Luke (ROTJ) Runs the KOTOR Gauntlet

Originally posted by chilled monkey
At that point Luke had at least one foot in the dark side and his mind and spirit were clouded by it so he wasn't at his best.

In the rematch, when he was at his best due to his mind and spirit being clear, he beat Palpatine.

Good to know.

In "Shadows of the Empire" he beat Guri, a human replica droid that possessed superhuman speed and strength, in a fist fight. She was strong enough to effortlessly break metal shackles and could have easily overpowered Chewbacca had she needed to.

I actually knew this at one point but it's been since like '05 when I read it. Kudos for pulling the example. I retract my statement.

I did. If we went purely by the movies, Luke is a far better fighter than almost anyone in the PT. No spinning around, no twirling his lightsabre like a baton, no passing it from hand to hand like a moron; just good, solid sabre fighting.

Let's be honest here. The duels in the OT were way better than those in the PT for the reasons I just described.

Actually, if I went solely by technique, Dooku would be top tier, followed by Maul. In both cases, the individuals are played by professional fighters and it shows, for the same reason why Jet Lit would make a more convincing Jedi than Clive Owen.

Obi/Ani would actually be right below them. While they did some pretty stupid stuff, compared to the others, they're gods.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Good to know.

I actually knew this at one point but it's been since like '05 when I read it. Kudos for pulling the example. I retract my statement.

You're welcome.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Actually, if I went solely by technique, Dooku would be top tier, followed by Maul. In both cases, the individuals are played by professional fighters and it shows, for the same reason why Jet Lit would make a more convincing Jedi than Clive Owen.

Indeed, that's why I said "almost anyone." Maul and Dooku were awesome for the reasons you mention.

It's a pity Ray Park's Iron Fist movie never emerged. It would have been amazing.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Obi/Ani would actually be right below them. While they did some pretty stupid stuff, compared to the others, they're gods.

I have to admit Kenobi and Anakin do have genuinely impressive moments.

From what is displayed in the movie and the quotes from Yoda and Vader it would seem that Luke would have had to reach a certain level to be able to contend with Vader.

I think the situations could be compare to the fights between Dooku and Anakin, and Obi-wan and Anakin. Anakin’s mindset and level of power enable him to dominate Dooku who was clearly more experience and learned in the ways of the force whereas Obi-wan won due to Anakin’s mental state.

Similarly, Vader was not giving his all during the fight which Luke confirms in the movie by stating he felt his conflict. However, we also know that Luke was not giving his all since he did not want to kill his father. When Luke did go all out it was enough to take Vader down for the second time.

Thus, the impression that I got from the movie is that Luke even though he was less experienced with the force, had enough power and skill to take down Vader under the right circumstances which is an impressive feat.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Except it's apparent everywhere but the ancient novelization which injects all kinds of "didn't happen" stuff that Vader as holding back, so his "victory" is largely unindicative of his skill level. And training by yourself is unquantified improvement as well, since the average Jedi Knight has 10,000 hours of lightsaber training. That's a little over a year straight of practice. Are you arguing that Luke surpassed this base level proficiency in two years alone? It makes zero sense.

Here's what I'd like to see:

1. Supporting commentary from the RotJ dvd. I don't have a copy at this time.

2. Some EU feat or proof of improvement during that two year gap which conclusively shows Luke as better than say, a proficiency Jedi Knight from the Great Sith Wars (Jolee) or Random Jedi from the PT era for that matter.

I agree that it makes zero sense, I'm just pointing out that his learning rate was extraordinaire. By no means do I think he was capable of defeating Vader out of pure skill by RotJ.
I also agree that training by yourself isn't really the way to go, but maybe because he's Luke Skywalker this helped him more than it would help other Jedi.

Originally posted by chilled monkey

I did. If we went purely by the movies, Luke is a far better fighter than almost anyone in the PT. No spinning around, no twirling his lightsabre like a baton, no passing it from hand to hand like a moron; just good, solid sabre fighting.

Let's be honest here. The duels in the OT were way better than those in the PT for the reasons I just described.

Originally posted by Based
No.

It depends on if one's talking visually better, or better in a real fight.

A lot of the flash in the PT really is useless in real combat.

The PT character with the best fighting style was Dooku, because the actor's fencing experience was taken into account (Maul, while played by a professional fighter, was playing by a professional fighter focusing on flash rather than being based on his normal style).

Ares

Aside from the ANH duel, I agree.

Even that is underrated- it was slow, but they kept their swords between each other the entire time and didn't make foolish moves.

Originally posted by Q99
It depends on if one's talking visually better, or better in a real fight.

A lot of the flash in the PT really is useless in real combat.

The PT character with the best fighting style was Dooku, because the actor's fencing experience was taken into account (Maul, while played by a professional fighter, was playing by a professional fighter focusing on flash rather than being based on his normal style).

Even that is underrated- it was slow, but they kept their swords between each other the entire time and didn't make foolish moves.

Well said. Thank you very much.