Originally posted by carver9
I agree to an extent. If I was to go in a thread and say, "Surfer beats Superman 10/10". Lets say if someone ask me "how". What if I was to say "by reading Supermans mind (which is well within his abilities), figuring out the ingredients to make kryptonite, and then turning his body into kryptonite snow for the 10/10 (which is well within his abilities)". Would you all accept it? If you are implying rules like this in one battle, it should be spread across the board.We know Surfer will not do anything like this 'in character' but we also know it's within his abilities. Debating any other way would make people like Thor and Surfer unbeatable on the forum against any Herald minus themselves. ESPECIALLY Surfer. That's why CIS is beautiful rule.
I think you're misconstructing the argument. Surfer doesn't do complex ploys as the one you describe at all. It's rare that he uses transmutation and mindreading in any offensive capacity, but if he was prone to plot and combine his powers, I'd have no problem in giving him wins by such methods. CIS doesn't mean Surfer will just limit himself to beams, slug it out and "not use speed", it just means he won't be operating in levels of planning that are not within his limits.
Its different to state that Surfer will mindread Doom, use his brain to build a Cosmic Energy Absorber out of nothing and sap his energy back from him if Doom ever steals it, than to say, he'll outspeed Doom and bust the Cosmic Absorb machine. One includes lowballing a character physical status.
Originally posted by h1a8
Spidey wins this if he's serious. If he's not then it's going to be tough for him.
Pre-cog forewarning senses of attacks before they are thrown, Super flash like speed and reflexes, super agility, webbing that can slow or halt strong beings, intellgence to use the environment to his advantage, ridiculous super strength that can can hurt or sting the shit out of very strong beings, etc.
As usual, you didn't pay attention, skipped a few pages and thought that parroting your stance = debating.....
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I will argue those aren't looks of pain, but rather contorted in rage. She's a Hulk after all.But yeah, page ripping ftw.
My god, I've never seen people be so stubbornly wrong by what's clear on the page.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Aww, my bad. It's a little hard to tell who's kidding in situations like this.
He DOES mention how his head's going to be ringing into next week - which kinda defeats your own point of how he wasn't affected.And I was kidding about the facial expressions, btw.
Regardless, he recovered instantly from a hit by a much stronger person than he. And the head ringing could be from the thunderclap.
Originally posted by VeganDiet
Aww, my bad. It's a little hard to tell who's kidding in situations like this.Regardless, he recovered instantly from a hit by a much stronger person than he. And the head ringing could be from the thunderclap.
Nah, he specifically mentioned the shot, and then says his head will be ringing into next week. If he hadn't had that mask on, am sure he'd be grimacing in pain too. He was definitely affected long term (or at least, believed he would be), whereas Shulkie wasn't.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85You're right. Despite the absence of a pained grunt, despite the absolutely instant recovery, despite the absence of any evidence of a pained expression on his face, it's clear that the blow hurt Spider-man. (It would be important to consider that Spider-man recovered as quickly as Shulkie from a blow from someone far above his weight class rather than far below it)
Nah, he specifically mentioned the shot, and then says his head will be ringing into next week. If he hadn't had that mask on, am sure he'd be grimacing in pain too. He was definitely affected long term (or at least, believed he would be), whereas Shulkie wasn't.
Now, if you both could do me the favor of looking at the scan I posted earlier with the same level of honesty I just did, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Originally posted by VeganDiet
You're right. Despite the absence of a pained grunt, despite the absolutely instant recovery, despite the absence of any evidence of a pained expression on his face, it's clear that the blow hurt Spider-man. (It would be important to consider that Spider-man recovered as quickly as Shulkie from a blow from someone far above his weight class rather than far below it)Now, if you both could do me the favor of looking at the scan I posted earlier with the same level of honesty I just did, I'd greatly appreciate it.
He's wearing a mask, mate. How can you tell?
Besides, I thought it was all negated because Shulkie breaks the 4th walll...
Originally posted by DarkSaint85I said there's no evidence of it. So with even less evidence than there is in the She-Hulk scan, we've both agreed that the blow still hurt Spidey.
He's wearing a mask, mate. How can you tell?Besides, I thought it was all negated because Shulkie breaks the 4th walll...
Originally posted by VeganDiet
I said there's no evidence of it. So with even less evidence than there is in the She-Hulk scan, we've both agreed that the blow still hurt Spidey.
If the evidence in the Hulk vs. Spidey example is enough to say he was hurt, then the evidence in the Spidey vs. She Hulk scan is enough to say she was hurt.
The evidence is what Spidey himself said.
There was no evidence of that kind in the Shulkie scan doe. So there's MORE evidence in the Spidey/Hulk scan.
Plus, apples/oranges. She's a Hulk. They are known for their durability/HF, especially the madder they get.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The evidence is what Spidey himself said.There was no evidence of that kind in the Shulkie scan doe. So there's MORE evidence in the Spidey/Hulk scan.
Plus, apples/oranges. She's a Hulk. They are known for their durability/HF, especially the madder they get.
Originally posted by VeganDiet
So Spider-man going telling the setup of a joke is now more evidence than shouting "Unngh" and making a face like you're passing an Everest sized kidney stone?
Jesus Christ. There is at least equal evidence of She Hulk being in pain from Spider-man's blow. So either they were both hurt in the scans or neither of them were.
We're just going round and round. Let's agree to disagree. Because of two things:
A: SpOck has been shown to be weaker than Peter, due to his lack of heart force.
B: Subsequent to that showing posted, She-Hulk has had several upgrades. To the point, when she's pissed off, Excalibur when wielded by Lionheart, who has superstrength, can't hurt her:
