried to after his lightning proved ineffective?
Originally posted by Intrepid37
I would like a full account of this fight.
They were fighting some dudes together and Anakin gets insanely pissed off because A'Sharad is a sand person so he attacks him too, but soon gets disarmed and humbled.
Star Wars: Republic 59: Enemy Lines
Originally posted by Intrepid37
No one said they wouldn't give him good fights... but he's a better combatant than all of them bar Yoda, Mace, Anakin and Obi-Wan.
Nah. Kit Fisto is Obi-Wans equal imo and would beat Savage as comfortably as Kenobi did.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
No one he could.
Huh? If you meant 'no-one said he could', then you did say he could trash them.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
🙄No one said he wouldn't be boosted, and he might very well be above Dooku thanks to the boost... but you've given no absolute proof to make me think so.
Thats a pretty gay attitude. I've pointed out to you that even a portion of their strength would add up to a significant boost. I don't particularly care if you don't accept that.
Originally posted by Nephthys
If Dooku could have pwned him with TK, do you not think he would have tried to after his lightning proved ineffective?
Originally posted by Nephthys
They were fighting some dudes together and Anakin gets insanely pissed off because A'Sharad is a sand person so he attacks him too, but soon gets disarmed and humbled.Star Wars: Republic 59: Enemy Lines
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah. Kit Fisto is Obi-Wans equal imo and would beat Savage as comfortably as Kenobi did.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Huh? If you meant 'no-one said he could', then you did say he could trash them.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't particularly care if you don't accept that.