Cyborg Superman vs Orion

Originally posted by Delta1938
Thought I'd point-out in COUNTDOWN when Orion rips-out Darkseid's heart, he previously brought-up the whole son will kill the father thing, and said Darkseid's own heart was "fire-pit enough to fulfill the prophecy!!" It could be Orin talking shit, but looked to me like it was Orion accomplishing it because he was destined to kill Darkseid. Whether he was amped(he was stalemating Darksied in a strength lock) due to something related to the prophecy or it was similar to Drax ripping-out Thanos' heart, it just doesn't feel like that would apply to a fight with anybody BUT Darkseid.

Under normal circumstances, I would expect Superman to one-shot Orion 10 out of 10 times in a forum fight. Don't see why the same can't be said of Cyborg Superman.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What?

Do YOU know what invulnerable means?

It'll be worse once Hank takes control of the Asstro Harness (not a typo).

Originally posted by Epicurus
I'd say it was definitely reminiscent of the Drax/Thanos incident.

Under normal circumstances, I would expect Superman to one-shot Orion 10 out of 10 times in a forum fight. Don't see why the same can't be said of Cyborg Superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nobody is totally invulnerable. Its all relative.

So....your scan didn't show much, lol. Which brings me back to the original point.

Are the stress tolerances of Hank's body beyond what Orion can dish out, considering the casual nature of Superman's chest punching?

Originally posted by Epicurus
I'd say it was definitely reminiscent of the Drax/Thanos incident.

Under normal circumstances, I would expect Superman to one-shot Orion 10 out of 10 times in a forum fight. Don't see why the same can't be said of Cyborg Superman.

huh What makes you think Superman would one-shot Orion every single time?

And Cy generally isn't as strong as Superman or as formidable in hand-to-hand combat(unless it's his Sinestro Corps days and he's amping with all those Power Rings). He tends to make-up for it with his body morphing to make weapons and his technopathy. I could so see him creating a weapon specifically attuned to Orion to one-shot him, possibly even altering his heat vision to hurt Orion(he has done shit like that, although the only time I can think of off the top of my head was Superman-Blue, so might not be the same for physical beings), but not sure if I'd see Cy one-shotting Orion through pure strength.

Originally posted by Delta1938
huh What makes you think Superman would one-shot Orion every single time?

And Cy generally isn't as strong as Superman or as formidable in hand-to-hand combat(unless it's his Sinestro Corps days and he's amping with all those Power Rings). He tends to make-up for it with his body morphing to make weapons and his technopathy. I could so see him creating a weapon specifically attuned to Orion to one-shot him, possibly even altering his heat vision to hurt Orion(he has done shit like that, although the only time I can think of off the top of my head was Superman-Blue, so might not be the same for physical beings), but not sure if I'd see Cy one-shotting Orion through pure strength.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Wut? I don't think Superman can oneshot Orion under normal circumstances. Sure he did it once but that's not his average against Orion. This is going to be a good fight but I favor Hank 6/10.

Anyways, me giving Hank the definitive edge against Orion has less to do with the near Superman-level physicality and more to do with(as Delta1938 pointed out) with his more exotic abilities specifically the technopathy.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So....your scan didn't show much, lol. Which brings me back to the original point.

Are the stress tolerances of Hank's body beyond what Orion can dish out, considering the casual nature of Superman's chest punching?

Originally posted by Epicurus
Because of the numerous instances where Superman has come across as being either directly or indirectly superior to him. Under forum fight conditions, I would clearly give Superman 10/10 win against Orion. Opinions vary.

Anyways, me giving Hank the definitive edge against Orion has less to do with the near Superman-level physicality and more to do with(as Delta1938 pointed out) with his more exotic abilities specifically the technopathy.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because as Superman says Hank's skin mimics his own skin. Can orion punch through kryptonian durability? I don't think so.
Ok.

Except his chest isn't covered by skin? Even if it was, there are sides which aren't?

Originally posted by Epicurus
Because of the numerous instances where Superman has come across as being either directly or indirectly superior to him. Under forum fight conditions, I would clearly give Superman 10/10 win against Orion. Opinions vary.

Anyways, me giving Hank the definitive edge against Orion has less to do with the near Superman-level physicality and more to do with(as Delta1938 pointed out) with his more exotic abilities specifically the technopathy.

Yeah, Superman is physically superior to Orion, but Orion seems to be closer to being called Superman's physical equal than anybody else. I guess if Superman went all-out every single time, Superman would one-shot for at least the majority. 10/10 if he used his speed(whether just to hit Orion before he could react, or to amp his striking power as well). But the actual rule of "to the best of their ability" or however it is is contradictory and confusing considering the arguments not just posters but mods have made about "that's not how they normally fight" and "that's not their average." So, eh. srug

And your--

Originally posted by Epicurus
Under normal circumstances, I would expect Superman to one-shot Orion 10 out of 10 times in a forum fight. Don't see why the same can't be said of Cyborg Superman.

--statement REALLY looks like you were arguing Cy on strength. But yeah, Cy is at the least strong enough to hang and his other powers should give him the edge. Disabling the Astro-Force Harness isn't the only thing he could do, he could actually have it attack Orion and entangle him before blowing-up. I wouldn't be shocked if Cy took-over Orion's Mother Box either.

On a side note I previously would've given Orion the majority in a pure hand-to-hand fight, but after seeing Cy's healing against classic Hal Parallax blasting holes in his chest, I'm not sure I would.

the bottom line here is that orion is undoubtedly capable of duplicating a strength feat that superman was able to preform easily.

superman is stronger than orion, but not THAT much stronger.

Originally posted by Delta1938
And your--

--statement REALLY looks like you were arguing Cy on strength. But yeah, Cy is at the least strong enough to hang and his other powers should give him the edge. Disabling the Astro-Force Harness isn't the only thing he could do, he could actually have it attack Orion and entangle him before blowing-up. I wouldn't be shocked if Cy took-over Orion's Mother Box either.

On a side note I previously would've given Orion the majority in a pure hand-to-hand fight, but after seeing Cy's healing against classic Hal Parallax blasting holes in his chest, I'm not sure I would.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Wut? I don't think Superman can oneshot Orion under normal circumstances. Sure he did it once but that's not his average against Orion. This is going to be a good fight but I favor Hank 6/10.

When did Supes oneshot Orion? All I've seen is orion oneshotting Superman with the AF.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
When did Supes oneshot Orion? All I've seen is orion oneshotting Superman with the AF.

Then Superman spends some time fighting Lightray and Orion comes back.

"Orion's back in the game." Meaning he was out for some time.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So if they're invulnerable...how is Superman later able to casually, CASUALLY, mid sentence, just reach in and rip his module out? Can't be THAT invulnerable.

Originally posted by Epicurus
I don't see that how that can be the case. I mentioned that I would give Superman a clear cut 10/10 majority against Orion, and the same should apparently be true of Henshaw imo. That's not me conflating their victories purely via strength.

Even if you're not counting just strength, it seems like you're arguing Cy wining 10/10 because you'd give Superman 10/10 over Orion, when Cy is physically weaker(in fact I'd put Orion over Cy in that department) and Cy operates quite differently from Superman. Even if you're factoring in his technopathy and other stuff, it just seems strange you would bring-up Superman like Cy is a virtual exact substitute. Cy is closer to a well written Martian Manhunter(meaning not portrayed as an almost worthless Superman-Lite with telepathy) than how Superman tends to operate.

Originally posted by Philosophía
That is the worst showing in Cyborg Superman's history - and one that doesn't even make sense. Cyborg Superman never had a central module, and considering the events and fights he's been through, and how thorough his body has been destroyed at times, he can't have one.

What's even weirder is in the fight with that Doomsday before, he was regenerating limbs as they were destroyed. But he couldn't regenerate a part inside him even if he's had one all this time?

Originally posted by abhilegend

Then Superman spends some time fighting Lightray and Orion comes back.

"Orion's back in the game." Meaning he was out for some time.

It's all possible he wasn't KO'ed but hit so far away from his Astro Harness took sometime to get back as he can't fly.

Originally posted by Philosophía
That is the worst showing in Cyborg Superman's history - and one that doesn't even make sense. Cyborg Superman never had a central module, and considering the events and fights he's been through, and how thorough his body has been destroyed at times, he can't have one.

Originally posted by Philosophía
That is the worst showing in Cyborg Superman's history - and one that doesn't even make sense. Cyborg Superman never had a central module, and considering the events and fights he's been through, and how thorough his body has been destroyed at times, he can't have one.

Originally posted by -K-M-
It's all possible he wasn't KO'ed but hit so far away from his Astro Harness took sometime to get back as he can't fly.

that's why superman said: "i have to get away from that maniac" after he'd already knocked orion away. if that one punch were enough to KO orion, supes wouldn't have still been concerned about putting distance between them, imo.

i should really do an orion respect thread.