Beyonder tries to take over DC Universe!!!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Let's cut short some stuff:

Jynocidus believes that, as necessity flows from the LT, if any character (fictional or otherwise) NEEDS to do something, they do so because the LT allows it.

Captain American needs to save the day? LT.
Batman's parents are killed? LT.
Marty McFly has to go back in time? LT.
Bill Clinton needs to fool around with Lewinsky? LT.
I need to write this post? LT.

Ergo, it doesn't matter what you say, its all necessitated - and hence, allowed - by the LT.

all praise is due to the most high, of course.

Originally posted by Jynocidus
Beyonder may not be omnipotent, but there was no abstract being that could touch him apparently. LT couldn't do anything, and we already have GEB on panel --needing--, plus the Presence admitting to external forces beyond his control.

PRB is definitely external from him, i'd say.

Yeah, going by this logic, Puma while empowered by the power of the multiverse could have killed the Beyonder, Doom stole Beyonder's powers with one of Galactus' technological devices, Beyonder didn't have complete control over time/history, so yeah, nitpicking that one single instance from the Lucifer series to downplay the Presence isn't going to work well for you.

Besides, Yahweh from Lucifer (who said that there are forces external to him) is confirmed to be God (Vertigo Encyclopedia):

http://i.imgur.com/j3ZSe8d.jpg?1

Note: God in Lucifer is mostly dissociated from the one in mainstream DC. I mean, we see him depart creation at the end of the series, but in mainstream, he was still functional. Not to mention that Elaine becoming the new "God" was completely ignored.

Tell me........who could be greater than God? Only the writers could. We even see him hold the whole creation in one hand in Lucifer #68:

http://i.imgur.com/MPRqO8x.jpg?1

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Why would WORLD'S FUNNIEST not count?

As to the Worlogog, I don't think the description of "Infinite power" can be dismissed as hyperbple. Given that fact, the wielder should be able to handle The Beyonder.

Not saying it wouldn't count, it's just that the user didn't mention that he/she is using WF version.

Technically speaking, every "universal" being has "infinite power", which is why there are levels of infinity. Beyonder is at the top of that level.

Don't these my abstract is better than your abstract fights usually boil down to a stalemate besides a little bias on each side?

Are we trying to see if Beyonder can take DC as it is..or with all the characters at their most powerful in it? Cause if that's the case Beyonder wouldn't even be able to take over Marvel xD.

Like if he showed up in all his glory, but when he arrived Protege was already there being a douche with three faces and Thanos had the HOTU and the IG, I don't think he would have been able to do much lol...He may take Protege (since he got punked by Scathan and Beyonder was taking the celestials down in fisticuffs) but I don't really see him getting past Thanos so easily if at all but that's a whole other topic in itself.

Operator, is what he's holding the entirety of Marvel too? Sometimes people like to argue in favor of one ft encompassing both companies or whatever. So you are really saying that Presence = TOAA?

To my understanding, PRB was supposedly beyond both Heaven and Hell. Good and Evil weren't anything to him, he was beyond such things. Mixing them both up would basically say PRB > Heaven, Hell , GEB, Presence, Celestials, Dark Celestials, Angels, Infernals.....

That's where I'm coming from.

And for the record, I know we're talking about comic stuff but this "God himself" talk is nothing but trash.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
I would put the time and effort in if I thought you was actually worth it

Nice one.

Originally posted by Jynocidus
And for the record, I know we're talking about comic stuff but this "God himself" talk is nothing but trash.

Depart from me heathen savage!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Depart from me heathen savage!

😆

posts filled with the mark of the beast, idolatry sickens me

Beyonder was definitely Omnipotent!

Only limited by whatever cap he put on himself.

From allowing alcohol to affect him,
to tanking a blast that melts BillionS of UniverseS, making him cough once,
to getting high on heroin,
to creating from nothingness a reality so immense,
that next to the trans-infinite Multiverse its like putting an ocean next to a drop of water. swank

Originally posted by operator616

Yeah, going by this logic, Puma while empowered by the power of the multiverse could have killed the Beyonder, Doom stole Beyonder's powers with one of Galactus' technological devices

That aside though,
since this isn't Beyonder contributing/consenting/aiding his own murder via Puma,
and I don't believe the DC side has big G's tech which can only be used
when Beyonder puts his guard down and is actually trying to help his opponent,
like in the future-Doom case from SWI ...

... I don't see how it can be used against him here.

Originally posted by operator616

Technically speaking, every "universal" being has "infinite power", which is why there are levels of infinity. Beyonder is at the top of that level.

Originally posted by Jynocidus
Operator, is what he's holding the entirety of Marvel too? Sometimes people like to argue in favor of one ft encompassing both companies or whatever.

No, "all of creation" refers to Yahweh's multiverse.

Originally posted by Jynocidus
So you are really saying that Presence = TOAA?

No. But that doesn't mean DC doesn't have a concept equivalent to TOAA.

Here's 2 examples where the writer is shown on Panel:

Grant Morrison in Animal Man #26:

http://i.imgur.com/tr8jCRQ.jpg

Mike Carlin, in Superman: Man of Steel #75:

http://i.imgur.com/Qnf8Kil.jpg

There are even more examples i could bring up.

Originally posted by Jynocidus

To my understanding, PRB was supposedly beyond both Heaven and Hell. Good and Evil weren't anything to him, he was beyond such things. Mixing them both up would basically say PRB > Heaven, Hell , GEB, Presence, Celestials, Dark Celestials, Angels, Infernals.....

Yeah well, The same thing applies to the Presence

JLA Paradise Lost #3:

http://i.imgur.com/Tn9GSWQ.jpg?1

"The Presence is nowhere and everywhere.......he's heaven and earth, perhaps even hell itself"

The Spectre v4 #10:

http://i.imgur.com/Bgqmb8q.jpg?1

"the divine Presence that contains and surpasses everyone and everything in creation"

Originally posted by Jynocidus

Presence = TOAA?

Originally posted by Jynocidus

To my understanding, PRB was supposedly beyond both Heaven and Hell. Good and Evil weren't anything to him, he was beyond such things.

All of that, was part of the drop of water, next to Beyonder the ocean.

"God?" ... Beyonder was his own supreme being/eternal/no beginning, no end,
self-sufficient, or as Shooter put it: "like God before Genesis"
the creator/embodiment of everything beyond, beyond, beyond.

Like I said prior, only Primal Monitor fits the bill, imo.

Originally posted by Mr Master

that next to the trans-infinite Multiverse its like putting an ocean next to a drop of water.

The multiverse wasn't trans-infinite back then.

And the Presence has held all of creation in one hand. Not to mention that he "breathed" the universeS into being (Supergirl: Wings):

http://i.imgur.com/kUSBC33.jpg?1

Originally posted by Mr Master

But in all seriousness,
Puma was a flee to Beyonder just like the LT and All there is.
The future-Doom comedy came after future-Doom got stomped like another flee.
A comedy with one aim in mind, to make Beyonder feel "desire" while de-powered,
in order to have a reason to visit the multiverse/616 the next year in SWII,
in order to understand this "desire" he felt while de-powered.

That aside though,
since this isn't Beyonder contributing/consenting/aiding his own murder via Puma,
and I don't believe the DC side has big G's tech which can only be used
when Beyonder puts his guard down and is actually trying to help his opponent,
like in the future-Doom case from SWI ...

... I don't see how it can be used against him here.

We've discussed this before. I can't change your mind, so agree to disagree.

Unless Yahweh steps in..Beyond wrecks DC

LT holds megaversal energies and couldn't stop PRB, I don't see how Presence holding a multiverse is supposed to make him flinch.

Originally posted by operator616

The multiverse wasn't trans-infinite back then.

Originally posted by operator616

And the Presence has held all of creation in one hand. Not to mention that he "breathed" the universeS into being (Supergirl: Wings)

Many drops to go before making a river let alone an ocean.

Originally posted by operator616

We've discussed this before. I can't change your mind, so agree to disagree.

Let me know, cause I was unaware of that. Otherwise, it's completely irrelevant.

Beyonder

Originally posted by operator616
The multiverse wasn't trans-infinite back then.

And the Presence has held all of creation in one hand. Not to mention that he "breathed" the universeS into being (Supergirl: Wings):

http://i.imgur.com/kUSBC33.jpg?1

We've discussed this before. I can't change your mind, so agree to disagree.

Who do you think the other beings who are above the Presence are?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Who do you think the other beings who are above the Presence are?

Why does Presence need to play a role? I thought god was the creator of all things? He seems to acknowledge some other creator in that Supergirl: Wings scan.

Don't know why people dislike these Supreme entity debates, i think they are interesting as hell, lol. I do have a question for Mr. Master and Op616 - the term "Creation", in the scan with the Presence, posted earlier, do u guys think it refers to just Vertigo, Vertigo+DC, or does it includes everything in term of all ideas, concepts and history within THAT comic storied development? In other words, does it encompass EVERYTHING - Overmonitor and his realm included?

Originally posted by Jynocidus
Why does Presence need to play a role? I thought god was the creator of all things? He seems to acknowledge some other creator in that Supergirl: Wings scan.

i don't think that was the Presence. I think he was referring to the Presence.