Malgus, Hero of Tython, Reborn Revan vs Caedus, Krayt, Anakin Skywalker

Originally posted by Oneness
I'm not going to get into a 1000 year debate about HoT vs Anakin, but Anakin should be better than Revan here.

Nah.

Originally posted by Oneness
Caedus, by implication of having better experience and demonstrating crazy esoteric capabilities, culminated with the mere association of Skywalker blood and the implications therein, should also be better than Revan and about on RoTS Anakin's tier.

Caedus does not have better experience at all. Revan fought in the Mandalorian and Jedi Civil Wars and gained good combat experience in both. Caedus has spent the majority of the wars he's taken part in out of the action. And just being a Skywalker doesn't put you above everyone else i.e. Jaina. Caedus is powerful, but he is not automatically superior to Revan in hat regard just through virtue of his bloodline.

Originally posted by Oneness
Anakin cut Dooku down faster than Yoda could (given, Yoda had anatomical limitations), that is no small feat.

And then lost of Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Originally posted by Oneness
I understand that I may seem biased toward the character, but if anything Revan has been the subject of bias ever since KoTor.

You're not overly, you just see things differently.

Originally posted by Oneness
Let just make two points:

[list]-Plagueis states a vergence with a midi-chlorian count at Anakin's would be higher than any being ever born before him, Anakin excelled faster than all of his competition without trying...

-By ROTS, Anakin [note that by AoTC, it is implied that he is already better than RoTJ Luke and even TFU Galen Marek] is seasoned by 4 years of war and repeated duels with Tyranus, who himself is on the same tier as Revan and Mace Windu - and probably the deadliest of the 3 one on one[/list]

So, even at 23 years old - was more powerful in the Force, and more powerful in the combat related skills he'd developed, than even the redeemed Revan by miles.

1) So? Anakin has a hell of a lot of power, but he has never demonstrated an exceptional ability to use it. Can you name some feats in the Force that you think show Anakin as being more powerful than Revan? Revan caught the lightning of Nyriss with his bare hands then threw it back at her. The same lightning that was powerful enough to utterly disintegrate her even after breaking through her Force Shield. Revan was powerful enough to put Lord freaking Vitiate on his ass. Could Anakin? Revan had such a deep connection to the Force that he was capable of unleashing both the Light and Dark sides together. He's ripped asteroids out of the sky and pelted people with them.

Anakin.... has done what to make you think he's that powerful?

- Lol @ AotC Anakin being superior Marek and Luke. Revan has far superior experience in warfare than Anakin does (since he fought in a war comprised of actual Jedi and Sith, thus he has more experience with force using opponents) AND he's a genius with massive stores of Force Knowledge and training under his belt. Knowledge which iirc he consumed extremely quickly, he only had a few years as Darth Revan yet his darkside knowledge was mindblowing to Bane. And if we go by KoTOR he learns faster than Anakin did as well.

^^^

Nicely put once again.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And then lost of Obi-Wan Kenobi.

We've already been through this, either discuss the points I've made, or quit using this.

but he has never demonstrated an exceptional ability to use it.

Vader could do crazy damage damage seen in TFU II with these abilities:

[list]-Force rage (RoTS)
-Force speed (during lightsaber combat in TCW series)
-Force push
-Force choke
-Force grip
-Force repulse
-TK augmented lightsaber blows
-Force wave (in the Obsession comic)
-Force repulse
-Forcefield
-Invection
-Tutaminis
-Force repel (against Starkiller II's Force lightning, which rivaled Nyriss'😉
[/list]

Yet he couldn't beat RoTJ Luke - who never demonstrated any of these abilities.

So? Anakin has a hell of a lot of power,

Still, none of Revan's TK feats consolidate him as being above Vader due to exploits in TFU II - note Starkiller II, like Nyriss, was able to incinerate opponents in game-play and his lightning was even more powerful in incinerating fighters during the game's en-combat sequences. Vader was described in the book and seen in game repelling that Force lightning.

As for Revan's saber feats, yes he defeated armies, but so did Windu in CW, and between Windu and Tyranus, Windu was stated to be the lesser swordsman in the duels 10 years earlier - yet at around the same time in AoTC Yoda explains that Tyranus is stronger than before "Powerful you have become, Dooku. The dark side I sense in you." Yoda says this during his Force battle with the Dark Lord. This is a big deal, because Yoda's TK powers surpass demonstrably surpass that of Vader's at any point (CW), but I'll get to that later. AoTC states that Tyranus and Windu were equals as of the Clone Wars, implying their relative but unique abilities. So even though Tyranus and Windu are equal, it is perhaps unfair to say he's capable of repeating Windu's feat - and contradicted by him surrendering to an army of mercs TCW, yet this can be explained by Tyranus' lightsaber form - which is not as good against blasters, but better in 1 on 1 duels, which is what he's having with Revan here.

Tyranus has proven that his TK is nearly on par with Vader's, easily dismissing the relatively powerful Jedi Master Quinlan Vos, who has been shown to best Nightsisters, characters Luke struggled between RoTJ and HtTH, in a flashback. Tyranus has been able to apply TK to possibly greater extents than Vader in momentarily getting a hold of Kenobi, though the novelization states that Kenobi and Anakin were almost tripping over each other and not really in sync, this might have had a play in that feat.

All in all, I'd say Tyranus has the tools to beat Revan and Vader.

More than Tyranus, which is why all of this

Can you name some feats in the Force that you think show Anakin as being more powerful than Revan? Revan caught the lightning of Nyriss with his bare hands then threw it back at her. The same lightning that was powerful enough to utterly disintegrate her even after breaking through her Force Shield. Revan was powerful enough to put Lord freaking Vitiate on his ass. Could Anakin? Revan had such a deep connection to the Force that he was capable of unleashing both the Light and Dark sides together. He's ripped asteroids out of the sky and pelted people with them.

Hasn't been enough to stop the likes of him.

Anakin's abilities are guilty by implication - just like most of HoT's; as you claim that because he beats them, he is >. That's logic you've as well.

Lol @ AotC Anakin being superior Marek and Luke.

It's already implied, to disown the implication one as to be able to support the contrary with evidence.

Revan has far superior experience in warfare than Anakin does

I never said otherwise.

And if we go by KoTOR he learns faster than Anakin did as well.

Not sure I agree with you. Anakin did care much about the more esoteric techniques, but the whole TCW demonstrates his determination in combat with just about any type of opponent - those abilities are primed.

Originally posted by Oneness
We've already been through this, either discuss the points I've made, or quit using this.

My point is that Anakin was all over the place in RotS. YUou keep bringing up him beating Dooku but you're ignoring that he does not operate at that level all the time. He isn't normally that good.

Originally posted by Oneness
Oh god, you're into all the ridiculous TOR techniques :facepalm:

I'm talking more about, yknow, standard telekinesis, force defenses, that kind of thing?

Vader could do crazy damage damage seen in TFU II with these abilities:

Originally posted by Oneness
[list]-Force rage (RoTS)
-Force speed (during lightsaber combat in TCW series)
-Force push
-Force choke
-Force grip
-Force repulse
-TK augmented lightsaber blows
-Force wave (in the Obsession comic)
-Force repulse
-Forcefield
-Invection
-Tutaminis
-Force repel (against Starkiller II's Force lightning, which rivaled Nyriss'😉
[/list]

Yet he couldn't beat RoTJ Luke - who never demonstrated any of these abilities.

He didn't use any of those techniques on Luke. Later Luke would reflect that Vader had ben holding back on unleashing his Force abilities on him. Recall that Luke only found out how to block a Force Choke after RotJ. Vader could have beaten him with his advanced Force powers if he'd wanted to.

Originally posted by Oneness
More than Tyranus, which is why all of this

Um, what?

Originally posted by Oneness
Hasn't been enough to stop the likes of him.

Anakin's abilities are guilty by implication - just like most of HoT's; as you claim that because he beats them, he is >. That's logic you've as well.

What does that even mean?

But it isn't, because we've actually seen Anakin use the Force and he is hardly exceptional with it. His abilities are well-documented. 😬

Originally posted by Oneness
It's already implied, to disown the implication one as to be able to support the contrary with evidence.

How is it implied?

Originally posted by Oneness
I never said otherwise.

YouTube video

Originally posted by Oneness
Not sure I agree with you. Anakin did care much about the more esoteric techniques, but the whole TCW demonstrates his determination in combat with just about any type of opponent - those abilities are primed.

Revan went untrained to well above Malak in, what, a few weeks? Dude leveled up pretty darn fast in Kotor.

Ok, except that its stated that:

"The more midichlorians inhabiting a being’s cells, the more the being was able to connect to the Force. However, a high concentration of midichlorians did not guarantee a being control of the Force. Only through intense study and dedicated training could one become more proficient in harnessing the power of the Force.” - The Complete Encyclopedia, page 285.

Revans Force Mastery is well above Anakins, this he is better at harnessing the power of the Force. Anakin never studied the Force that intensely, thus his command of it wasn't exceptional.

Well said, Neph.

Originally posted by Oneness

-By ROTS, Anakin [note that by AoTC, it is implied that he is already better than RoTJ Luke and even TFU Galen Marek] is seasoned by 4 years of war and repeated duels with Tyranus, who himself is on the same tier as Revan and Mace Windu - and probably the deadliest of the 3 one on one[/list]

I'm totally cool with Anakin being more powerful than Revan, but AotC Anakin? Where the hell are you getting that from?

Do you really think AotC Anakin could go toe to toe with Sidious just like Marek did?