Gogeta vs Vegetto

Originally posted by Galan007
Given that these statements were only made while a Potara fusion was in play(ie. Vegetto), logic dictates that the Potara fusion alone was responsible for the rival boost-- I mean, what else would Old Kai have possibly be referring to? srsly

Nice opinion. Do you have any proof to confirm it?

IMO...it depends on the power level Goku and Vegeta was at during the time of each transformation. During the dance, Goku powers significantly increased to the point that he was able to match Pikon, someone that one shot koed Frieza, Cell, and the gang. With that said, Veggito happened AFTER the Buu saga which means both Goku and Vegeta was at a power level above the time time Gogeta was formed...FAR above that level of power (remember, Super Saiyan Goku overpowered Kid Buu energy during the end of their battle...during the time his energy was wished back by thhe dragon).

Like I've stated before, this fight is debatable and if we are looking for advantages, then Veggito has them since his incarnation was created by a more powerful Goku and Vegeta but again, thats speculation at it's best. With that said, this ends in a stalemate.

Originally posted by carver9
IMO...it depends on the power level Goku and Vegeta was at during the time of each transformation. During the dance, Goku powers significantly increased to the point that he was able to match Pikon, someone that one shot koed Frieza, Cell, and the gang. With that said, Veggito happened AFTER the Buu saga which means both Goku and Vegeta was at a power level above the time time Gogeta was formed...FAR above that level of power (remember, Super Saiyan Goku overpowered Kid Buu energy during the end of their battle...during the time his energy was wished back by thhe dragon).

Like I've stated before, this fight is debatable and if we are looking for advantages, then Veggito has them since his incarnation was created by a more powerful Goku and Vegeta but again, thats speculation at it's best. With that said, this ends in a stalemate.

Point being: if they were roughly the same age, then they were roughly the same PL as well... And if they were roughly the same PL, then Potara>dance, because the former was stated to give a rival boost while the latter was not.

Originally posted by Galan007
Nah, the Buu saga and Fusion Reborn film were set around the same time period-- everyone in the film appeared to be exactly the same age as they were in the Buu saga(and I also think it's pretty obvious that Janemba was meant to be an explicit analogue of Buu.) I can provide still-shots if need be.

Point being: if they were roughly the same age, then they were roughly the same PL as well... And if they were roughly the same PL, then Potara>dance, because the former was stated to give a rival boost while the latter was not.

Sure was. With that said, I agree with this. 👆

Originally posted by carver9
IMO...it depends on the power level Goku and Vegeta was at during the time of each transformation. During the dance, Goku powers significantly increased to the point that he was able to match Pikon, someone that one shot koed Frieza, Cell, and the gang. With that said, Veggito happened AFTER the Buu saga which means both Goku and Vegeta was at a power level above the time time Gogeta was formed...FAR above that level of power (remember, Super Saiyan Goku overpowered Kid Buu energy during the end of their battle...during the time his energy was wished back by thhe dragon).

Like I've stated before, this fight is debatable and if we are looking for advantages, then Veggito has them since his incarnation was created by a more powerful Goku and Vegeta but again, thats speculation at it's best. With that said, this ends in a stalemate.

Gogeta happened after buy saga, Vegetto was during Buu sagas is what I think you meant but great post🙂

*edit i think its durning buy saga as both Goku and begets are dead

@ Supra: The kai's didn't have to know about the Saiyan's full potential, because they were obviously very familiar to Namekian culture and abilities, as they knew about the Dragon Balls and the Metamoran fusion dance, and knew the dance was inferior to their method of fusing.

Also, the only place Fusion reborn could take place is after Vegeta died and went to HFIL and Goku was also dead. It still doesn't make sense though because Gotenks was able to go SSJ1 and Gohan was mystic form, so it really doesn't fit in the cannon timeline.

@ Bentley: He calle me a smartass and a dipshit, so I was simply defending myself. Hmph.

@ Impediment: lol, and what will you do if I don't heed this warning? Temporarily ban me? He calls me a smartass and a dipshit, and flames multiple threads, while I call him a retard twice in defense, and we get the same punishment? I call BS. This isn't a public middle school for god sakes. I thought you admins were the troll-wranglers of this sight, not the internet tough-guys. I didn't mean to flame, but whatever.

Originally posted by Supra
Gogeta happened after buy saga, Vegetto was during Buu sagas is what I think you meant but great post🙂

No. Gogeta is in a separate universe...

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
@ Supra: The kai's didn't have to know about the Saiyan's full potential, because they were obviously very familiar to Namekian culture and abilities, as they knew about the Dragon Balls and the Metamoran fusion dance, and knew the dance was inferior to their method of fusing.

Also, the only place Fusion reborn could take place is after Vegeta died and went to HFIL and Goku was also dead. It still doesn't make sense though because Gotenks was able to go SSJ1 and Gohan was mystic form, so it really doesn't fit in the cannon timeline.

@ Bentley: He calle me a smartass and a dipshit, so I was simply defending myself. Hmph.

@ Impediment: lol, and what will you do if I don't heed this warning? Temporarily ban me? He calls me a smartass and a dipshit, and flames multiple threads, while I call him a retard twice in defense, and we get the same punishment? I call BS. This isn't a public middle school for god sakes. I thought you admins were the troll-wranglers of this sight, not the internet tough-guys. I didn't mean to flame, but whatever.

Kai's are comic relief they know nothing besides King Kai. It was even stated that Bills made them piss in their pants.

They also thought the Z sword was unbreakable and that it granted its wielder extreme power when all it did was break out and spit out another worthless kai..

Gogeta as you stated before is stronger.

Goku needs to power down to do the dance. Goku does not need to power down to do Potara. It's really that simple.

Originally posted by Supra
They also thought the Z sword was unbreakable and that it granted its wielder extreme power when all it did was break out and spit out another worthless kai..

Also, Shin was the only Kai who believed the Z Sword unbreakable, simply because he didn't know any better. Conversely, Old Kai(the one who made the comments pertaining to Potara fusion), was pretty much all-knowing. We were given absolutely no reason to doubt his words.

Think.

Originally posted by Galan007
The guy who was key in creating Mystic Gohan, key in creating Vegetto, and key in creating SSJ4 Goku(albeit GT), was "worthless"..? ElOhEl.

Also, Shin was the only Kai who believed the Z Sword unbreakable, simply because he didn't know any better. Conversely, Old Kai(the one who made the comments pertaining to Potara fusion), was pretty much all-knowing. We were given absolutely no reason to doubt his words.

Think.

Exactly they didn't know better, they barely have knowledge of their own weapons just like said the fusion was permeant with the portal rings which it clearly was not as they separated, showing that Buu's power over rides the portal ring "permeant" fusion. Buu was more powerful then Vegetto hands down and proved it by absorbing them and causing the permeant fusion to actually not be so permanent.

Kai's don't know anything. They say "most powerful", "unbreakable", "superior" but they are proven wrong showing they clearly just make statements which they have no clue on.

Goku is far beyond them and their logic.

Think.

Originally posted by Supra
Exactly they didn't know better, they barely have knowledge of their own weapons just like said the fusion was permeant with the portal rings which it clearly was not as they separated, showing that Buu's power over rides the portal ring fusion.

Kai's don't know anything. They say "most powerful", "unbreakable", "superior" but they are proven wrong showing they clearly just make statements which they have no clue on.

Goku is far beyond them and their logic.

If you reply to this post with anything but FACT-BASED statements, you will be reported for trolling-- because frankly, that is ALL you are doing at this point. Your baseless opinions and outright lies do not supersede established canon fact. Simple.

Originally posted by Galan007
One Kai(Shin) does NOT represent all Kais(Old Kai). We were given a few reasons to doubt some of Shin's boasts. We were given absolutely no reason to doubt anything Old Kai said-- especially regarding a topic of which he is overtly familiar(ie. Potara fusion.) Remember, Old Kai himself was a Potara fusion, and had been for eons-- if anyone knows Potara, it's him. So unless you have canon evidence that contradicts what he said about a rival boost(this is a rhetorical question, btw, as I am 100% certain that no such evidence exists), then I'll go ahead and continue taking his word for it.

If you reply to this post with anything but FACT-BASED evidence, you will be reported for trolling-- because frankly, that is ALL you are doing at this point. Your opinion does not supersede established canon fact. Simple.

As its well know you hate me based off what you just said hit the report button now and get it over with. You are the one trolling here because your base your arguments off speculation of old men who know nothing and serve no purpose in DBZ other then comic relief. I base mine off screen feat facts.

How is Portal Superior when it lost to Buu and was not permanent. Buu's power override the "permanent fusion" in seconds. Old Kai himself said it was permanent and it was not permanent.

Screen feats prove Gogeta has never lost a fight, screen feats prove the fusion was not more powerful, screen feats prove the fusion is not permanent. Screen feats prove that Gogeta won and Vegetto lost. Try flipping that off.

What happened when Gogeta was formed, they didn't need to warm up and test out there powers like Vegetto did, Vegetto jacked around for 20 minutes while Gogeta defeated Janemba in less then 30 seconds. Vegetto gave Buu everything he had and it still didn't work.

Screen Feats Prove Gogeta wins.

Think

Vegetto let Boo do this so he can free his captured friends, do you even you know wtf Dragon Ball is?

Originally posted by Supra
As its well know you hate me based off what you just said hit the report button now and get it over with. You are the one trolling here because your base your arguments off speculation of old men who know nothing and serve no purpose in DBZ other then comic relief. I base mine off screen feat facts.

How is Portal Superior when it lost to Buu and was not permanent. Buu's power override the "permanent fusion" in seconds. Old Kai himself said it was permanent and it was not permanent.

Screen feats prove Gogeta has never lost a fight, screen feats prove the fusion was not more powerful, screen feats prove the fusion is not permanent. Screen feats prove that Gogeta won and Vegetto lost. Try flipping that off.

What happened when Gogeta was formed, they didn't need to warm up and test out there powers like Vegetto did, Vegetto jacked around for 20 minutes while Gogeta defeated Janemba in less then 30 seconds. Vegetto gave Buu everything he had and it still didn't work.

Screen Feats Prove Gogeta wins.

Think

It has been thoroughly explained to you via canon evidence precisely why your 'logic' is wrong. In spite of this, you incessantly ignore established canon fact simply because it conflicts with your own twisted views of the DBZ-verse. You also have a childish tendency to cherry-pick, or distort, or even outright lie about various instances, in a desperate(and remarkably blatant) attempt to help you save face. That, my friend, literally defines trolling.

Furthermore, it seems like you made this thread with a winner already in mind, and simply flame anyone who doesn't agree with your opinions. Again, that defines trolling.

Originally posted by Galan007
I reported you because you are, and have been, trolling.

It has been thoroughly explained to you via canon evidence precisely why your 'logic' is wrong. In spite of this, you incessantly ignore established canon fact simply because it conflicts with your own twisted views of the DBZ-verse. You also have a childish tendency to cherry-pick, or distort, or even outright lie about various instances, in a desperate(and remarkably blatant) attempt to help you save face. That, my friend, literally defines trolling.

Furthermore, it seems like you made this thread with a winner already in mind, and simply flame anyone who doesn't agree with your opinions. Again, that defines trolling.

Prove I made it with a clear stated winner, the more we debated it the more I realized Gogeta was Superior. Infact I was hoping SSGogeta was going to side with Gogeta and I was going to side with Vegetto but the facts are the facts and I will state them again.

If someone had proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Vegetto was stronger I would have sided with the facts, there are no facts to prove Vegetto is stronger.

You can side with canon vs non canon all day but it means little to me, its all Dragon Ball Z and Janemba was made by Akira. It' cannon.

Vegetto Facts
1. If he was the most powerful warrior ever created and the fusion was permanent, how did Buu override it. (Logic failed)
2. If he was so powerful why did he have to test his powers out and let Buu wreck him for like 20 minutes before he got serous.
3. If he was so powerful why did he not win?

Gogeta Facts
1. Fusion is superior because it does not have to be permanent and both characters can live on separately.
2. Gogeta has never lost a fight.
3. Gogeta did not have to test his powers out at all, he got down to business and defeated Janemba within a minute. Janemba could not even sense his movements.
4. Gogeta beat Janemba without breaking a sweat. And he summoned a spirit bomb in seconds. Something Vegetto was never shown to be able to do which is the most powerful attack in the universe.

You cannot argue those facts and if you try to you are the one trolling me. And since you troll me in every thread I create, I would watch who you report. Every thread I create you are against me and up in arms, so what does that make you?

Originally posted by Based
Vegetto let Boo do this so he can free his captured friends, do you even you know wtf Dragon Ball is?

Exactly and if the fusion was so powerful and so permeant how was it overridden by Buu's energy?

Originally posted by Based
Vegetto let Boo do this so he can free his captured friends, do you even you know wtf Dragon Ball is?

Based on?

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
@ Supra: *SIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGHHHH* I already explained this. Gogeta is slightly superior in overall strength, but Vegetto is superior as he would be able to hold out against Gogeta until he unfused. It's a simple concept that the old Kai explained. Vegetto is superior, as in he would ultimately win in a fight with the series limitations. However, Gogeta would win in a fight where his fusion was somehow permanent. That's all there is to it.

Lol even SS Gogeta says Gogeta is more powerful..

For this fight based on OP I said fusions where permanent and he stated after the fact that Gogeta is more powerful.

Gogeta wins again.

Originally posted by Supra
Lol even SS Gogeta says Gogeta is more powerful..

For this fight based on OP I said fusions where permanent and he stated after the fact that Gogeta is more powerful.

Gogeta wins again.

The only time Gogeta ever stated that was in a video game. Going by the OP, yeah Gogeta wins, but in a fair fight, he loses. Why can you go giving Gogeta random powers and abilities he doesn't have, but not Vegetto? Why not let Vegetto go SSJ2 since Gogeta is permanent? That's not fair at all, and you just need to make shit up like that to save your favorite character from a loss. That's like someone making a thread with Naruto against Goku where Naruto can use all jutsu ever invented and Goku is five years old and doesn't know any martial arts or ki and can't really do anything.

I win again.