Originally posted by Q99
The thing is, old Roger is still a peer in power to Shanks and the like. He's old, but his power has not degraded all that much.And Sengoku wasn't nearly as old, still physically great shape, yet not as decisive in Marineford as Hashirama or Madara's abilities would be- the Valley of the End those two made utterly dwarfs the chasm that Whitebeard made, after all.
me: ROGER IS FEATLESS, we dont know how strong he is, except in prime he rivaled whitebeard who could destroy the planet. sengoku isnt as strong as he was, no matter how much or little, secondly did you not see that i said whitebeard could destroy the planet. this is fact.
Six Paths Obito? His disintigration attacks would obliterate the logia without them being able to regen, juubi biju ball's destructive power not only surpass Akainu's, Kizaru's, Mihawk's, Whitebeard's, etc. combined, but does so many times over, his defense is massive, and yadda yadda.
me: i dont know if obito could harm logias, but he is extremely powerful right now. but i like OP more so its natural that i would believe he couldnt beat all of them.
Naruto deflected six biju balls at once, and each of those 6 could've destroyed Marineford's entire battle area. And Obito is much stronger than that.
me: i thought it was five. and whitebeard could have destroyed the planet sooooo...
And one other factor? High-tier speed Naruto characters are faster than OP speed according to obd.
me: true, but what can they do to someone lightspeed?
The thing is, even the top shown OP feats are less impressive than Madara's, which are less impressive than Naruto's, which are considerably less powerful than Obito's.
me: we havent even seen what people like shanks, kaido, dragon, kong, and gorosei can do. so we havent scratched the surface
We know we haven't see the *very* best of OP, but we aren't all that far from it. You're asking for us to assume not just a little more power, but far more.
we are actually 10 years from it, if we wait for OP to be 95% over like naruto, then we could do this again.
Originally posted by Q99
One Piece's only real hope is the as-yet unrevealed superweapons.Though the one 'superweapon' shown so far isn't too impressive, perhaps the others are closer, and could maybe make a fight of it.
Stupid hax powers can actually make a difference too. Naruto has its own set of stupid hax powers, but none of those we've seen are nearly as broken as Kuma's -except maybe resurrecting people? It isn't presented as a particularly practical thing to do, but it's a powerful effect-.
Kakashi's Kamui is a better BFR technique for a one on one battle than Kuma's Paw Paw Fruit because Kuma has only been seen teleporting somebody when he gets right up in their face. It is superior in that it has no apparent limit like Kamui. In a battle against an army Kuma would perform better than Kakashi. It's apples and oranges.
Kuma's porting would give the OP side an advantage but once the threat is assessed Kuma would be taken out.
Even though I think Naruto's top tier is >>> One Piece's top tier I still think the One Piece verse would win. Sure you got Kakashi being able to port large objects at high speeds but then you have folks like Law, Doflamingo, and Whitebeard of all people to deal with. Plus One Piece fodder & mid-tier >>> Naruto's that is if we let people like Kizaru and Eneru in this rumble too.
Also Boa would make great crowd control and then there's Shirahoshi's giant Sea-Kings and what not.
Sure you got Kakashi being able to port large objects at high speeds but then you have folks like Law, Doflamingo, and Whitebeard of all people to deal with.
Ok? Naruto himself can handle each of those pretty easy, as could Madara and ObitoJinchuuriki.
Naruto himself is a rather devastating foe because he can *make* dozens of copies each of whom are a threat to a shichibukai while still being completely expendable, plus his cloak mode can roll over literally anyone yet shown in OP.
Plus One Piece fodder & mid-tier >>> Naruto's that is if we let people like Kizaru and Eneru in this rumble too.
One Piece's fodder is useless. Naruto's fodder in big groups can at least do combo jutsu and stuff.
Don't forget hax abilities like possession and mind control as well.
Naruto's 'mid tier' includes a heck of a lot of people with city-busting attacks like biju balls.
Kizaru's one of OP's strongest, and him and Enel are the only two known with energy-type abilities. They aren't really enough, not against all the powers they'd be arrayed at.
then there's Shirahoshi's giant Sea-Kings and what not.
Of whom multiple of Naruto's high tiers could solo.
Originally posted by Q99
Ok? Naruto himself can handle each of those pretty easy, as could Madara and ObitoJinchuuriki.Naruto himself is a rather devastating foe because he can *make* dozens of copies each of whom are a threat to a shichibukai while still being completely expendable, plus his cloak mode can roll over literally anyone yet shown in OP.
One Piece's fodder is useless. Naruto's fodder in big groups can at least do combo jutsu and stuff.
Don't forget hax abilities like possession and mind control as
I made a thread with naruto vs doffy and it was agreed to be close at the end,
Law can make easy picking of those clones as could rayleigh's conquerers haki because laws fruit can cut through the highest durability a best haki shown in the new world to date, but oda said himelf that rayleigh would have KOd everyone on fishman island
Narutos fodder what was what gave opverse the victory 2 years ago, its because tenten, kiba, bugfag, etc were useless. I even put usopp above shikamaru
And doffy's mind control >>>> then narutoverses
Originally posted by AuraAngel
If Pacifista are considered fodder than the fodder is not completely useless.
They're an elite unit of which there's only 20~ of (at least at first).
While no longer major threats, they're still quite significant.
LuffyGeari cant lie, the more i think about this. with people in one busting mountains, and even supposedly the planet. with more feats of the unknowns, this would be closer than what you guys think.
Naruto deflected 6 attacks at once, each individually bigger than anything Whitebeard, Luffy, or *anyone else in OP* has done.
Originally posted by Q99
Kuma's is nice, but it can be dodged. His ranged attacks lack the hax factor.Pre-skip Zoro's speed and skill was sufficient to land one good hit on him and avoid a fair number of his attacks.
I was not arguing about Kuma being that important in the big picture, just saying that if more hax abilities are introduced further in OP, they can become deal breakers (regarding your post saying the only remaining factor that might tip things in OP's favor being the superweapons).
Originally posted by Luffygear4
I made a thread with naruto vs doffy and it was agreed to be close at the end,
Not unless you're talking, say, Sage Naruto.
Doflamingo's got no chance against Naruto. It is seriously not remotely close, Doflamingo has no defense against a biju ball, nor can he deal with a half-dozen high-end clones at once. Plus, Naruto's chakra cloak gives him far higher durability, enough to shrug anything that Doflamingo has ever thrown (it deflects Biju balls, which are nuclear-level big mountain busting).
For all the Doflamingo arguments people brought up in that thread, no-one came up with a way for Doflamingo to deal with Naruto's game winners. If you came to the conclusion that there was agreement that it was close, you overlooked some major parts.
Law can make easy picking of those clones as could rayleigh's conquerers haki because laws fruit can cut through the highest durability a best haki shown in the new world to date, but oda said himelf that rayleigh would have KOd everyone on fishman island
One, Law still does have to actually cut stuff, he did not have an easy time with Vergo and his armament Haki remember.
Two, conquerer's haki is going to be useless against clones, they're as strong-willed as Naruto. Especially the high-end clones, who are the equivalent of S-class ninja in their own right.
Narutos fodder what was what gave opverse the victory 2 years ago, its because tenten, kiba, bugfag, etc were useless. I even put usopp above shikamaru
What? I'm seriously not sure what you're trying to say there.
Fodder, as in rank and file marines and ninja, ninja are better. The likes of Kiba/Shikamaru/etc. are not fodder, but not high-end ones.
2 years ago, OP won because it had more people with high destruction feats, like Whitebeard, the admirals, and so on.
Since then, multiple characters have feats that blow anything in OP out of the water, and has shown generally higher speed in it's high-end ones too.
There are characters who can *spam* attacks bigger than anything Whitebeard's done! The combined power of two admirals fighting in an epic duel caused less damage than one of Naruto's bijul balls. Etc. etc..
And doffy's mind control >>>> then narutoverses
One, Doflamingo doesn't use mind control, he uses invisible strings to control people's limbs.
Two, he doesn't always successfully attach them to foes in combat, especially stronger ones, using the strings as more direct weapons.
Three, a lot of characters in Narutoverse do have mind control.
Four, Naruto himself is too strong to be grabbed, can make chakra-arms whenever he wants, can make more of himself that wouldn't be grabbed, and can simply blow up Doflamingo even if grabbed. It'd fail on three grounds just on the one character.
Doflamingo, if plopped into Narutoverse, would be strong... but just S-class strong. The super high end characters like Naruto, Hashirama, and Madara wouldn't have any trouble with him. Let alone Jinchuuriki Obito.
Originally posted by Bentley
I was not arguing about Kuma being that important in the big picture, just saying that if more hax abilities are introduced further in OP, they can become deal breakers (regarding your post saying the only remaining factor that might tip things in OP's favor being the superweapons).
The thing is... Naruto has a ton of hax abilities too.
Remember the sealing jar? Know someone's name, and insta-win. The soul-eating dragons that come from the Gedo Statue? The possession abilities? Including the one by the Root ninja that activated if someone attacked a decoy. Itachi's various mind hax. And so on. Many of which aren't even unique.
OP is currently at a hax deficit as well as a power deficit.
Originally posted by Q99
The thing is... Naruto has a ton of hax abilities too.Remember the sealing jar? Know someone's name, and insta-win. The soul-eating dragons that come from the Gedo Statue? The possession abilities? Including the one by the Root ninja that activated if someone attacked a decoy. Itachi's various mind hax. And so on. Many of which aren't even unique.
OP is currently at a hax deficit as well as a power deficit.
Possesion abilities and genjutsu in general are not all that haxxy to be honest,, powerful yes, but the limited area of effect of most of them makes them rather fair. The Sealing Jar is pretty broken though, it's almost stupid on propose
Anyways, I think Naruto has powerful hax, but it makes a much bigger effort to keep it rather balanced in universe. Hax stuff is specially dangerous when it makes no sense and doesn't have known limitations. Naruto is actually rather fair when it comes to hax. OP might have less hax, but it's haxxier.
Edit: Again, my argument is about OP getting more hax in the future.
BentleyPossesion abilities and genjutsu in general are not all that haxxy to be honest,, powerful yes, but the limited area of effect of most of them makes them rather fair.
The alliance noted that Itachi could mind control people without even being seen. Heck, with Hinata's help Ino hit Obito from, what, a kilometer or two out?
And the same can be said of the OP hax- most of it is limited in range. Doflamingo's definitely. Even Kuma's may have a lot of hax effects, but they all require a direct paw-hit to do all but the non-hax attacks.
Don't forget Naruto Space-Time hax as well. Kakashi's kamui is more of an insta-kill hax than, well, anything in OP. Heck, Dust jutsu is pretty hax in that respect too... and Naruto literally has an invisible flying guy that can just *erase* large areas.
Then there's Rinnegan, that comes with both offensive and defensive hax at high level, from soul-ripping to attack absorbing to gravity bursts.
I'm disagreeing on your view that OP is haxxier, in other words, commonness of hax aside.
Edit: Again, my argument is about OP getting more hax in the future.
We're likely to see some other hax devilfruits. But range constraint seems pretty universal, and each one is only a single person to boot.
We also know that the Quake fruit and the elemental logia fruit are enough to be considered some of the most powerful people on the planet. That level of power is enough to face off against OP's hax, in other words.