Originally posted by NewGuy01I have, that's where the "like a painter gone blind" quote came from.
He stopped growing stronger? I think you should read Rise of Darth Vader.
The novel gives credence to Sidious designing Vader to have weaknesses to exploit, and Vader having to relearn everything he thought he knew about lightsaber combat. The whole suit was disadvantageous, he did not have the willpower to destroy the Emperor who was his "only remaining link to the living" (Rise and Fall of Darth Vader) - and could not live with himself and did not have the temperment to maintain the rage neccessary even to heal himself of his grevious wounds (Shadows of the Empire). The only advantage he gained from the limbs, despite the lack of motion, came from the faster, more precise, and more powerful lightsaber strikes.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus = Caedus, though I'd say he'd beat him personally. He's just a bit more impressive with his Force abilities than Caedus is imo, is perhaps a bit less skilled in lightsaber combat but he is much better armored so perhaps it evens out.HoT > Krayt. Which Krayt is this btw? He might win if he has his Dark Transfer ability, provided it works through heavy armor.
Revan > Anakin. Blah. BLAH! Yeah, but I still put Revan ahead.
Originally posted by Oneness
Guess the Jedi of the golden age of the Republic era were more selective in their candidates - choosing quality of quantity.
For the record, I've made a list, and there seem to be over twice as many "quality" combatants in the TOR era than there are in the PT era.
From one game.
Originally posted by Nephthys
For the record, I've made a list, and there seem to be over twice as many "quality" combatants in the TOR era than there are in the PT era.From one game.
I'll concede this point, as Jedi are free to leave the order whenever they want - and parents are free to keep them if they choose.
There must have been less recruitment during the PT era if there was in fact only tens of thousands of Jedi.
As for my final call, team 1 should win because Krayt is the weak link. That's as much detail as I care to go into right now.
Originally posted by NephthysIt's more difficult to gauge Star Wars characters than it is to gauge superheroes and the like, which I think is a good thing.
Heh, its funny how everyone seems to disagree on who the weak link is. Interesting how we rate combatants so differently.
It's not all about powerful level, for the most part it is about skill and determination.
For instance, Malgus at the time he lost the strike team would probably lose to OT Vader due to a weakened resolve, but most of the time Malgus would win.
Originally posted by Oneness
It's more difficult to gauge Star Wars characters than it is to gauge superheroes and the like, which I think is a good thing.It's not all about powerful level, for the most part it is about skill and determination.
For instance, Malgus at the time he lost the strike team would probably lose to OT Vader due to a weakened resolve, but most of the time Malgus would win.
How was Malgus' resolve weakened? He's just broke away from the Empire, created his own one and was literally at a high. Had the best stealth fighters at the time, not to mention a great deal of highly skilled aliens the Empire had declined to let work with them. Not to mention becoming the new 'False' Emperor.
If anything, his resolve was rather heightened, because he was fighting extremely strong opponets at end-game peak. Nox, Cipher 9, Champ and 2nd Wrath.
Originally posted by UltimateAnomaly
If anything, his resolve was rather heightened, because he was fighting extremely strong opponets at end-game peak. Nox, Cipher 9, Champ and 2nd Wrath.
His resolve clearly weakened as the battle went on, a fact the team used to their advantage.
Originally posted by Oneness
As Emperor the stakes were at their highest, he couldn't afford to die. Sure at first he was probably pretty confident, but they were putting up a fight.His resolve clearly weakened as the battle went on, a fact the team used to their advantage.
Proof of this, or just assumption?
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Prove what? Anakin's saber feats outclass Revan's completely, and his Force Feats are superior even though that's supposed to be Revan's strong suit. There isn't any explanation needed. Revan's strength is all based on hype.
Revan can subdue Jedi level opponents with relative ease. It is not as if his dueling prowess sucks or something.
Any comparison between Anakin and Revan in the context of dueling prowess is inconclusive. Revan have extraordinary precognitive abilities and reaction rate much like Anakin and he can get very acrobatic in his duels.
Also, Revan's command of the Force is superior to that of Anakin. The latter have some high showings but Revan have showing great deal of consistency in his high showings.
Yes, beating Dooku is a remarkable accomplishment for Anakin but Revan does not shares weaknesses of Dooku and neither he is following some plot to lure Anakin to the dark side in this contest.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yes, maybe. The Hero's best speed feat is blitzing a couple Sith Assassins. Krayt blitzed Imperial Knights with failing health.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
The Hero has collapsed a portion of a ceiling with the Force, Krayt has pulled down pillars and ragdolled powerful Force Users like Cade and Nihl.
This feat isn't indicative of HoT's peak telekinetic proficiency. It is just that HoT arrived in a medical facility whose safety was compromised by gigantic insect like creatures from several locations. HoT sealed these entrances by ripping apart some portions of ceiling of the facility and throwing them upon the entrance points of the creatures.
HoT, in-fact, acquired such telekinetic proficiency that he could perform impressive feats without gestures. As an example, he forcibly shut down a (gigantic) electronic bridge with a mere thought when an army of droids began to cross it, resulting in destruction of this army.
HoT could in-fact kill opponents with a simple telekinetic push. Do not underestimate him.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Hero's got accolades saying he's the most skilled Jedi of his time, but Krayt outclasses every other force user of his time utterly as a duelist, based on his respective battles with Cade and Wyyrlok--Two of the best duelists of the age. As a bonus, Krayt has powerful lightning, Force Illusions, and Dark Transfer which could insta-kill the Hero if he touched him. Not to mention he owns a set of lightsaber-proof armor, though I'm assuming he doesn't have that in this battle.
Hero was a standout in an era filled with powerhouses. Their is a long list.
In contrast, few individuals were powerhouses during Krayt's prime: you identified these individuals yourself.
And Krayt's dark side talents are not going to be a trouble for Hero. The Dark Transfer talent does not works in the way as you consider it to be; it requires proper physical contact which is difficult to accomplish against a formidable opponent in the heat of combat and the opponent should have a (recent) history of crippling wounds which shall be re-opened with the said talent (This talent is not an insta-kill or something). Unless we are considering a seriously wounded Hero, Dark Transfer is unlikely to undermine him. And it is a big if, if Krayt can even manage to touch Hero long enough for his Dark Transfer talent to work.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I'm being pretty generous to the Hero by giving him the benefit of the doubt here and naming him the victor, while his only superior feat to Krayt is defeating Vitiate--Which is rather ambiguous, considering we don't really know what state Vitiate was in.
I'm not going to get into a 1000 year debate about HoT vs Anakin, but Anakin should be better than Revan here.
Caedus, by implication of having better experience and demonstrating crazy esoteric capabilities, culminated with the mere association of Skywalker blood and the implications therein, should also be better than Revan and about on RoTS Anakin's tier.
Anakin cut Dooku down faster than Yoda could (given, Yoda had anatomical limitations), that is no small feat.
I understand that I may seem biased toward the character, but if anything Revan has been the subject of bias ever since KoTor.
Let just make two points:
[list]-Plagueis states a vergence with a midi-chlorian count at Anakin's would be higher than any being ever born before him, Anakin excelled faster than all of his competition without trying...
-By ROTS, Anakin [note that by AoTC, it is implied that he is already better than RoTJ Luke and even TFU Galen Marek] is seasoned by 4 years of war and repeated duels with Tyranus, who himself is on the same tier as Revan and Mace Windu - and probably the deadliest of the 3 one on one[/list]
So, even at 23 years old - was more powerful in the Force, and more powerful in the combat related skills he'd developed, than even the redeemed Revan by miles.
Originally posted by Oneness
I'm not going to get into a 1000 year debate about HoT vs Anakin, but Anakin should be better than Revan here.Caedus, by implication of having better experience and demonstrating crazy esoteric capabilities, culminated with the mere association of Skywalker blood and the implications therein, should also be better than Revan and about on RoTS Anakin's tier.
Anakin cut Dooku down faster than Yoda could (given, Yoda had anatomical limitations), that is no small feat.
I understand that I may seem biased toward the character, but if anything Revan has been the subject of bias ever since KoTor.
Let just make two points:
[list]-Plagueis states a vergence with a midi-chlorian count at Anakin's would be higher than any being ever born before him, Anakin excelled faster than all of his competition without trying...
-By ROTS, Anakin [note that by AoTC, it is implied that he is already better than RoTJ Luke and even TFU Galen Marek] is seasoned by 4 years of war and repeated duels with Tyranus, who himself is on the same tier as Revan and Mace Windu - and probably the deadliest of the 3 one on one[/list]
So, even at 23 years old - was more powerful in the Force, and more powerful in the combat related skills he'd developed, than even the redeemed Revan by miles.
Anyways:
Anakin never surpassed Yoda in power. It is misleading to boast that Anakin is miles ahead of Revan; he realistically cannot be. Anakin have a few high showings but Revan have consistency on his side.
Dooku benefitted from Yoda's passivity. He would have stood no chance if Yoda was after his blood, but Yoda is a jedi and a reluctant warrior.
Also, Dooku was tasked by Sidious to lure Anakin to the dark side in the confrontation that took place on a cruiser. He played by the rules instead of attempting to save his life and paid the price.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Anakin never surpassed Yoda in power.
Never said that much. But he came very close, he was younger and "more powerful" than the experienced Tyranus.
It is misleading to boast that Anakin is miles ahead then Revan; he realistically cannot be. Anakin have some high showings but Revan have more consistency on his side.
As of AoTC, Anakin lasts far longer with Dooku one on one than Obi-wan despite his almost non-existent experience in real combat. Yet by RoTS, he claims his powers have doubled since the last time he met with Tyranus - not one year before this, in TCW he was holding his own against Tyranus far better than he did on Geonosis. The third or fourth time they fight, as he's rescuing Palpatine, Anakin nearly wins against Tyranus.
It already seen in the film that his fear and irrationality was getting in the way of his ability to make good tactical decision. Also, pertaining to his defeat, it would have been impossible to defend himself while air-born, and unlike Maul, Obi-wan saw him coming from a mile away. The novel even suggests Obi-wan had the time to spare Anakin with a "defensive" maneuver that only did enough to end the fight, as opposed to an offensive strike to kill.
The novelization corrects many of the errors in Anakin beating Tyranus then turning around and losing to Obi-wan. When Anakin and Obi-wan tag teamed Dooku and both lost in RoTS, the novel explains that they were "tripping over each other".
Dooku benefitted from Yoda's passivity. He would have stood no chance if Yoda was after his blood.
That is not really implied at all, he was obviously trying to end the war so no more Jedi would die, he would have more evil not to eliminate Tyranus.
But Yoda is a jedi and a reluctant warrior.
Reluctant, but when it's time to kill, it's time to kill.
Also, Dooku was tasked by Sidious to lure Anakin to the dark side. He played by the rules instead of attempting to save his life and paid the price.
Not according to his narrative point of view - in his own narrative, Anakin makes all of his powers look like a joke by comparison.