Kurse VS The Hulk

Originally posted by Zack Fair
When Thor was trying to reason with him in attempt to calm him down and all he got for his efforts was a left hook.

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That wasn't a sucker punch any more than Thor hitting Hulk with his hammer. They were actively fighting at the time and Thor was using both arms to block Hulk's previous blow.

I did say "if anything" when I first brought it up.

I take that one as more of a sucker punch than the hammer one tbh.

Originally posted by ares834
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That wasn't a sucker punch any more than Thor hitting Hulk with his hammer. They were actively fighting at the time and Thor was using both arms to block Hulk's previous blow.

Yes it was. Thor had already finished blocking Hulk's blow, now he was just holding on to Hulk's arm, not launching any offensive, and was trying to talk to him. Hulk punched him while he was in the middle of talking. That's a sucker punch.

When Thor hit Hulk with Mjolnir, Hulk was charging and attacking Thor.

Hitting someone while someone is talking to you is quite different from hitting someone when someone is attacking you

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Maybe my head having trouble differentiating between terms, but Thor was unarmed one minute, and wielding a weapon next, and Hulk didn't see the weapon in his hand. Would it have made Hulk stop charging? Probably not, he is Hulk after all. It's a difference in expected retaliation, though.

That's not considered a sucker punch though. Thor could have as easily delivered an uppercut with his fist, just now it added a lot of oomph. At most you could say that it surprised Hulk, the same way a knee to the groin would surprise you if you were expecting a right cross instead. It's about as equal as when Hulk threw that airplane wing at Thor.

Uh, my point was quite simple. Neither of those are sucker punches... At all.

The reason Thor wasn't launching an offensive was because he was unable to as he was using both arms to hold back Hulk. At the time though, they were still both fighting each other and Hulk was trying to crush Thor down with his right arm.

Originally posted by ares834
Uh, my point was quite simple. Neither of those are sucker punches... At all.

The reason Thor wasn't launching an offensive was because he was unable to as he was using both arms to hold back Hulk. At the time though, they were still both fighting each other and Hulk was trying to crush Thor down with his right arm.

You're not getting it are you? When someone is trying to talk to you and then you hit them, that's a sucker punch. When someone is attacking you and you hit them with a weapon, that's only considered a sucker punch when you're fighting with rules.

Thor wasn't launching an offensive because he was trying to talk Hulk down. If he wanted to he could have just dropped Hulk's arm to the side and dived to the other side to get him back in fighting form. Anyone with decent fighting skills could manage that move. Considering what we've seen Thor display, I have no doubt that he could have escaped from that position if he wanted to.

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Originally posted by FrothByte
You're not getting it are you? When someone is trying to talk to you and then you hit them, that's a sucker punch. When someone is attacking you and you hit them with a weapon, that's only considered a sucker punch when you're fighting with rules.

Um, they were fighting when Hulk nailed Thor. Sure, Thor was also talking but that means jack shit as they were still fighting. As I've said before, Thor was physically struggling against Hulk when the punch came in. As usual the Thor-brigade continues to make bull shit excuses for their God of Thunder.

And once again, I've never claimed Thor using the hammer was a sucker punch...

IMHO the fight was all from Hulk's end at that point. Later on Thor brought the fight when he had enough. Or more like there was not much desire to fight until then.

Nah, Thor was punching Hulk just before that. It just had almost no effect. Sure, when he summoned his hammer he turned up the dials but let's not pretend that Thor wasn't above attacking the Hulk before getting punched.

ok so I noticed people saying Loki stabbing Kruse makes him weaker then hulk which is possible but isn't it possible that the elven sword was just straight up sharp enough to stab through him?

I say Hulk wins but he would certainly have more trouble with Kruse then when he fought Thor.

never said that.

It was obvious there was no much fight though. He punched him once and got Hulk to twirl like a ballerina. Then he blocked that 2nd blow and tried to reason and got a bloody nose for his effort.

IMHO it is the bigger sucker punch, but you don't see it that way so whatever.

Hulk was actively charging at Thor.

Hell, when Thor struck Hulk, Hulk was landing a punch. Thor was just faster wit his attack.

When Hulk punched Thor, the Odinson was actively trying to reason with him. I don't know if I'd call either a sucker punch but the major difference between those two scenes is that Hulk was actively attacking while Thor was trying his best to calm Banner down.

If you're going to call the hammer uppercut a sucker shot, then the punch Hulk threw easily qualifies.

Originally posted by janus77
IIRC "No Asgardian weapon can kill you" or words to that effect, were said by Malekeith, to The Kursed. This was during the first Bor-fight and again afterwards but before the attack on Asgard.

It was specifically "Asgard" that he mentioned.

I remember this because, at the time I made a mental note of the cliche and figured that it would end with Jane sticking a big-ass sword through Kurse and killing him (ofcourse, that wasn't how he died but it was a case of non-Asgardian weaponry doing the deed).

I just came back from watching the movie. This never happened.

However, during the scene where he cuts Algrim open and shoves the stone inside of him, he says that no power that their enemies can muster will be able to stop him or something of that sort. Before he is consumed from within that is. How you took that to mean that the Kursed are specifically immune to Asgardian weaponry is beyond me.

From what I gather, the Kursed sacrifice their own life force for a temporarily massive boost in power. In turn, it seems they can drain the life force from others.

I was pretty certain he said "Asgard", not just enemies and he said it more than once.

I'll watch it again (when I can get hold of it on dl), but I definitely remember it being said more than once.

And it pretty much was depicted as no weapons of Asgard working but some random sword not of Asgard being able to hurt him.

An Asgardian blade cut into him, but it was just his shoulder.

No one was given an opportunity to attack him like Loki had.

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Still, I don't see him suffered fatal damage even after he was stabbed.

Originally posted by ares834
Um, they were fighting when Hulk nailed Thor. Sure, Thor was also talking but that means jack shit as they were still fighting. As I've said before, Thor was physically struggling against Hulk when the punch came in. As usual the Thor-brigade continues to make bull shit excuses for their God of Thunder.

And once again, I've never claimed Thor using the hammer was a sucker punch...

Yeah whatever. You ever get punched while you're busy talking and let's see you not call that a cheap shot.

Anyway...

Kurse wins.

Hulk wins.

Originally posted by FrothByte
You're jumping to conclusions. The line "No power of our enemies will stop you" is a vary vague statement. Just because "our enemy can't stop you" doesn't mean "you can be stopped by someone who is not our enemy". If I said something like "I've trained to fight my enemies" you can't automatically assume that I'm weak against non-enemies.

But if you want to tackle it from a different angle try this: Thor took Hulk's punch full to the face. All he got was a slightly bloody nose. No broken lip, no bruised face, no black eye. Yet Loki easily stabbed Thor with his knife. Stabbed him with little effort right through his armor. Would you therefore say that Loki's blades > Hulk's punch? A sharp weapon behaves differently from a blunt weapon. And these superheroes seem to display different durability depending on whether an attack is blunt, sharp, or explosive, etc.

So Loki stabbing Kurse is not a mere thing.

So unless Hulk somehow manages to get his hands on a magical elven blade, I don't see how he's winning this.

Thank you for the reasonable post.

The assumption that "dark elf blade stabbed Kurse, therefore, Hulk can punch him to death" is fundamentally flawed. This shouldn't be a point of contention since it's common sense, but some people claim otherwise.

People are being too specific and too literal with Malekith's quote, and furthermore Thor is a very valid benchmark for both movie Hulk and Kurse at this junction. Thor, while not going all out on Hulk, managed to handle his punches, even blocked a full on punch IIRC, and was barely battered comparatively. And this is before he gets dropped from near-orbit in that glasslike prison that SHIELD had designed specifically with Hulk in mind.

Meanwhile, Kurse smacks Mjolnir out of his face and then beats Thor into a pulp. The damage sustained by Thor is exponentially higher than what he sustained by Hulk, and in the fight with Kurse he is "going all out". This seems pretty conclusive, unless as I stated before someone has some Hulk-specific evidence that explains why Thor can tank Hulk but not Kurse.