Originally posted by Enzeru
Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman, Cyborg and BatmanThat silly joker is saying that the Hyperions are 4 Heralds, who are facing 3 to 6 heralds (!) and a supreme being when it comes to the Justice League.
It has to be trolling. No one on this board can be that contaminated.
So you don't think that Superman, WW, Hal are heralds and that DCnU AM, Flash and maybe Cyborg can be considered to be in this tier too? Especially Flash and AM.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
So you don't think that Superman, WW, Hal are heralds and that DCnU AM, Flash and maybe Cyborg can be considered to be in this tier too? Especially Flash and AM.
I don't think you know what a herald is. Being able to lift a big boot doesn't turn you into a herald. There is more to it to being a herald. People need to realize that some opponents can't be beaten by punching them harder.
These are superhero comics and not Dragonball Z.
Yes, I don't think that Aquaman, who starts bleeding after being shot by guns is on herald level. High metahuman maybe, but herald? Hell no. Ares VS Aquaman would be one hell of a fight and Ares is not a herald.
Yes, I don't think that Cyborg, who has some neat tricks, but totally lacks in the strength and more so the durability department should be considered even near herald level. He would be taken out by heralds rather quickly, since they're able to absorb, what he can dish out and can overload his durability easily.
Wonder Woman is toned down as hell in the New 52 comics. She is clearly inferior to Superman and only managed to do decently against him is thanks to her fighting ability, but when it comes to facing real threats, her arms get broken left and right.
Green Lantern doesn't really have the damage output in my opinion and his shields are simply too weak. Pre New 52 Green Lanterns were capable of tanking planetary level explosions and some of them even more, but now in the New 52? Hell no.
Ask yourself this:
If I was to create a Thor VS Aquaman, or Green Lantern, or Wonder Woman, or Cyborg thread ... would you see them taking any fights against Thor at all?
Thor is a high herald. In a different thread I was being generous and gave most of the Justice League members low to mid herald tier levels. For everything above they haven't done enough.
The only regular standard character in new DC 52 right now I would consider as a high herald is H'El due to his unique abilities and the speed, but even H'El started jobbing recently. Being threatened by a device, which was destroying him on a molecular level would instantly make him lose to someone like the Silver Surfer or the Sentry. He has been bloodied up by Supergirl, so he can be hurt physically as well.
Originally posted by Enzeru
I don't think you know what a herald is. Being able to lift a big boot doesn't turn you into a herald. There is more to it to being a herald. People need to realize that some opponents can't be beaten by punching them harder.These are superhero comics and not Dragonball Z.
Yes, I don't think that Aquaman, who starts bleeding after being shot by guns is on herald level. High metahuman maybe, but herald? Hell no. Ares VS Aquaman would be one hell of a fight and Ares is not a herald.
Yes, I don't think that Cyborg, who has some neat tricks, but totally lacks in the strength and more so the durability department should be considered even near herald level. He would be taken out by heralds rather quickly, since they're able to absorb, what he can dish out and can overload his durability easily.
Wonder Woman is toned down as hell in the New 52 comics. She is clearly inferior to Superman and only managed to do decently against him is thanks to her fighting ability, but when it comes to facing real threats, her arms get broken left and right.
Green Lantern doesn't really have the damage output in my opinion and his shields are simply too weak. Pre New 52 Green Lanterns were capable of tanking planetary level explosions and some of them even more, but now in the New 52? Hell no.
[b]Ask yourself this:
If I was to create a Thor VS Aquaman, or Green Lantern, or Wonder Woman, or Cyborg thread ... would you see them taking any fights against Thor at all?
Thor is a high herald. In a different thread I was being generous and gave most of the Justice League members low to mid herald tier levels. For everything above they haven't done enough.
The only regular standard character in new DC 52 right now I would consider as a high herald is H'El due to his unique abilities and the speed, but even H'El started jobbing recently. Being threatened by a device, which was destroying him on a molecular level would instantly make him lose to someone like the Silver Surfer or the Sentry. He has been bloodied up by Supergirl, so he can be hurt physically as well. [/B]
No need to get personal.
Ok, so you would consider him a HM, that's ok. I would place him in the LH tier but anyway.
Cyborg is fine with me.
What about Flash?
So If H'el is a HH in your opinion, that would mean that you consider Superman a mid or low herald and Hal, WW High Metas?
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
What about Flash?
Any version of the Flash is high abstract level. His comics shouldn't be called "Flash", but "Feats".
The thing with the Flash is that he hasn't come up with infinite mass punches in the New 52 comics so far, which would instantly put him in the High Herald position at least. I also haven't seen him speed stealing anyone yet.
With these two abilities I would have him at trans-level and if he has them already, then he clearly is there, but if not, then ...
Still (!) High Herald for now, I would say. He might not have the damage output, but in some of the Captain Atom comics he had an entire conversation with Captain Atom and did multiple actions at the same time in 0.00001 seconds or some crazy crap like that.
No other herald can compete with that - well besides Captain Atom at that point one would assume.
Flash can still trap his opponents in the Speed Force as he has done it to Gorilla Grodd and he can calculate the outcome of everything, so he will find a way to beat any opponent.
Even if he gets the Infinite Mass Punch and the Speed Steal, he will never leave his trans-level position, since a Skyfather like Odin actually has feats, which would negate everything the Flash can do to him.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
So If H'el is a HH in your opinion, that would mean that you consider Superman a mid or low herald and Hal, WW High Metas?
In all honesty, I consider Wonder Woman high meta for now :-7 She hasn't done ANYTHING impressive so far, that would put her higher.
For example, she might be physically stronger than the low herald Terrax, but give me a reason to believe that she can keep up with his power cosmic or tank his planet busting attacks.
Only her bracers would give her a small break in such a fight, but they shouldn't turn such a fight hugely in her favour.
Green Lantern is a low herald in my opinion. His damage absorb is simply not there yet. His shields are laughable Any high herald would smoke him. What puts him above Wonder Woman (even though she beat his ass) is his versatility and the potential power of the ring... which he didn't showcase yet, but maybe it will come.
Yeah, Superman is a mid herald to high herald, when angry in my opinion. While sundipped I would either consider him the highest of high herald possible, due to his statement he could bring down mountains with a finger or maybe even low trans, but to call him low trans ... he lacks the feats for now while being in a sundipped state.
I don't see New 52 Superman beating Thor in a random encounter due to him not having the feats to compete with someone of Thor's caliber (of feats), but while sundipped I can clearly see him hurting Thor and taking Thor's shots - it would still be a fight though.
"OH MY FREAKIN' GOD, ENZERU HAS JUST CALLED SUPERMAN A MID HERALD, EVEN THOUGH IN-SUPERDUDEBRO-WE-TRUST HAS BENCHPRESSED THE WEIGHT OF THE EARTH FOR 5 DAYS WITHOUT EXPOSURE TO SUNLIGHT!"
Well, even if we take that ridiculous thread into count ... what has that feat brought him yet? Does Superman really strike you as someone, who has +++++++ planetary level strength? If he did, then I would expect him to overpower his opponents physicaly as fast as he can simply to avoid any kind of collateral damage, but he NEVER does so.
Does that now mean that every single opponent he faced so far had the same kind of strength, or was that one feat just bad writing and should be forgotten?
I said it once and I'm going to say it again ... benchpressing the Earth is not a norm for Superman. It's a ridiculously high showing, which totally falls out of place, especially since it's more of the same.
It's on the same level of stupid as Spider-Man beating down Firelord... Since Spider-Man has done it, do we view Spider-Man now as a herald beater at best? If not, why not? He has done more of the same, just like Superman has done more of the same? Where is the justice in that?
Sorry for the wall of text.
Originally posted by Enzeru
Any version of the Flash is high abstract level. His comics shouldn't be called "Flash", but "Feats".The thing with the Flash is that he hasn't come up with infinite mass punches in the New 52 comics so far, which would instantly put him in the High Herald position at least. I also haven't seen him speed stealing anyone yet.
With these two abilities I would have him at trans-level and if he has them already, then he clearly is there, but if not, then ...
Still (!) High Herald for now, I would say. He might not have the damage output, but in some of the Captain Atom comics he had an entire conversation with Captain Atom and did multiple actions at the same time in 0.00001 seconds or some crazy crap like that.
No other herald can compete with that - well besides Captain Atom at that point one would assume.Flash can still trap his opponents in the Speed Force as he has done it to Gorilla Grodd and he can calculate the outcome of everything, so he will find a way to beat any opponent.
Even if he gets the Infinite Mass Punch and the Speed Steal, he will never leave his trans-level position, since a Skyfather like Odin actually has feats, which would negate everything the Flash can do to him.
In all honesty, I consider Wonder Woman high meta for now :-7 She hasn't done ANYTHING impressive so far, that would put her higher.
For example, she might be physically stronger than the low herald Terrax, but give me a reason to believe that she can keep up with his power cosmic or tank his planet busting attacks.
Only her bracers would give her a small break in such a fight, but they shouldn't turn such a fight hugely in her favour.Green Lantern is a low herald in my opinion. His damage absorb is simply not there yet. His shields are laughable Any high herald would smoke him. What puts him above Wonder Woman (even though she beat his ass) is his versatility and the potential power of the ring... which he didn't showcase yet, but maybe it will come.
Yeah, Superman is a mid herald to high herald, when angry in my opinion. While sundipped I would either consider him the highest of high herald possible, due to his statement he could bring down mountains with a finger or maybe even low trans, but to call him low trans ... he lacks the feats for now while being in a sundipped state.
I don't see New 52 Superman beating Thor in a random encounter due to him not having the feats to compete with someone of Thor's caliber (of feats), but while sundipped I can clearly see him hurting Thor and taking Thor's shots - it would still be a fight though.
"OH MY FREAKIN' GOD, ENZERU HAS JUST CALLED SUPERMAN A MID HERALD, EVEN THOUGH IN-SUPERDUDEBRO-WE-TRUST HAS BENCHPRESSED THE WEIGHT OF THE EARTH FOR 5 DAYS WITHOUT EXPOSURE TO SUNLIGHT!"
Well, even if we take that ridiculous thread into count ... what has that feat brought him yet? Does Superman really strike you as someone, who has +++++++ planetary level strength? If he did, then I would expect him to overpower his opponents physicaly as fast as he can simply to avoid any kind of collateral damage, but he NEVER does so.
Does that now mean that every single opponent he faced so far had the same kind of strength, or was that one feat just bad writing and should be forgotten?I said it once and I'm going to say it again ... benchpressing the Earth is not a norm for Superman. It's a ridiculously high showing, which totally falls out of place, especially since it's more of the same.
It's on the same level of stupid as Spider-Man beating down Firelord... Since Spider-Man has done it, do we view Spider-Man now as a herald beater at best? If not, why not? He has done more of the same, just like Superman has done more of the same? Where is the justice in that?[b]Sorry for the wall of text.
[/B]
Interesting reasoning. Honestly.
So where would you rank the 4 Hyperions?
And nevermind the text. It's good to read.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
What about Flash?
I think Flash should be very dangerous but in practice, he's been pretty f*cking useless in the Justice League tbh. 😬
It's pretty sad but I honestly cannot recall him doing anything but running around in circles or tagging some canon fodder. I stopped reading Flash since the freezing arc (I'll catch up later) but he showed enough tricks to be useful, especially with his speed and ridiculous perceptions but honestly, he might as well be Falcon at the moment.
Cyborg, Aquaman, Batman, and Flash would only serve as distractions unfortunately. I think it's sad but I'd take Batman and his strategic capabilities over all four of them in a fight. Maybe Aquaman can do some damage with his trident if he can get a good opening but that's about it. Perhaps Batman can direct Flash and Cyborg to combine their powers to do some science bullshit to take down a Hyperion or something.
Even Wonder Woman is physically inferior to the weakest Hyperion as she is now. Imo, only Hal Jordan and Superman have any shot of taking on someone as powerful as current Hyperion. Those two can be very powerful, although Hal's history against flying bricks as far as I've seen doesn't inspire the greatest confidence.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Interesting reasoning. Honestly.So where would you rank the 4 Hyperions?
And nevermind the text. It's good to read.
The power level of the Hyperions is all over the place, but I see them all being at least low herald.
The fourth one with the blue and white suit and a red "H" is the weakest of the Hyperions in my opinion, since he was more to the ground most of the time.
I think that he is a low herald and his best feats are surviving nuclear explosions, while being in the middle of them and destroying a very decent area of the Earth, when flying into the orbit and colliding with the Earth.
The third Hyperion with the red and yellow suit should be a mid herald (high herald if we're generous). His strength level is supposed to be around 90 tons, but it could easily be argued that he is stronger, since he was physically stalemating Gladiator for quite a while and at the same time he also got nano-second reactions during that fight. What keeps that Hyperion down is the fact that he kinda easily lost to Gladiator, who was simply more skilled and choked Hyperion out and that Hyperion also lost to Thor, who absorbed his Heat Vision with Mjolnir and trapped him in a magical crystal ball or some weird Silver Age crap like that.
But I think it was this Hyperion version, who also beat the living crap out of the Juggernaut, so he is quite powerful.
The current Hyperion with the blue and yellow outfit is a solid high herald IMO. He was able to compete with Hulk and did quite well against Starbrand. Carrion stated that he holds the most power, when he took over Hyperions body, while Thor and Hulk were also present.
Hyperion also looked better than Thor in the fight against the huge robot ... (Terminus or something? I don't remember) and then there is also of course his universal durability level feat, but that should also not be viewed as a norm for him, otherwise he would have abstract level durability, which he has not, since he has been bloodied up by the Hulk and by the MM weapons of Thanos' goons. I still view him as the strongest Hyperion version and possibly the capable of beating Thor thanks to his speed advantage.
The last Hyperion, which would be King Hyperion should be in theory the strongest and at least (!) high herald. According to him he defeated multiple versions of Hulk, Sentries and Galactus', but at that point that should be viewed as PIS ... He was still beating powerful opponents opponents down left and right and was only beat by Blue Marvel, but then again, for now Blue Marvel also strikes me as a solid high herald.
Losing to Blue Marvel brought King Hyperion down - it's basically the same story like for Superboy-Prime, who was beating everyone up and then in one comic for some reason he lost to the Teen Titans, who had a less powerful roster than the opponents Superboy-Prime had in the past.
Out of all these Hyperions I view Superman as being the closest to the weakest Hyperion, who was surviving nukes and destroying parts of the Earth simply by colliding with the planet. I would give Superman a win over that version of Hyperion in a decent fight, but I simply don't see him beating the stronger versions of Hyperion, who fought opponents / or are at the level of characters, who simply had more time to establish themselves and come up with much greater feats than Superman.
Originally posted by Galan007
Not Balck Adam, that's for sure. 👆Ah, he must have refined the argument since I last checked. What we really need to know is what type of cheese is being used as the control. That fact alone could make or break the entire argument.
I agree with you Galan. Thats why I think Hyperion walk around strength is at double universe pushing levels (sarcasm).
😄
I see where Enz is going with this...need more consistent showings TBH. I just think if we can accept 'one' ft as an average for one character, we need to do the same for all.
Hyperion universe pushing strength.
Hulk punching through time so hard that he caused a time flux which turned everything back to what is was.
Thor hitting Gor so hard that it was cracking nearby planets.
I honestly cant see anyone suggesting these fts as a norm for any character. So again, if a one time showing' is a bench mark for one character, why not do it for all of the characters shown above?
Originally posted by carver9
I agree with you Galan. Thats why I think Hyperion walk around strength is at double universe pushing levels (sarcasm).😄
I see where Enz is going with this...need more consistent showings TBH. I just think if we can accept 'one' ft as an average for one character, we need to do the same for all.
Hyperion universe pushing strength.
Hulk punching through time so hard that he caused a time flux which turned everything back to what is was.
Thor hitting Gor so hard that it was cracking nearby planets.
I honestly cant see anyone suggesting these fts as a norm for any character. So again, if a one time showing' is a bench mark for one character, why not do it for all of the characters shown above?
Did you broke your fingers while writing this, Mr always going WB mode hulk?
Also, guys you are @ssholes with enzu