Originally posted by ares834
No. But he did use it to bring Cade to the brink of death and, had he wished, Krayt could have used it to kill him.
Actually, he did use it in combat--You know, practically killing Cade and using it to bring him back at the last possible instant. It does require physical contact, though.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Actually, he did use it in combat--You know, practically killing Cade and using it to bring him back at the last possible instant. It does require physical contact, though.
Read what Intrepid asked.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Has Krayt succesfully killed with Dark transfer mid-combat?
Originally posted by ares834
laughcry😂
Originally posted by Nephthys
Krayt probably. Dark transfer is a kill if he can touch you right?
Originally posted by Q99
Considering he conquered the galaxy and accomplished more than all but a few sith, yes, certainly.
It was obvious that fall of competitors such as Vader, Sidious, Kun, UnuThul, Caedus and Abeloth would pave way for one of the "lesser ones" to exploit a galaxy in turmoil. I am not trying to assert that Krayt is a looser but he doesn't appears to be among the most capable Sith Lords of all times.
Originally posted by Q99
Sidious's predecessors never mentioned Sidious as one of the strongest, and for the exact same reason.
Originally posted by Q99
I will note that Darth Andeddu was noted as a standout by Dooku for the power of his sorcery and for being so feared during his time in the ancient Sith Empire, and Darth Andeddu lost to Wyyrlok, who in turn is weaker than Krayt.
However, put Andeddu in Vitiate's Sith Empire and he is toast; Vitiate set a new standard for Sith:
Star Wars: The Old Republic: EncyclopediaFor 20 years, the exiled Sith fleet drifted through deep space. The Sith healed their wounds and reflected on their defeat. Imperial battle strategies were dissected, internal Sith strife was identified as a key weakness, and the Republic's surprise and slow move to defend itself was seen as a vulnerability ripe to exploit.
Meanwhile, the Sith dedicated themselves to training. They delved deep into the dark side of the Force, mastered new powers, and honed their bodies and minds into efficient weapons. Then, after nearly two decades of planning and training, they discovered the world of Dromund Kaas.
Keep in mind that the aforementioned "additional improvement" is on top of the "previous improvement" of Sith in times after Andeddu's reign. And after Vitiate established his Sith Empire, Sith progressed even further, producing generation after generation of some of the most powerful dark side practitioners ever to grace the galaxy. So Wyyrlok's victory over Andeddu doesn't impresses me very much. He himself wouldn't be a big deal in lets say Vitiate's Sith Empire. Same is true for Krayt.
Originally posted by Q99
The circumstance of a strong Jedi order and a stable Galactic Alliance, before he acted.He made his circumstances. He caused the fall of the Jedi and for the galaxy to turn against the Alliance and to the Empire, which he then took.
Originally posted by Q99
Are you criticizing Krayt for not having a big impact in eras he wasn't in? I will note Malgus had zero impact on the KotoR era or Clone Wars era.
Originally posted by Q99
Krayt even before his era proper fought the Abeloth and was considered powerful by Luke (too powerful to be one of the Lost Tribe of the Sith, who did put up a fight against many of Luke's order). In his own era, when he was ready to strike, he destroyed half the Jedi and conquered the galaxy. The primary reason there are not more Jedi is because he and his Sith killed them. Also, Jedi and Sith from the past kept popping up to fight him, to add to the competition beyond his own Jedi and Imperial Knight foes.
Lost Tribe of the Sith never impressed me. It was representative of one of the "decaying remnants" of the Sith from ancient times who were a bunch of nobodies until found.
Originally posted by Q99
His impact in his era surpasses Malgus's during his.
Originally posted by Q99
He never compared them. Though, Muur has great healing power, and Vader's the chosen one. Of course a healthy (or at least, healthier, don't think he could do limbs but he could at least heal up most of the burns) Vader would be better, healthy chosen one >> everyone.
Originally posted by Q99
For the last century or so, Krayt had been infected by Vong growths, and constantly had to fight against him, limited his force power by requiring constant effort. Upon his encounter with Muur, he was not only freed of the Vong growths thanks to Muur's healing, but combining what he saw of Muur's technique with the knowledge of the immortal Sith Andeddu and of Cade Skywalker's healing technique he was able to pass through death and self-resurrect using the dark transfer technique, gaining knowledge through the passage itself.
Malgus also sustained through lot of life-threatening injuries with his fury (his body had to be mechanically stitched eventually) but he functioned properly with his sheer mastery of the dark side. Heck, Malak lost his entire lower jaw and still survived and functioned properly without eating with his sheer mastery of the dark side.
Originally posted by Q99
Upon his revival, his return was felt across the entire galaxy, and when he fought Cade he placed his hand on him and then killed and resurrected him on the spot.
Originally posted by Q99
In short, when Muur actually fought Krayt, it was Krayt hindered by the implants. Upon his resurrection not only was Krayt unleashed at his full, but had learned the mastery over life and death that prior sith like Palpatine so wanted.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So we can safely assume that Krayt can kill anybody with this technique? Sidious? Luke? Vitiate? Yoda? Plagueis? Marr? Nihilus? Decimus? Revan? Abeloth? The Father? The Son? The Daughter?
Perhaps. If they have no knowledge against the technique or how to defend against it I'm unsure of how they would.
Also I'm a little disturbed by you putting Decimus in that list. 😬
Originally posted by Nephthys
Perhaps. If they have no knowledge against the technique or how to defend against it I'm unsure of how they would.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also I'm a little disturbed by you putting Decimus in that list.
Well, the purpose of that list is to make a point.
On side note: Decimus is canonically among the greatest Sith warriors of the mythos. Decimus, Thanaton and Malgus are counted among the "champions of battle" within Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia.
Decimus is known to have fought in the front lines and could collapse armies with his sheer mastery of the dark side:
Darth Decimus, known as "the Bastion Lord" by his troops, has a reputation for leading from the front, charging into battle, and breaking apart enemy lines through sheer force of will.
Only the mightiest of the Force-users are capable of making big impact in battles in this manner, collapsing/defeating whole armies with their exploits and capabilities.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dark Transfer is an ancient Force application; it is not a new invention since its knowledge goes back to era of Force Wars. So I find it hard to believe that most prominent practitioners of the dark side would have no knowledge of it or do not knew how to handle it. Sith (of True Sith Empire) were specially extremely knowleageable in the ways of the dark side. Heck, even Revan acquired enormous wealth of dark side knowledge during his short reign as Sith.
No it's not. Cade Skywalker was the first user of Dark Transfer. Krayt uses knowledge of older sith healing to improve it, but he's the only other known user.
It's a technique created during the Legacy era. Quite notably, not even Sidious achieved it, and we all know how much he was into life extension.
So we can safely assume that Krayt can kill anybody with this technique? Sidious? Luke? Vitiate? Yoda? Plagueis? Marr? Nihilus? Decimus? Revan? Abeloth? The Father? The Son? The Daughter?
Perhaps not Abeloth or the Ones, since they're freaky... though, maybe.
But the mortals? Sure, as long as he gets a good hand on them, of course they'd die.
A galaxy which had been previously ravaged by lot of wars and Abeloth's exploits? I am not impressed.
War often makes force users stronger, and few of the top Jedi were killed in those conflicts, so they retained their skill to pass on. The New Jedi Order was a very strong era for the Jedi that accumulated knowledge from many sources and eras and had incredible combat skills.
Also, there was time to heal, the Jedi order was about ten thousand strong (trained by Luke's impressive students) when the Sith struck. Plus there was the Imperial Knights as well.
It was obvious that fall of competitors such as Vader, Sidious, Kun, UnuThul, Caedus and Abeloth would pave way for one of the "lesser ones" to exploit a galaxy in turmoil. I am not trying to assert that Krayt is a looser but he doesn't appears to be among the most capable Sith Lords of all times.
Do you not know that Legacy takes place well after Caedus's rise? It wasn't in turmoil before the One Sith made it in turmoil, Caedus's time was most of a century past and the turmoil had long since died down. And the stuff after Caedus hasn't caused major galactic chaos.
The Lost Tribe were lesser ones who struck when things were in turmoil caused by others, and they failed. Krayt did not wait for an opportunity, he made it, and he succeeded.
When Luke met Krayt, he could tell he was too strong to be of the Lost Tribe, and talked about the balance between himself and Krayt serving as the new "Ones". Luke Skywalker gives him props.
You just seem to be assuming he's weak based on... well, nothing that I can find, just era bias.
He's both conquered the galaxy and achieved force powers that no Sith before him did.
I don't recall that anybody (a Sith Lord in particular) who succeeded Sidious was ranking his predecessors.
You're trying to rank Krayt low based on him not being ranked by people who existed before him. Excuse me for pointing out the inconsistencies.
Wyyrlok lost to Krayt in a very close contest. Also, I am not sure if Sith during Andeddu's time were remarkably strong or something.
Wyyrlok, a Legacy sith, lost to Krayt in a close combat. Andeddu lost to Wyyrlok in a flat-out stomp.
And Andeddu's power and sorcery was famous enough that Dooku was talking about it six thousand years later, and people often mention how the Sith of the ancient empire were powerful (Kreia certainly does, and we know other strong sith from it).
Andeddu was strong enough during his time of the Empire that the other Sith had to gang up on him to beat him.
Now, obviously, Andeddu's era wasn't one of the strongest... because even the best of his era was quite below the top Legacy era characters. When the best of an era is well outmatched in their own specialty, that's a pretty good gap.
So the galaxy was perfectly healthy after all of the previous wars and Abeloth's exploits? Give me a break.
Caedus's death: 41 ABY. Krayt's rise: 130 ABY.
That is 89 years, multiple generations. And Abeloth didn't actually cause much galactic damage, in large part thanks to Krayt.
Now, if Krayt had taken over in ABY 60-70 like in Jacen's vision, you'd have more of an argument... though in that timeline Jacen wouldn't have fallen and become Caedus anyway.
No, in times of Vader, Sidious, Kun, UnuThul, Caedus, Abeloth and vice versa.
Time of Vader- obviously not near his full power, still a Jedi. Beat Aurra Sing and Anakin Skywalker in fights. Known to be an era with high lightsaber skill.
UnuThul- The leader of a minor conflict. So? Krayt was training under XoXaan at the time, and had he not been, hardly worth his time. Krayt had no reason to get involved.
Caedus- Was the actual reason Caedus turned Darkside. Jacen saw a vision of Krayt conquering the galaxy and turning his daughter to the dark, and thus turned Sith to try and prevent it.
Abeloth- Beat Abeloth with Luke. Seriously, how can you can call that no impact when he and Luke double-teamed the big bad and took her down and his presence was crucial to the victory?
Kun- .... 4,000 years before he was born.
Legacy- Conquered the galaxy, the second largest conquests of any Sith. The only ones with conquests that can be compared are Revan, Vitiate, Ruin, and of course the champion of the category, Sidious. Every last one of them exceptional.
Your standards are weird.
----
Krayt's the most powerful of an era that stands well above some other eras, and people like Luke and Jacen saw him as quite powerful even in his pre-resurrection period.
Malgus is from a highly competitive era, sure, but he's very much not the most powerful in it, so it really doesn't say as much as you think it says. Malgus is not Vitiate, and while Krayt's not Vitiate either, as a sith both his power and especially impact stand up there.
Krayt's impact exceeded Malgus's by a lot.
Originally posted by Q99
No it's not. Cade Skywalker was the first user of Dark Transfer. Krayt uses knowledge of older sith healing to improve it, but he's the only other known user.It's a technique created during the Legacy era. Quite notably, not even Sidious achieved it, and we all know how much he was into life extension.
This revelation;
"I got this crazy healing ability. I can see the weak points in you like little broken red lines! I can see where you got wounded recently. Someone smack you during a sparring session? Bet it was Nihl. I could heal that hurt. Pour the Force into the place where the red lines intersect. Or—and here's a new idea—Maybe I could explode that point. Kill you. Interesting idea. Should we try?"
- suggests that Dark Transfer is a healing application which can be used for offensive/destructive purposes as well. This application is very similar to the ancient Dark Healing application in nature. So what is so special about it and why should we assume that their is no counter to it?
Originally posted by Q99
Perhaps not Abeloth or the Ones, since they're freaky... though, maybe.But the mortals? Sure, as long as he gets a good hand on them, of course they'd die.
Analogy: Darth Malak was a practitioner of Dark Healing application and he used it to his advantage during his final confrontation with Revan but still lost.
Originally posted by Q99
War often makes force users stronger, and few of the top Jedi were killed in those conflicts, so they retained their skill to pass on. The New Jedi Order was a very strong era for the Jedi that accumulated knowledge from many sources and eras and had incredible combat skills.Also, there was time to heal, the Jedi order was about ten thousand strong (trained by Luke's impressive students) when the Sith struck. Plus there was the Imperial Knights as well.
The Jedi Order which Krayt dealt with was not battle-hardened, it seems. Also, previous wars left fractures in the Republic and Jedi Order which were exploited by Krayt:
"Lingering hatred festered on worlds that had suffered heavily at the hands of the Yuuzhan Vong. That hatred gave us our opening. We manufactured a cause for war, making the Vong seem responsible. Split, the Galactic Alliance began to fight itself. And so died."
All of the developments during Luke's time set the stage for rise of Krayt. Without these developments, it is doubtful that Krayt would have risen to prominence.
Originally posted by Q99
Do you not know that Legacy takes place well after Caedus's rise? It wasn't in turmoil before the One Sith made it in turmoil, Caedus's time was most of a century past and the turmoil had long since died down. And the stuff after Caedus hasn't caused major galactic chaos.
Originally posted by Q99
The Lost Tribe were lesser ones who struck when things were in turmoil caused by others, and they failed. Krayt did not wait for an opportunity, he made it, and he succeeded.
Originally posted by Q99
When Luke met Krayt, he could tell he was too strong to be of the Lost Tribe, and talked about the balance between himself and Krayt serving as the new "Ones". Luke Skywalker gives him props.
Originally posted by Q99
You just seem to be assuming he's weak based on... well, nothing that I can find, just era bias.
In versus threads, you have history of supporting Krayt over virtually every Force-user barring select few individuals such as Sidious, The Ones and Luke. This is not a wise pattern.
Originally posted by Q99
He's both conquered the galaxy and achieved force powers that no Sith before him did.
Kyrat does gets the nod for not being a looser and the best of his era but he isn't such a big deal that you are trying to make him out to be.
Originally posted by Q99
You're trying to rank Krayt low based on him not being ranked by people who existed before him. Excuse me for pointing out the inconsistencies.
Originally posted by Q99
Wyyrlok, a Legacy sith, lost to Krayt in a close combat. Andeddu lost to Wyyrlok in a flat-out stomp.And Andeddu's power and sorcery was famous enough that Dooku was talking about it six thousand years later, and people often mention how the Sith of the ancient empire were powerful (Kreia certainly does, and we know other strong sith from it).
And Kriea referred to era of Tulak Hord with that statement.
Originally posted by Q99
Andeddu was strong enough during his time of the Empire that the other Sith had to gang up on him to beat him.
Originally posted by Q99
Now, obviously, Andeddu's era wasn't one of the strongest... because even the best of his era was quite below the top Legacy era characters. When the best of an era is well outmatched in their own specialty, that's a pretty good gap.
Originally posted by Q99
Caedus's death: 41 ABY. Krayt's rise: 130 ABY.
Jedi Order was not battle-hardened during Krayt's time then.
Originally posted by Q99
That is 89 years, multiple generations. And Abeloth didn't actually cause much galactic damage, in large part thanks to Krayt.
Originally posted by Q99
Now, if Krayt had taken over in ABY 60-70 like in Jacen's vision, you'd have more of an argument... though in that timeline Jacen wouldn't have fallen and become Caedus anyway.
Originally posted by Q99
Time of Vader- obviously not near his full power, still a Jedi. Beat Aurra Sing and Anakin Skywalker in fights. Known to be an era with high lightsaber skill.UnuThul- The leader of a minor conflict. So? Krayt was training under XoXaan at the time, and had he not been, hardly worth his time. Krayt had no reason to get involved.
Caedus- Was the actual reason Caedus turned Darkside. Jacen saw a vision of Krayt conquering the galaxy and turning his daughter to the dark, and thus turned Sith to try and prevent it.
Abeloth- Beat Abeloth with Luke. Seriously, how can you can call that no impact when he and Luke double-teamed the big bad and took her down and his presence was crucial to the victory?
Kun- .... 4,000 years before he was born.
And what is this excuse about Krayt training under Mr. A and Mr. B and not being able to do much during these times?
Malgus, in his first major mission outside Sith Empire, struck down a remarkably powerful and skilled Jedi Master, killed lot of other opponents and retook Korriban. Keep in mind that he was still an apprentice during this time.
Originally posted by Q99
Legacy- Conquered the galaxy, the second largest conquests of any Sith. The only ones with conquests that can be compared are Revan, Vitiate, Ruin, and of course the champion of the category, Sidious. Every last one of them exceptional.Your standards are weird.
Originally posted by Q99
Krayt's the most powerful of an era that stands well above some other eras, and people like Luke and Jacen saw him as quite powerful even in his pre-resurrection period.
Originally posted by Q99
Malgus is from a highly competitive era, sure, but he's very much not the most powerful in it, so it really doesn't say as much as you think it says. Malgus is not Vitiate, and while Krayt's not Vitiate either, as a sith both his power and especially impact stand up there.
Originally posted by Q99
Krayt's impact exceeded Malgus's by a lot.
Based on holistic evidence, Malgus would crush Krayt after some fight. The latter have never fought opponents on level of Malgus and prevailed and neither he packs such a punch.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My point is that Malgus have remarkable accomplishments under his belt in an era in which even icons of other eras could not flourish well. Put Krayt in the same era and watch him die.Both lived in different eras and faced challenges; the latter much more tougher ones. So this black and white comparison is silly.
Based on holistic evidence, Malgus would crush Krayt after some fight. The latter have never fought opponents on level of Malgus and prevailed and neither he packs such a punch.
I wouldn't consider Zallow or Darach on Dooku level in sabers, but like you said, Malgus has been fighting for 20 years or so. He's arguably the 3rd best Djem So practicioner to ever live. Malgus even got his perma boost at the end of Deceived. And didn't he kill 2 Jedi effortlessly after getting nuked by Satele's TK?
Originally posted by XRKun I wouldn't consider Zallow or Darach on Dooku level in sabers, but like you said, Malgus has been fighting for 20 years or so. He's arguably the 3rd best Djem So practicioner to ever live. Malgus even got his perma boost at the end of Deceived. And didn't he kill 2 Jedi effortlessly after getting nuked by Satele's TK?
And yes, Malgus fought two more Jedi after his disastrous confrontation with Satele Shan on Aldeeran and slaughtered both of them regardless of being heavily injured in this case/scenario. In-fact, one of these Jedi was (evidently) a powerhouse and still lost. This level of performance/display of power alone should give second-thoughts to people about Malgus's power (in positive manner) but it is often unfortunately under-appreciated.
On side note: Decimus is canonically among the greatest Sith warriors of the mythos.
Only thing Decimus got going for him is that his name matches the Gladiator's middle...besides that, I say the Exile could beat him. 😂
He posed no threat to Abeloth on his own. That entity was defeated by combined efforts of many Force-users. Krayt survived during his encounter with Abeloth with aid of Luke. It is nonetheless an impressive performance from him but not enough to declare him a standout.
Wrong. Luke survived against Abeloth on the final encounter at the end only thanks to Krayt draining the life out of Abeloth...even from then, Krayt walked away from the fight while Luke needed to be inspired to continue to move from the spirit of Mara.
Honestly, I'm going with Krayt on this one. His force abilies are a much greater range and variety then Malgus's, and though he lacks Malgus's pure rage, he is a very capable and deadly fighter.
"I completed my training as both Jedi and Sith. I honed my skills during the Clone Wars and have killed thousands of opponents since then."
Anyway, a better fight would be Darth Bane vs Malgus, I feel we can compare them easier. 😉
PS: Oh and correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Malgus only stalemate a neophyte padawan in his OWN novel... 😆
She was hardly a neophyte.
And Malgus pwned a Jedi Knight who collapsed two buildings on top of him in The Third Lesson. While he was gravely injured from his fight with Satele in the Hope trailer. He's nothing to laugh at.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dark Transfer is an ancient Force application; it is not a new invention since its knowledge goes back to era of Force Wars. So I find it hard to believe that most prominent practitioners of the dark side would have no knowledge of it or do not knew how to handle it. Sith (of True Sith Empire) were specially extremely knowleageable in the ways of the dark side. Heck, even Revan acquired enormous wealth of dark side knowledge during his short reign as Sith.
I'm going to trust Q99 on this one, since he's the most knowledgable on Krayt and the Legacy era. Although I am interested in Tempests opinion now.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
😄Well, the purpose of that list is to make a point.
On side note: Decimus is canonically among the greatest Sith warriors of the mythos.
No, he isn't. That he stood out in the Old Republic era doesn't make him comparable to the other on that list. He's Dark Council level, and while that is high, it does not make him one of the best in the mythos.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Decimus, Thanaton and Malgus are counted among the "champions of battle" within Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia.
Not really any more impressive than him just being on the Dark Council imo.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Decimus is known to have fought in the front lines and could collapse armies with his sheer mastery of the dark side:Darth Decimus, known as "the Bastion Lord" by his troops, has a reputation for leading from the front, charging into battle, and breaking apart enemy lines through sheer force of will.
Only the mightiest of the Force-users are capable of making big impact in battles in this manner, collapsing/defeating whole armies with their exploits and capabilities.
Again, not especially impressive. Breaking enemy lines is something I'd expect any good Sith to be able to do.