Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
.......Doesn't the story explicitly make it clear that this ISN'T the case and that he experiences past/present/future simultaneously, and therefore can do nothing? IIRC he was still a puppet, he could just see the strings.
Correct.
Two things, and we have had a mod rule that Before Watchmen is canon:
Originally posted by Badabing
Do you know what take it to a PM means? Do you understand what "I see no reason to dispute Before Watchmen" means?This is the last time I'm addressing your little hissy fit. You'll have a day off to think about eveything.
But, with that said, in Before Watchemen:
1. Dr. M is unable to change the outcome of something. That is to say, if you threw a punch at his face, and he sees it coming in the future, were he to decide to move his head out of the way, the first reality where he got punched in the face still exists:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/qwirtle/BeforeWatchmenDrManhattan003-Zone-005_zpsfe3dae29.jpg
2. EVEN if he DID create this alternate reality 2, where he doesn't get punched in the face, he decides never to do it:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/qwirtle/BeforeWatchmenDrManhattan003-Zone-016_zpse64ab65a.jpg
In summary:
BW is canon, DM is unwilling to change the future, and even if he wanted to, his powers don't work like that.
Dr Manhattan is from an epic novel and his character was mostly inspired by Nietzsche's Übermensch ,purpose of his character was not to fight bad guys ( i mean the point of the Watchmen not his purpose in book itself) his purpose was to show if someone get as powerful as a human can get , is he still bound to human natures or not ? in the book Dr Manhattan was like a wall between a man and a god , sometimes he showed he still have emotions but sometimes he simply didn't care for anything and that was plausible because Doctor Jonathan Osterman was simply dead and what was left from him was his conscious which could find his way in the universe ( like a ghost that still exist because he/she has an unfinished business ) but he was bound to the nature itself , you can say he was a piece of nature with Jon's conscious but you can't compare him to other Superhumans or Supervillains because the universe of watchmen is different than Marvel universe , i myself like Comic Book 'Versus' fights but Dr Manhattan is an exception that can't be used in these fights , although i like him very much but its better not to use him against other guys out of his universe 🙄
No one is even discussing whether or not DM will see into the future and see what's coming to prevent it. Mr. Master randomly just mentioned it.
Although seeing into the future changes it DM has near planck reflexes.
And can prevent any attack from Thanos naturally.
Thanos has no way of killing DM. DM has ways of killing Thanos though.
Originally posted by h1a8
No one is even discussing whether or not DM will see into the future and see what's coming to prevent it. Mr. Master randomly just mentioned it.Although seeing into the future changes it DM has near planck reflexes.
And can prevent any attack from Thanos naturally.Thanos has no way of killing DM. DM has ways of killing Thanos though.
Originally posted by Mr Master
As I understand it, Dr M can't change the future, even if he knows what's going to happen.So, ie. Even if he sees Thanos stomping him, he can't stop the outcome.
Am I missing something?
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
This is correct.He's trapped by his own omniscience. It's spelled out clear as day for us in both Watchmen and Before Watchmen.
Originally posted by iceman24567
👆
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
.......Doesn't the story explicitly make it clear that this ISN'T the case and that he experiences past/present/future simultaneously, and therefore can do nothing? IIRC he was still a puppet, he could just see the strings.
So that's Mr. Master, JakeTheBank, Iceman and Rage all involved.
When did Dr M show near Planck reflexes?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So that's Mr. Master, JakeTheBank, Iceman and Rage all involved.When did Dr M show near Planck reflexes?
You chose not to read my whole post. I said Mr Master randomly mentioned it. Almost to bait someone. He had absolutely no reason to bring it up as no one was talking about it. Jake and rage played their part afterwards.
He seen events so fast they hardly can be said to have occurred at all. This implies quantum events happening at Planck time.
Originally posted by ToughMindThanos has no way of putting him down. DM can just reform over and over. DM can just become intangible. DM can just duplicate himself many times. DM can just grow to giant sizes. DM can just teleport back and forth.
I'm going with Thanos, especially if he uses his tech.
Originally posted by h1a8
You chose not to read my whole post. I said Mr Master randomly mentioned it. Almost to bait someone. He had absolutely no reason to bring it up as no one was talking about it. Jake and rage played their part afterwards.
'No one IS (my emphasis) discussing whether or not....'
I was replying to Rage, who asked a valid question. Not sure why you had to stymie some sharing of comic book knowledge. Obviously not everyone knows of the existence of Before Watchmen (like yourself), so I was merely helping to educate. Still awaiting your concession, and apology for being so pigheaded.....not to mention your thanks for helping you understand a comic character and his powers.
Thanos has no way of putting him down.
You're missing your own slickness, slick:
Originally posted by h1a8
Notice how I never ruled out mind rape. I definitely thought of it as you see the careful chosen words of my previous post. You missed my slickness. So if Thanos tries it then he could win. Without it Thanos could lose or stalemate.
Thanos cannot defeat Dr. Manhattan with telepathy.
Not only is DM's consciousness too vast and advanced for mere telepathy to affect, but also his mind is distributed across spacetime along his worldline. Not to mention that his mind also operates at fundamental quantum limits (Planck time scale, massive quantum-computer-like parallel processing etc). Therefore, his consciousness isn't even there for Thanos to access and even if it was, the scale of it, the speed of it, and the sheer volume of parallel processes taking place in it would more likely cause a system shock for Thanos than affect DM himself.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85I'm not dumb at all. Mr. Master randomly start discussing an issue that wasn't being discussed at all as a means to bait. Rage and Jake are probably innocent in their reply to him. I'm not sure though. You are maybe not so much as you know what the hell is going on.'No one IS (my emphasis) discussing whether or not....'
I was replying to Rage, who asked a valid question. Not sure why you had to stymie some sharing of comic book knowledge. Obviously not everyone knows of the existence of Before Watchmen (like yourself), so I was merely helping to educate. Still awaiting your concession, and apology for being so pigheaded.....not to mention your thanks for helping you understand a comic character and his powers.
You're missing your own slickness, slick:
Anyway I'm not sure Thanos can win with mindrape as I don't know how it would lead to death or ko. I addressed this in a post after the one you quoted.
If it could then Thanos can win. But DM still has a chance by trying to atomize Thanos or simply teleport parts of his body off before that happens.
Originally posted by Silent Master
When has DM ever atomized someone on Thanos' durability level?
So you suggesting that durability prevents atomization in all cases, including through direct control of the subatomic particles? Honestly, I never seen a character attempt to atomize another character (by controlling their atoms) and fail. So durability may or may not resist being atomized in ALL WAYS. You could be right though (or wrong).
Lastly, if we don't know if DM can atomize Thanos, teleport parts of his body off, or create black holes near, on, or in him then this battle is inconclusive. It now depends on the opinion of the fans. We can't say DM is not able to do it since he has never tried and it is plausible based off the suspension of disbelief and we can't say he can either. My gut says he can beat Thanos rather easily while Thanos can do nothing to him. IMO, DM is abstract level of a small area of influence.
P.S. Surfer loses to Thanos mainly because of PIS mixed with a little CIS.
Surfer only tries to blasts Thanos. He doesn't get creative like he has done so many times.
A PIS off Surfer is at least trans level.
Originally posted by h1a8Thanos shuts his mind down, has has hit intangible beings on panel and Thanos has killed unkillable beings and has matter manipulated skrulls who have complete molecular control
How would it be spite when Thanos has no way of putting DM down for good? What is Thanos going to do to combat DM's ability to become intangible, or reform?
Originally posted by Insane Titan
Thanos shuts his mind down, has has hit intangible beings on panel and Thanos has killed unkillable beings and has matter manipulated skrulls who have complete molecular control
Shutting his mind down doesn't win since DM can anew the moment Thanos releases control. This is assuming that Thanos can shut his mind down of course, since mind controlling someone doesn't automatically give you that ability.
Unkillable =/= killable but not able to stay dead
Thanos can make things stay dead in the imperative arc. But he can't kill the unkillable as that would be a contradiction. Also Thanos can't kill Galactus, Odin, LT, etc.
So how again can he kill the unkillable?
