Defenders vs HP Doomsday

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
I haven't read any of the original Doomsday shit since I was like 15, but was Hunter/Prey Doomsday the one who just continually evolved as he fought? He didn't need to die or anything? IIRC the only way he was beaten was being put in a continuous teleportation loop or something because he couldn't even be BFR'd.

If that's who we're talking about here then Doomsday destroys, the only shot the Defenders have is Genis-Vell.

H/P was a brute. He snapped Superman's arm like a dry twig as I recall.
Defenders would have their work cut out for them.
That said, creative team synergy would allow for a LOT of attack options.

Dr. Strange could (for example) cast a spell to make Hulk feel all the rage and pain of every soul in Hell. That would give the team WB on tap.

Tactical use of power such as this should allow them to trump even HP/DD, IMO.

But it would be far from a cakewalk. DD will straight up kill one of them if they get sloppy.

Do you remember if Doomsday continually evolved in combat during that story? I think he did..

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
Do you remember if Doomsday continually evolved in combat during that story? I think he did..

You are correct sir.

Superman tried to compensate with advanced weapons, but it just wasn't enough.

DD was a monster in that run.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
I wasn't talking about the WWH fight with Wolverine, that happened 7 years ago and they have fought since then. Tbh H1 there's no point in replying to my post as you don't even read comics and have probably never read a Hulk book in your life.

The rest of your post is based on some pre-conceived notion that Hulk has never been as durable as Superman, not from reading the material yourself. Prior to Peter David jumping on the book in the late 80's/early 90's Hulk didn't need a healing factor and his body was indestructible. Now it seems the books have come full circle.

Well you believe HP Doomsday would beat any Marvel character short of Galactus so it's no surprise you think he would solo this team.

Look at the facts.
1. Heralds can't scratch DD, not even DO
2. DD heals instantly, so no progress would get made
3. DD adapts on the fly, if you don't beat him quickly then you would never beat him.
4. DD is much faster than the team. He blitz the entire JL simultaneously before they can react.

If you think DO loses then your are ignoring his durability, healing factor, speed, bony sharp protrusions, ability to become more resistant on the fly, or a combination of any of those.

Originally posted by h1a8
only an idiot an troll would think that hulks durability was equal to superman. Just look at their history of feats?
You can't take Hulks best vs. Supermans average to prove your point.

Look at the facts.
1. Heralds can't scratch DD, not even DO
2. DD heals instantly, so no progress would get made
3. DD adapts on the fly, if you don't beat him quickly then you would never beat him.
4. DD is much faster than the team. He blitz the entire JL simultaneously before they can react.

If you think DO loses then your are ignoring his durability, healing factor, speed, bony sharp protrusions, ability to become more resistant on the fly, or a combination of any of those.

I agree that Superman is more durable than Hulk. Even in current Waid form, Supes trumps in durability Feats.

By contrast Hulk's healing factor is vastly superior to Superman's. And it increases along with his strength level. So the end result is often comparable.

I disagree that someone must ignore DD's Feats in order to win this match.
They need only prove that this team can mimic the effect of said Feats. Doomsday is not undefeatable, even in this incarnation.

This team brings a lot of synergy to the table. Surfer and Genis combined can mimic most Molecule Man Feats (save the crazy Beyonder class stuff).
Dr. Strange could untap Hulk's potential and turn on World Breaker from the gate.
He could then use any number of deus ex magical combinations to attack DD. He could mimic the effects of going Zom on him if he deemed it necessary.

Namor is very good at whistling. 😕

And with molecular manipulation on hand, the containment power of this team is pretty off the charts.

I can see them taking HP DD down. Not easily, and certainly not without risk... but they can do it.

Jax, please don't waste your time with H1.

Originally posted by jaxthejester
I agree that Superman is more durable than Hulk. Even in current Waid form, Supes trumps in durability Feats.

By contrast Hulk's healing factor is vastly superior to Superman's. And it increases along with his strength level. So the end result is often comparable.

I disagree that someone must ignore DD's Feats in order to win this match.
They need only prove that this team can mimic the effect of said Feats. Doomsday is not undefeatable, even in this incarnation.

This team brings a lot of synergy to the table. Surfer and Genis combined can mimic most Molecule Man Feats (save the crazy Beyonder class stuff).
Dr. Strange could untap Hulk's potential and turn on World Breaker from the gate.
He could then use any number of deus ex magical combinations to attack DD. He could mimic the effects of going Zom on him if he deemed it necessary.

Namor is very good at whistling. 😕

And with molecular manipulation on hand, the containment power of this team is pretty off the charts.

I can see them taking HP DD down. Not easily, and certainly not without risk... but they can do it.

2. DD tanked an attack that no one on the team can match in power.

3. DD can potentially one shot many members on the team if he gets his claw through their brain. He penetrated Superman like he was jello and broke his arm against his power like a twig.

I don't see how Hulk can get past the evolution. What if Doomsday starts canceling out Gamma rays a la The Radiant? Then the only true physical threat is gone.

^ Such a situation would hardly be analogous to Hulk, yes? If this were Living Laser, then I could see the Radiant situation occur. But Hulk isn't an energy being. He's a brick powered by gamma radiation. Like Superman is a brick powered by solar radiation. Doomsday never canceled out Superman's solar energy in his cells.

Originally posted by carver9
So you have a scan of Hulk punching someone and hurting his hands during the process? Simple question.

Also, do you have a scan of someone standing in one spot tanking Hulk punches. Hulk is by far one of the hardest punchers in comics. No one is going to stand in one spot enduring his rampage. Especially Hulks like Indestructible Hulk, WWH, War Hulk, and WBH.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What does this have to do with the point you were making?

You posted the Doomsday scan in what I'm assuming was a hint at Hulk hurting his hands punching Doomsday as well? The wall scan does not back up this stance as it seems likely the pain was referring to an emotional one that Hulk felt.

Not to mention the idea in of itself is imo legit ridiculous. I find it unlikely that even Gray Hulk would hurt his hands punching DOS Doomsday. Banner has a long history of laying a beat down on someone with an Adamantium skeleton. It's honestly more of a low showing for Superman then anything else as Maxima and others struck Doomsday in that event as I recall.

I guess you could argue that Superman had been fighting for longer and had been worn down but that isn't applicable to Hulk either as he'd only get stronger and tougher the longer the fight lasts, not the other way around.

Before I continue answering to this silly idea of Rage and Carver that Hulk's hands do not feel pain or that is impossible for hulk to feel pain while punching.

I just want to double check if this is where you both stand on the issue.

I say Hulk will hurt his hands because Superman hurt his hands punching Doomsday, since I believe Superman is stronger and more durable than Hulk, I say that Hulk is more likely to hurt his hands fighting Doomsday.

You guys apparently are saying that Hulk will not hurt his hands while fighting Doomsday because apparently Carver says that Hulk somehow has never feel pain in his hands and thus it is impossible for hulk o feel pain, Rage is somewhere on the same stance.

So just to double check, Is this the stand you both are taking?

Because so far Carver has been backtracking as usual

Hulk is stronger and more resilient than Superman. Hulk keeps getting stronger, more resilient and faster.

Hulk's HF makes him "functionally immortal" according to Maestro. So why would he "hurt his hands" punching Doomsday?

Hulk has busted planetoids, time, Celestial level weaponry, pure energy and even adamantium.

I doubt Doomsday's spikes are tougher than Peak Form Onslaught's body, but Hulk cracked that open without causing himself any pain.

There surely is a level at which Hulk would feel pain, but we haven't seen it yet and the evidence we have seems to indicate it is far above Doomsday.

@Rao

Provide scans of Hulk punching someone hurting his hands. As pointed out, Hulk has punched and dented adamantium with no damage or cry out in pain. The question is, do you believe Doomsday is as durable as adamantium. Also, it's your opinion if you think Superman is stronger than Hulk....imo, Hulk is stronger and I would even argue that current Hulk is more durable.

I have never witnessed a character standing there withstanding ongoing punches from Hulk. It just doesn't happen. Even skyfathers like Zeus was sent flying by a punch from Hulk. Even Onslaught was turned to dust by a punch from Hulk.

Originally posted by carver9
Point to a time Hulk has hurt his hands punching anything...especially in a fight. Just like Superman blitzing a character and him not registering Superman blows. Things like that doesn't happen with the Hulk...EVER.

This is YOUR original stand, just to make sure, you don't backtrack. And be aware that Superman can break prometium like paper also as far as I remember I have not seen Superman hurting his hands, ever until He faced Doomsday

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Before I continue answering to this silly idea of Rage and Carver that Hulk's hands do not feel pain or that is impossible for hulk to feel pain while punching.

I just want to double check if this is where you both stand on the issue.

I say Hulk will hurt his hands because Superman hurt his hands punching Doomsday, since I believe Superman is stronger and more durable than Hulk, I say that Hulk is more likely to hurt his hands fighting Doomsday.

You guys apparently are saying that Hulk will not hurt his hands while fighting Doomsday because apparently Carver says that Hulk somehow has never feel pain in his hands and thus it is impossible for hulk o feel pain, Rage is somewhere on the same stance.

So just to double check, Is this the stand you both are taking?

Because so far Carver has been backtracking as usual

So if your plan is to disprove a strawman you've made up and projected onto them (and ignoring what they're actually saying) by showing a scene of something like Thor swinging Mjolnir into Hulk's swinging fist and hurting him, then it's a pointless plan.

Originally posted by ODG
That's not what either of them are saying.

So if your plan is to disprove a strawman you've made up and projected onto them (and ignoring what they're actually saying) by showing a scene of something like Thor swinging Mjolnir into Hulk's swinging fist and hurting him, then it's a pointless plan.

That is what they are saying, that Hulk cannot hurt his hands, which is a silly idea, Hulk doe feel pain weather is on his hands or any other part of his body.

Here is Carvers post

Originally posted by carver9
That's Superman hurting his hands. Nothing like that has EVER happened with the Hulk and he has fought some of the most powerful beings on the planet. Superman and Hulk isn't interchangeable. Point to a time Hulk has hurt his hands punching anything...especially in a fight. Just like Superman blitzing a character and him not registering Superman blows. Things like that doesn't happen with the Hulk...EVER.

^ Rage.Of.Olympus already picked up on and dismissed the strawman you tried to establish:

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What does this have to do with the point you were making?

Originally posted by carver9
Lol at Hulk hurting his hands punching Doomsday. Also, Hulk can solo this.

Originally posted by carver9
Sigh, you said Hulk would hurt his hands punching Doomsday. When has something like this happened to the Hulk. That's all I'm asking.

Originally posted by carver9
Did you post a scan of him experiencing physical pain while punching someone? In your scan, he didnt hurt his fist.

Originally posted by carver9
So you have a scan of Hulk punching someone and hurting his hands during the process? Simple question.

Originally posted by carver9
Provide scans of Hulk punching someone hurting his hands.

^Because BOTH of them are saying that this has never happened to the Hulk, which is a LIE

Originally posted by carver9
Point to a time Hulk has hurt his hands punching anything...especially in a fight. Things like that doesn't happen with the Hulk...EVER.

And You are aware that this is a lie too.

Originally posted by ODG
That's not what either of them are saying.

So if your plan is to disprove a strawman you've made up and projected onto them (and ignoring what they're actually saying) by showing a scene of something like Thor swinging Mjolnir into Hulk's swinging fist and hurting him, then it's a pointless plan.

Originally posted by ODG
That's not what either of them are saying.

This is what Rage says

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I find it unlikely that even Gray Hulk would hurt his hands punching DOS Doomsday.

And this is what carver says

Originally posted by carver9
That's Superman hurting his hands. Nothing like that has EVER happened with the Hulk and he has fought some of the most powerful beings on the planet. Point to a time Hulk has hurt his hands punching anything...especially in a fight. Things like that doesn't happen with the Hulk...EVER.

So that is what BOTH are saying, while Rage position is less extreme than Carver's both are pointing out at the same thing

Originally posted by ODG
So if your plan is to disprove a strawman you've made up and projected onto them (and ignoring what they're actually saying) by showing a scene of something like Thor swinging Mjolnir into Hulk's swinging fist and hurting him, then it's a pointless plan.

Strawman? They are saying that Hulk somehow cannot hurt his hands in a fight? and is exactly what happened.

Doomsday is more durable than Thing perhaps.

No?