Originally posted by LordofBrooklynOperator already posted scans both demonstrating other showings and the context of those showings. Quit being emotional since you're wrong and can't even debate properly. Debating based off of titles and what not isn't debating at all.
I'll give you a thumbs up when you show me Odin defeating someone with the Power of Dr.Fate/Inza.I can literally time when you will re-enter a thread. 😂
Odin wins based off his showings of power and abilities.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Operator already posted scans both demonstrating other showings and the context of those showings. Quit being emotional since you're wrong and can't even debate properly. Debating based off of titles and what not isn't debating at all.Odin wins based off his showings of power and abilities.
You were crushed.
You came back after others picked up the debate.
The character in question has a single appearance which was posted here.
I gave you not ONE but TWO examples of a Lord of Order, Fate, and a Lord of Chaos, Mordru. As clearly illustrated by the almighty scan, Dr. Fate Inza can draw upon BOTH the power of the Lords of Order/Chaos.
This was explained to you TWICE in this thread by other posters and yet you STILL return with the same irrational claims.
As I stated before, if Dr. Fate Inza could simply gain the power of a single Lord of Chaos, i.e. Mordru, it would be enough to beat Odin.
You've embarassed yourself yet again.
Wait and see if Operator will return and then post again.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Not so fast.Dr. Fate has taken on The Spectre under circumstances where he was not augmented and held his own.
You mean to tell me that a character that can battle The Spectre to this extent can't give Odin a battle?
Would I need to post scans demonstrating The Spectre's power here to validate the claim?
Ive read practically every appearance of the spectre pre and post crisis, so you're not educating me on anything.
But im curious, what Spectre feats do you have in mind?
And im well aware of Fate's encounter with the Spectre in All-Star Squadron #27, and i already said that he was portrayed a bit weak during that instance, here's a retelling from issue #28, where Kulak's servants restrain him:
http://i.imgur.com/MzVuyDx.jpg?1
That's the one that Fate battled.
Compare that to something like, say, Spectre summoning the energy of a hundred non-universes at half power, in Spectre v1 #4:
http://i.imgur.com/GoiVJiV.jpg?1
It's also a high showing for Fate. Also earlier in the series, in issue 4, Spectre confirmed > Fate (not that it needs to be confirmed, but in your case, it should):
http://i.imgur.com/FhONwNB.jpg?1
On avergae, Fate is not on Odin's level, that's "basic knowledge" going by your terminology.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Mordru is the most powerful Lord of Chaos. Let us say he is equally as powerful as Normal fate.The combination of Dr. Fate and Mordru isn't enough to beat Odin?
Enlighten me as to why this is faulty.
Ah, so you're just picking now the most powerful lords, how nice.
Although it depends on the version of Mordru you're talking about. Because there are different versions, you know.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
What is truly bizarre here is that the scans of Dr.Fate/Inza are on the FIRST PAGE and still you have a requirement for "Evidence".
......I have a requirement for evidence? When did i require evidence? I read the Flash story, and presented a scan regarding Fate's final feat, which is kinda questionable. So stop putting words in my mouth.
I was merely saying that when you make a claim, you should back it up with evidence, instead of making irrelevant sarcastic comments.
Originally posted by operator616
This might be a better approach.
Page 2 of this thread sums up things nicely.
1)Dr.Fate/INZA- I claim that Dr.Fate in this incarnation can access the power of Both the Lords of Order and Lords of Chaos. That would mean that ANY of the Lords are viable for him to take power from.
This claim is supported by other posters on page 2.
2)Picking the Most Powerful- This is addressed in point one but I'll do so again. I chose Mordru as an example that would be easily recognizable and has enough appearances to draw an appropriate gauge of his power. I've stated as much.
3) Scans- Beatboks, I hesitate to even mention his name as the attachment might be drawn as a negative. Neverthless, he was gracious enough to post scans that show that Dr. Fate Inza can draw upon the power of humanity as well. A fact that I haven't even factored in because I feel it is unnecessary.
In closing, I made claims and those claims were affirmed by both scans and statements. Anything beyond that now has nothing to do with the actual debate at hand but obfuscation based on personal attacks.
^ Are you trying NOT to understand my post or something? Because all you said, has literally nothing to do with what i said, and i never even disputed them. Or perhaps you don't understand that "the Flash" story which i keep referencing is the same one which involves this version of Fate (the one with Ynar and Vandeamon)....?
So, not going to continue this pointless debate, have a nice day.
Originally posted by operator616
^ Are you trying NOT to understand my post or something? Because all you said, has literally nothing to do with what i said, and i never even disputed them.?So, not going to continue this pointless debate, have a nice day.
Ah, so you're just picking now the most powerful lords, how nice.
Although it depends on the version of Mordru you're talking about. Because there are different versions, you know.
Which led to..
2)Picking the Most Powerful- This is addressed in point one but I'll do so again. I chose Mordru as an example that would be easily recognizable and has enough appearances to draw an appropriate gauge of his power. I've stated as much.
I was merely saying that when you make a claim, you should back it up with evidence, instead of making irrelevant sarcastic comments.
Response,
3) Scans- Beatboks, I hesitate to even mention his name as the attachment might be drawn as a negative. Neverthless, he was gracious enough to post scans that show that Dr. Fate Inza can draw upon the power of humanity as well. A fact that I haven't even factored in because I feel it is unnecessary.
^ Except that the "scans" which were asked had nothing to do with the ones that Beatboks posted. Because Quan asked for scans of Fate being one with the deity he invoked.......which has nothing to do with what Beatboks posted. Nice try.
The "not trying to understand my post" was in-reference to your 1st and 3rd points (not 2nd), hence why it was later followed by "the flash story", so let's not try and deviate from the point.
You also tried to explain to me how this version of Fate can tap into the powers of Lords of Chaos/Order which i never even disputed, and acknowledged it, yet, you acted like i didn't, and restated it. So yeah......you're trying very hard NOT to understand my post.
But if all you want is to get the last word in.....then so be it.
Originally posted by operator616
^ Except that the "scans" which were asked had nothing to do with the ones that Beatboks posted. Because Quan asked for scans of Fate being one with the deity he invoked.......which has nothing to do with what Beatboks posted. Nice try.
So you're arguing on Quan's behalf and your own and I'm supposed to have known that.
I like the "Nice try" comment in light of this.
Originally posted by quanchi112
You are cherry picking just like people do with Stranges feats while keeping your distance from the average and completely ignoring the lower ones.Odin is portrayed much higher on average than Fate combo here. Just accept it.
The Scans I loaded were specifically for the proof you asked scans for. I've ignored nothing because as I've stated al Classic Fate's low showings still don't show him being susceptible to physical hard. He just isn't, he can and has been immobilized, BFR'd and the like but not physically harmed. Hell even without his mystical talismans like the Helm Kent has been show to be able to tank just about anything. His only physical weakness without mystical artifacts is the need to breath. A weakness he looses once he dons the Helm of Nabu and becomes a Lord of order.
He is of course limited by the same rules of magic that affect all the DCU which limit he amount of magical energy that a mortal form can wield without destroying it. This is the reason the talismans are needed in the first place. It's also the reason why he invokes the power of other gods in SA stories and why Nabu has always altered his host to be more resilient and durable. drawing power through talismans, familiars or higher beings is the only way a mortal can within the DCU's ninth age of magic - this is a weakness that say beings like Spectre, Shade, Eclipso and Zor do not have as their existence is freed from such restraints. Mentioned in one of the scans I loaded of the Fate Spectre fight also and highlighted iirc by sun dipped. This very limitation doesn't apply as much here due to OP set up. As this is merged Kent and Inza they draw powder through all mankind ( meaning millions of "familiars" to handle any overload of power) and their form is a merger of two mortal forms and a lord of Order essence ( so can take much more power strain and call on more magic).
As for accepting it, do you have a problem keeping up? I've stated since the start of this thread and said it about 5 times now Odin would beat standard Dr Fate but Fate would give him a fight( something operator I believe succeeded to). The reasons are simply
1. His durability that has not had a lower showing to counter
2. In his classic appearances Fate is more often portrayed as an energy manipulator who senses the energy within the danger he faces and draws on it to fight that danger with its own power. Pretty much the same way modern Mordru is portrayed like when he fought Shazam on the ROE or took the star heart. Even classic Mordru drained all the magic of sorcerers world and the universe.
I've actually not said anywhere that Fate wins, so please open your eyes and read. I've questioned the use of a version of a character with so little evidence to support them and who is highly speculative. Maybe you should make sure you have an accurate representation of the position another poster takes before trying to put words in their mouth.
Originally posted by operator616
Yes, that's where it happened.Yup. Loki was technically in control for over a 2 dozen issues. Because it was revealed that Loki was the one who ordered Thor's banishment back in issue #432.....up until #455, where Odin regained control, as you know.
👆
There's no doubt that the creature is extremely powerful.
Heck, it was hinted that he's more powerful than Galactus, in one of the scans you posted from Thor #216:
http://i.imgur.com/3NNDjNk.jpg?1
Furthermore, the 1970s legacy handbook says that his power is greater than Galactus:
http://i.imgur.com/iOyUx76.jpg?1
Now, this may not be accurate but it gives you the general idea on what level he's supposed to be.....nice. Although that's a bit deviating from the point, i do consider Odin knocked out by the earthquake/sonic disruption/whatever, a low showing.
Not that it takes anything away from Odin. Every character has low showings, we simply take the average showings for each character, as im sure you're well aware.
👆
Originally posted by LordofBrooklynI was not crushed. You have no idea how to actually debate itself. This thread makes that point painfully obvious.
You were crushed.You came back after others picked up the debate.
The character in question has a single appearance which was posted here.
[B]I gave you not ONE but TWO examples of a Lord of Order, Fate, and a Lord of Chaos, Mordru. As clearly illustrated by the almighty scan, Dr. Fate Inza can draw upon BOTH the power of the Lords of Order/Chaos.
This was explained to you TWICE in this thread by other posters and yet you STILL return with the same irrational claims.
As I stated before, if Dr. Fate Inza could simply gain the power of a single Lord of Chaos, i.e. Mordru, it would be enough to beat Odin.
You've embarassed yourself yet again.
Wait and see if Operator will return and then post again. [/B]
No, it would not since it does not change the durability of Fate and since this isn't his average showing.
Quit ignoring the context. Odin wins.
Originally posted by beatboksYou cherry picked. You're clinging to the higher showings not the entire body of work. Operator already corrected you.
The Scans I loaded were specifically for the proof you asked scans for. I've ignored nothing because as I've stated al Classic Fate's low showings still don't show him being susceptible to physical hard. He just isn't, he can and has been immobilized, BFR'd and the like but not physically harmed. Hell even without his mystical talismans like the Helm Kent has been show to be able to tank just about anything. His only physical weakness without mystical artifacts is the need to breath. A weakness he looses once he dons the Helm of Nabu and becomes a Lord of order.He is of course limited by the same rules of magic that affect all the DCU which limit he amount of magical energy that a mortal form can wield without destroying it. This is the reason the talismans are needed in the first place. It's also the reason why he invokes the power of other gods in SA stories and why Nabu has always altered his host to be more resilient and durable. drawing power through talismans, familiars or higher beings is the only way a mortal can within the DCU's ninth age of magic - this is a weakness that say beings like Spectre, Shade, Eclipso and Zor do not have as their existence is freed from such restraints. Mentioned in one of the scans I loaded of the Fate Spectre fight also and highlighted iirc by sun dipped. This very limitation doesn't apply as much here due to OP set up. As this is merged Kent and Inza they draw powder through all mankind ( meaning millions of "familiars" to handle any overload of power) and their form is a merger of two mortal forms and a lord of Order essence ( so can take much more power strain and call on more magic).
As for accepting it, do you have a problem keeping up? I've stated since the start of this thread and said it about 5 times now Odin would beat standard Dr Fate but Fate would give him a fight( something operator I believe succeeded to). The reasons are simply
1. His durability that has not had a lower showing to counter
2. In his classic appearances Fate is more often portrayed as an energy manipulator who senses the energy within the danger he faces and draws on it to fight that danger with its own power. Pretty much the same way modern Mordru is portrayed like when he fought Shazam on the ROE or took the star heart. Even classic Mordru drained all the magic of sorcerers world and the universe.I've actually not said anywhere that Fate wins, so please open your eyes and read. I've questioned the use of a version of a character with so little evidence to support them and who is highly speculative. Maybe you should make sure you have an accurate representation of the position another poster takes before trying to put words in their mouth.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
This might be a better approach.Page 2 of this thread sums up things nicely.
1)Dr.Fate/INZA- I claim that Dr.Fate in this incarnation can access the power of Both the Lords of Order and Lords of Chaos. That would mean that ANY of the Lords are viable for him to take power from.
This claim is supported by other posters on page 2.
2)Picking the Most Powerful- This is addressed in point one but I'll do so again. I chose Mordru as an example that would be easily recognizable and has enough appearances to draw an appropriate gauge of his power. I've stated as much.
3) Scans- Beatboks, I hesitate to even mention his name as the attachment might be drawn as a negative. Neverthless, he was gracious enough to post scans that show that Dr. Fate Inza can draw upon the power of humanity as well. A fact that I haven't even factored in because I feel it is unnecessary.
In closing, I made claims and those claims were affirmed by both scans and statements. Anything beyond that now has nothing to do with the actual debate at hand but obfuscation based on personal attacks.
So, you're choosing a specific Fate, right?
