Originally posted by deathslash
You do realize that Bruce has a firm enough understanding of magic, has learned several magic spells from Zatanna, and has briefly shut down Circe's magic right?
Not to mention he's learned a thing or two dealing with Jason Blood.
With that said, I've gotta side with Doom here.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Without PIS, Batman would require the League or other assistance from the hero community to beat Doom. That or he'd have to somehow get Doom's sense of honor and personal code to prevent him from killing him (as petty murder is beneath Doom). And yes, T'Challa is both smarter than Bruce and has exponentially more resources at his disposal.
Good Analysis. Agree as well.
Jake would you mind if I send you a pm(it's all Doom related stuff)
Originally posted by 80sBaby
Doom is smarter, has better gear/tech, stronger and knows magic.That said, Batman would beat him. Doom has an obvious, and easily exploitable flaw. Bruce is a master of criminal psychology and would be able to take advantage of Victor's ego/overconfidence.
How would he beat him? Everyone who's anyone in Marvel knows Doom has a massive ego, yet they can't just easily exploit it to their advantage and wind up beating him.
In a direct confrontation, Doom is overwhelmingly more powerful than he. In a prep scenario, Doom's accomplishments dwarf Batman's. So, I'm not seeing how Batman "finds a way" to beat Doom.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
How would he beat him? Everyone who's anyone in Marvel knows Doom has a massive ego, yet they can't just easily exploit it to their advantage and wind up beating him.In a direct confrontation, Doom is overwhelmingly more powerful than he. In a prep scenario, Doom's accomplishments dwarf Batman's. So, I'm not seeing how Batman "finds a way" to beat Doom.
1. Who in Marvel is as well versed in psychology/psychological warfare as Bruce?
2. Why would it simply be a direct confrontation? That's not what the OP is asking.
3. Doom does have an impressive resume, true. But, in this scenario, Bruce has more instances of beating an opponent with such a glaring personality flaw.
Doom should win, on paper but, Bruce can (and likely would) beat him. Doom would underestimate him and lose.
Originally posted by 80sBaby
1. Who in Marvel is as well versed in psychology/psychological warfare as Bruce?2. Why would it simply be a direct confrontation? That's not what the OP is asking.
3. Doom does have an impressive resume, true. But, in this scenario, Bruce has more instances of beating an opponent with such a glaring personality flaw.
Doom should win, on paper but, Bruce can (and likely would) beat him. Doom would underestimate him and lose.
Batman, obviously is his inferior in every regard, but still, Doom would not be open to ego-exploitation by such a relatively pedestrian mind.
It takes Reed or Banner to get the better of Doom's normal levels of hubris (Banner did so on two occasions and Reed on ... Well, he's Reed).
Originally posted by 80sBaby
1. Who in Marvel is as well versed in psychology/psychological warfare as Bruce?2. Why would it simply be a direct confrontation? That's not what the OP is asking.
3. Doom does have an impressive resume, true. But, in this scenario, Bruce has more instances of beating an opponent with such a glaring personality flaw.
Doom should win, on paper but, Bruce can (and likely would) beat him. Doom would underestimate him and lose.
1.) Doom himself, for one. The guy is a master manipulator. He's pulled off an incredible amount of ridiculous schemes against people more powerful than he and in more impressive fashion than Batman. Loki is also a master manipulator and has been doing it for way longer than Doom has and Doom was shown able to keep up with Loki's machinations with some of his own. Emma Frost also is a telepath on top to being one manipulative witch, and she can't exploit Doom's ego to translate into a win.
2.) Even in a prep scenario, Batman's prep feats are dwarfed by Doom's. If Batman called in the League for assistance (or the F4), it's not really Batman beating Doom, is it?
3.) Such as who and how? I understand Batman does have instances of outmaneuvering foes more powerful than he, but even in his own comics, he doesn't display the kind of prowess needed to best Doom outright, either in a typical fight or in some kind of drawn out war. Batman doesn't have a single enemy that brings everything to the table that Doom does; guy would likely become his single greatest rogue ever.
I doubt Doom would underestimate him, to be honest. He would find Bruce inferior to him, but he'd be well aware of Batman's reputation as the world's greatest detective and a stalwart member of the Justice League. Best case scenario for Batman is that Doom doesn't bother killing him as he finds it beneath him, enabling Batman to survive an encounter with him. I guess in the end, it depends on what you count as a victory for Batman.
Originally posted by Golgo13
He would, but he'd take him in a prep battle. Constantine's magic has been friggen uber recently and this is just DCnU Constantine.
Doom has acquired levels of power that dwarf everything in the Marvel Universe ('cept Surfer being God, I think).
Originally posted by Golgo13
He would, but he'd take him in a prep battle. Constantine's magic has been friggen uber recently and this is just DCnU Constantine.
You really think DCnU Constantine can match everything Doom's done and in the absurd lack of time he's been able to do those things?
Doom's prep feats are among the best in comics. Coupled with the fact that he's overtly as powerful as he's ever been within the past few years and I don't see that happening.
Moot point, as Batman getting Constantine to fight his battles defeats the purpose of the thread.
Originally posted by janus77
I don't know enough about Constantine to judge him well but, I know enough about Doom to not readily agree to his being trumped by somebody merely because they are uber powerful.Doom has acquired levels of power that dwarf everything in the Marvel Universe ('cept Surfer being God, I think).
Recently, Constantine (With prep) captured the Trinity of Sin and in the last issue almost defeated a being of ALL the evil in the universe. That was just recently.
Vertigo Constantine was able to outsmart God himself among other extremely powerful beings with prep.
Constantine also has the means to acquire powerful objects and magic.