The God Jewel creature was actually pretty powerful:
Also, earlier in that story, it's power was said to perhaps rival Odin's more or less:
So even then, Odin when not weakened at least, was a high end being. Sif and Karnilla sustaining the basic power of the creature is probably also very impressive if I were to think about it.
Although I should probably re-read the entire story for all the details.
Originally posted by Golgo13
Are you talking about Cosmic Odyssey?
Yes, that's where it happened.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I get that you're not really interested but I'd just like to note that Masterson simply knocked over Odin who was actually Loki in his noticeably weakened body:
http://s16.postimg.org/wy9w3oyrp/Thor455_13.jpg
http://s16.postimg.org/3xa5813ph/Thor455_14.jpg
Yup. Loki was technically in control for over a 2 dozen issues. Because it was revealed that Loki was the one who ordered Thor's banishment back in issue #432.....up until #455, where Odin regained control, as you know.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'd also like to note even an issue later after Odin is taken out by the "earthquake" (Some all-powerful God Jewel let out a powerful sonic vibration that took everyone out), he notes that his full strength has yet to return:http://postimg.org/image/bau4kqd4n/
Just to add some context to these claims. While, it's true that Conway's Odin wasn't the all-powerful Cosmic entity that Lee/Kirby wrote about before, his overall power depiction was still superior to a lot of stories that Fate was in. Even when you take into account ants with lasers.
👆
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The God Jewel creature was actually pretty powerful:http://postimg.org/image/q5y401yox/
http://postimg.org/image/4xkfimk81/
http://postimg.org/image/p6cei38wx/
http://postimg.org/image/508wj7d9d/
http://postimg.org/image/5ti8wiytn/
http://postimg.org/image/3q7touz0r/
http://postimg.org/image/tn1i1h2ob/Also, earlier in that story, it's power was said to perhaps rival Odin's more or less:
http://postimg.org/image/pxj1rnbs9/
So even then, Odin when not weakened at least, was a high end being. Sif and Karnilla sustaining the basic power of the creature is probably also very impressive if I were to think about it.
Although I should probably re-read the entire story for all the details.
There's no doubt that the creature is extremely powerful.
Heck, it was hinted that he's more powerful than Galactus, in one of the scans you posted from Thor #216:
http://i.imgur.com/3NNDjNk.jpg?1
Furthermore, the 1970s legacy handbook says that his power is greater than Galactus:
http://i.imgur.com/iOyUx76.jpg?1
Now, this may not be accurate but it gives you the general idea on what level he's supposed to be.....nice. Although that's a bit deviating from the point, i do consider Odin knocked out by the earthquake/sonic disruption/whatever, a low showing.
Not that it takes anything away from Odin. Every character has low showings, we simply take the average showings for each character, as im sure you're well aware.
originally posted by Lord Of Brooklyn Those scans were in reference to the false claim of Dr. Fate having a "Glass jaw".
orignially posted by Operator616Yeah, my main point is that Spectre > fate.
O_o that goes without saying and it's mores like Spectre >>>> Fate. even the scans i used show Spec bests Fate (as he has in all four of their altercations). The whole point of ALL that was to demonstrate even Spectre can't destroy Fate. Even fate's low showings don't show him susceptible to sustainable damage. At best he's been immobilized, BFR'd, or some such. Odin would beat standard Classic Fate every time I simply believe that Fate would put up a decent fight before he goes down.
--- Moving on to Fate's powers being outright ineffective:
More Fun Comics #69, Fate is completely helpless against someone who's intangible/non-physical:http://i.imgur.com/PZsn0Y6.jpg?1
In the end he only won by destroying the machine (through plot) which rendered intangibility; bio confirmation, that fate couldn't do any physical harm:
Gotta love the inconsistency of those old GA stories huh? it was just a couple of issues later during a the telling of Fate's origin he was after some hell lord Nedal (something close, I remember thinking when the countdown to mystery story of kent V was unfolding how wicked to tribute the original not just with the name but the first opponent)or some such IIRC. In that tale he easily dispatched similar "wraiths" despite being a complete neophyte. It was the story after the one where he revealed himself to Inza as Kent after saving the Leopard from being tricked into killing herself.
you didn't seem any trouble accepting Beatbok's scans, some of which "don't involve this Fate".
Six or seven pages of material to judge a version by simply isn't enough which is why it mostly becomes conjecture.
it's just that some people here (like LoB) are presenting Fate as an all-powerful character (which he's far from), is all.
I hope I'm not one of those people, if it seemed that way it was certainly NOT my intent. He is far from all powerful. He's certainly high up the ranks in DC's power houses but no where near an all powerful character. he is limited like all other DCU mystics by the laws of DC magic (which fro Classic fate was under the 9th age)
Originally posted by beatboks
O_o that goes without saying and it's mores like Spectre >>>> Fate. even the scans i used show Spec bests Fate (as he has in all four of their altercations). The whole point of ALL that was to demonstrate even Spectre can't destroy Fate. Even fate's low showings don't show him susceptible to sustainable damage. At best he's been immobilized, BFR'd, or some such.Odin would beat standard Classic Fate every time I simply believe that Fate would put up a decent fight before he goes down.
Yeah, that goes without saying for someone like you (who actually read the stories), but for those who didn't, and based on scans/comments posted in this thread, some may think that Fate was at the very least at Spectre's level (which would be.....multiversal level, at least in some minds). Im sure many people don't read classic stories. Hence the clarification.
That aside, I do remember knocking the Spectre and himself in the process in another encounter (it's from JLA #193, the part which features special All star squadron preview):
http://i.imgur.com/ZogNBOl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pr9u50a.jpg
Fair enough on the second part.
Originally posted by beatboksGotta love the inconsistency of those old GA stories huh? it was just a couple of issues later during a the telling of Fate's origin he was after some hell lord Nedal.
Yes, which is why he's not the all powerful character some are presenting him to be (not pointing at you).
also, Fate's first origins story, was told before more fun comics #69. It was in the same More Fun comics issue (Spectre's story) which had Kathoon mind-control the Spectre or something like that.
Originally posted by beatboks
and this brings me back to where I came in, there just aren't enough scans OF THIS Fate. basically we have the 5 pages of the story where he battled Ynar and Vaneamon, a page or so after the mantle passed back to Kent and Inza from Erik and Linda and the scan I showed earlier which is after Inza breaks Chaos' as her power source and draws from all mankind and can once again merge with Kent.Six or seven pages of material to judge a version by simply isn't enough which is why it mostly becomes conjecture.
Yep, although that version of Fate featured in the Flash story, does definitely have a chance against Odin, im not saying otherwise. but it's definitely not a certain win for Fate (like LoB is saying here).
And there's that one thing, the world returned back to normal as a side effect of Fate beating the lords. And in that Flash issue (#312) we merely saw the landscape warped:
http://i.imgur.com/uJ4PlOz.jpg
So it's a bit questionable, regarding the scale of the feat.
But yeah, too much limited material to go by.
Originally posted by beatboks
I hope I'm not one of those people, if it seemed that way it was certainly NOT my intent. He is far from all powerful. He's certainly high up the ranks in DC's power houses but no where near an all powerful character. he is limited like all other DCU mystics by the laws of DC magic (which fro Classic fate was under the 9th age)
Ive got no problem with you. At least you are respectful and backing up your stance with evidence, as opposed to someone like LoB who just makes fun of other people comments and hides behind your back.
Originally posted by operator616
At least you are respectful and backing up your stance with evidence, as opposed to someone like LoB who just makes fun of other people comments and hides behind your back.
Your statement here is completely baseless.
If someone engages in a debate there is at minimum a presumption of the parties involved having a modicum of knowledge about the subject at hand. Do you mean to tell me that I have to post "Evidence" of the power of the Lords of Order and Lords of Chaos to people denying their power? These are characters, especially in the form of the 2 most well known members, Dr. Fate and Mordru that have been around for several decades.
You are clearly exhibiting Marvel bias and trying to hide it using me as a crutch.
Would it be reasonable of me to require "Evidence" that Odin can draw the power of Asdardians unto himself? Or demand "Scans" indicating his power as a Mage?
Quan got stomped because he knew nothing of Dr. Fate, Nabu, Mordru, Inza or any of the other characters involved in that aspect of canon.
Pym follows up with an argument favoring "Physicality" on Odin's part to a character that has the power of all the Lords of Order and Chaos, How is that a plausible scenario for Odin winning?
I have to hide behind no ones back. The claims I made are backed by CANON, pure and simple.
There isn't a single argument or assertion that I've made that came AFTER Beatboks post. NONE. So again, your statement is totally without merit.
Originally posted by beatboksYou are cherry picking just like people do with Stranges feats while keeping your distance from the average and completely ignoring the lower ones.
Please state what exaggeration it is I've supposed to have made?Every statement I've made in this text has been supported by the on panel evidence that proves it.
I've not even said throughout this thread that Fate wins because as I stated we haven't seen enough of this amped version to be sure. We've seen the four or five pages of the Ynar and Vaneamon battle and the few during the Inza fate run when they merged there. The merged entity has the power of order, chaos and humanity ( literally stated on panel to draw power from the several billion lives on earth- which I won't load the scan of because obviously you don't even look at them). It also Shari's their intellect with all man, woman and god seeing through each other and sharing control ( unlike standard classic Fate who was purely controlled by Nabu)
On her own Inza was the least powerful Dr Fate in "destructive" power but the most powerful in creative. She even creative 100's autonomous reality warping service baubles that could grant wishes and act on her behalf when she wasn't around to protect her neighbors.
Kent was the most powerful destructive user.
I've only questioned your baseless claims. You've made statements like "beings that pose a threat to Fate" when there has never been one that does pose a threat to Classic Fate and this is an amped version. I'm still waiting to hear what these alleged beings are, that don't exist. Only exaggeration a I can see are the ones coming from you. Not in relation to Odin but in what has been a problem for Fate
Odin is portrayed much higher on average than Fate combo here. Just accept it.
Originally posted by "Id"Hyperbole.
I am not posting scans."Amon-Ra make me one with you to destroy your enemy! The Sun-God fills my very being...I am Amon-Ra incarnate!" - Fate
Originally posted by LordofBrooklynNo, he couldn't just like Strange can't give him a battle either. Odin is much higher and quit ignoring the average portrayals here.
Normal Dr. Fate would give Odin a battle.This is NOT normal Dr. Fate but Dr. Fate + Inza. His power in this version is increased tremendously. Your resistance in accepting what not only I but other knowledgeable posters have said in this debate makes no sense.
Lets play it your way.
Dr. Fate here simply has his own power as a Lord of Order and Mordru's power as a Lord of Chaos.
[B]Can Odin defeat both Dr. Fate and Mordru at the same time?
[/B]
Odin would crush Mordru since lightning owns the guy.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Your statement here is completely baseless.If someone engages in a debate there is at minimum a presumption of the parties involved having a modicum of knowledge about the subject at hand. Do you mean to tell me that I have to post "Evidence" of the power of the Lords of Order and Lords of Chaos to people denying their power? These are characters, especially in the form of the 2 most well known members, Dr. Fate and Mordru that have been around for several decades.
You must post evidence, when you're asked for it. In which case.....you didn't. For example, when Quan asked for scans of Fate being one with the deity he invokes; you made a sarcastic comment how that's "basic knowledge" or something instead of posting actual evidence and getting it out of the way (shouldn't be too hard considering it's "basic knowledge", you know, which it isn't, btw).
You didn't even have to post evidence, you can simply reference a feat like "Id" did; he just referenced an example of how Fate invoked/became one with Amon-Ra (which is true, this happened toward the end of 1st Issue Special #9, or the reprint in Immortal Doctor Fate #1).
That's how things work.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
You are clearly exhibiting Marvel bias and trying to hide it using me as a crutch.
Really? Tell me exactly how im "bias". Go ahead.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
There isn't a single argument or assertion that I've made that came AFTER Beatboks post. NONE. So again, your statement is totally without merit.
Well, im pretty sure that Beatboks was the one who posted the scans from Flash/Immortal Dr Fate.
After which all your arguments been "But this fate has the power of lords of order and chaos"; you were also making faulty claims such as "Odin can't beat even 2 lords of order/chaos", which is wrong. As a collective, it would become a different matter.
Whatever though, im done here.
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Originally posted by operator616
And in that Flash issue (#312)
Flash #313. Typo.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Hyperbole.
No it's not. It was illustrated on panel, we see the image of Amon-Ra (1st issue special #9):
http://i.imgur.com/Nkay5Wf.jpg?1
so it's definitely not a hyperbole.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Hyperbole.No, he couldn't just like Strange can't give him a battle either. Odin is much higher and quit ignoring the average portrayals here.
Odin would crush Mordru since lightning owns the guy.
Thank you for posting this.
You've just illustrated everything I posted about earlier.
Lightning "Owns" Mordru and yet if someone were to post a low point for Odin, they are "Cherry Picking"
You've arrived just in time, Quan.
Originally posted by operator616Hyperbole in the sense that being Amon Ra doesn't really prove anything at base value. Just like posting evidence Odin is omnipotent is hyperbole despite it being in the comics themselves.
You must post evidence, when you're asked for it. In which case.....you didn't. For example, when Quan asked for scans of Fate being one with the deity he invokes; you made a sarcastic comment how that's "basic knowledge" or something instead of posting actual evidence and getting it out of the way (shouldn't be too hard considering it's "basic knowledge", you know, which it isn't, btw).You didn't even have to post evidence, you can simply reference a feat like "Id" did; he just referenced an example of how Fate invoked/became one with Amon-Ra (which is true, this happened toward the end of 1st Issue Special #9, or the reprint in Immortal Doctor Fate #1).
That's how things work.
Really? Tell me exactly how im "bias". Go ahead.
Well, im pretty sure that Beatboks was the one who posted the scans from Flash/Immortal Dr Fate.
After which all your arguments been "But this fate has the power of lords of order and chaos"; you were also making faulty claims such as "Odin can't beat even 2 lords of order/chaos", which is wrong. As a collective, it would become a different matter.
Whatever though, im done here.
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Flash #313. Typo.
No it's not. It was illustrated on panel, we see the image of Amon-Ra (1st issue special #9):
http://i.imgur.com/Nkay5Wf.jpg?1
so it's definitely not a hyperbole.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklynA clear point was how lightning clearly effects him. Odin has made his son the god of thunder so it is a bad matchup for Mordru. Odin also can absorb Mordru which he has a fear of. All in all Odin slaps the piss out of Mordru any which way you want it.
Thank you for posting this.You've just illustrated everything I posted about earlier.
Lightning "Owns" Mordru and yet if someone were to post a low point for Odin, they are "Cherry Picking"
You've arrived just in time, Quan.
🙂
Originally posted by pym-ftw
so you feign ignorance, then admit to lying, and follow it up by again doubling down on lying.
YOU. FAILED. TO. READ. BEFORE. POSTING.
YOU THEN MADE A CLAIM THAT WAS ALREADY ANSWERED PRIOR.
To then claim that I'm lying, and now doubling down on lying is absolutely asinine!
Originally posted by LordofBrooklynhonestly are you incapable of reading what your typing? You said the scans were posted in response of what I said, which is a LIE, you haven't refuted anything and have made hypothetit claims based solely on platitudes and titles.
YOU. FAILED. TO. READ. BEFORE. POSTING.YOU THEN MADE A CLAIM THAT WAS ALREADY ANSWERED PRIOR.
To then claim that I'm lying, and now doubling down on lying is absolutely asinine!
The irony of your posts are amazing, now your lying about what your posting and expecting me to infer from the tripe your spewing that you have something worthwhile to add.
Originally posted by operator616
You must post evidence, when you're asked for it. In which case.....you didn't. For example, when Quan asked for scans of Fate being one with the deity he invokes; you made a sarcastic comment how that's "basic knowledge" or something instead of posting actual evidence and getting it out of the way (shouldn't be too hard considering it's "basic knowledge", you know, which it isn't, btw).You didn't even have to post evidence, you can simply reference a feat like "Id" did; he just referenced an example of how Fate invoked/became one with Amon-Ra (which is true, this happened toward the end of 1st Issue Special #9, or the reprint in Immortal Doctor Fate #1).
That's how things work.
Really? Tell me exactly how im "bias". Go ahead.
Well, im pretty sure that Beatboks was the one who posted the scans from Flash/Immortal Dr Fate.
After which all your arguments been "But this fate has the power of lords of order and chaos"; you were also making faulty claims such as "Odin can't beat even 2 lords of order/chaos", which is wrong. As a collective, it would become a different matter.
Whatever though, im done here.
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Not so fast.
Dr. Fate has taken on The Spectre under circumstances where he was not augmented and held his own.
You mean to tell me that a character that can battle The Spectre to this extent can't give Odin a battle?
Would I need to post scans demonstrating The Spectre's power here to validate the claim?
Mordru is the most powerful Lord of Chaos. Let us say he is equally as powerful as Normal fate.
The combination of Dr. Fate and Mordru isn't enough to beat Odin?
Enlighten me as to why this is faulty.
What is truly bizarre here is that the scans of Dr.Fate/Inza are on the FIRST PAGE and still you have a requirement for "Evidence".
Would the canon become more valid if I post it?
Originally posted by pym-ftw
honestly are you incapable of reading what your typing? You said the scans were posted in response of what I said, which is a LIE, you haven't refuted anything and have made hypothetit claims based solely on platitudes and titles.The irony of your posts are amazing, now your lying about what your posting and expecting me to infer from the tripe your spewing that you have something worthwhile to add.
Give me a break.
You made a claim.
You were proven wrong.
You won't accept it and now are diverting the argument to personal attacks.
Pathetic.
Originally posted by pym-ftw👆
honestly are you incapable of reading what your typing? You said the scans were posted in response of what I said, which is a LIE, you haven't refuted anything and have made hypothetit claims based solely on platitudes and titles.The irony of your posts are amazing, now your lying about what your posting and expecting me to infer from the tripe your spewing that you have something worthwhile to add.
