Originally posted by Bentleykabuto has sound powers himself as well as the ability to liquefy his body enough to negate the sound genjutsu.
Kabuto seemed to have geared himself against disabling eye jutsu (I guess he predicted a battle against Tobi?), the frog song being a sound based genjutsu could've gotten through him. It is true that if Itachi was going all out, sealing Kabuto with the sword would've been a better straight solution than Izanami.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
You're playing semantics mister douchenozzle.Mind you your version of strategy is tenuous as best. Itachi had just as much control over his fake battle with Sasuke as he did with his Kabuto battle. The only difference was the end goal.
Now the destruction of Kanabi bridge. That was strategic. Have to be a real dashing and manly man to pull that one off. 313
I'm looking at it from a military perspective where a strategy is a long term plan that typically encompasses the entire scenario, while a tactic is a short term action that is more focused towards helping bring about the strategy's success.
And your definitions are different, despite seeming similar. 'Specific end' and 'major/overall aim' can be two different things.
But yes, I am arguing semantics, since I think you douchenozzles really mean tactics instead of strategy. uhuh
It's something he actually planned out beforehand, unlike the Kabuto battle. His tactics in the Uchiha hideout fight were all geared towards pushing Sasuke to the brink. Whereas in the Kabuto fight, it was what? At worst you could say it was landing Izanami. Hardly comparable, especially since he had little to no idea what Kabuto was capable of.
This doesn't matter though. I can't recall Minato or Itachi coming up with complex plans that span a 'long' battle or battles, like Shikamaru has, in the midst of a fight to boot. The most complex strat I can think of from either of the two is the Uchiha hideout fight, and that's not saying much.
They primarily use deductions, counters based on said deductions, and hax in their fights. Ergo, tacticians.
Where Minato had the guys toss a bunch of kunai and he used FTG? I guess that could be seen as strategy; while it is a bawss one, it's hardly complex.
Compare that with an Itachi clone who had our favourite elderly kunoichi shitting her pants after he'd revealed some of his abilities to Kakashi and Naruto a few years earlier. Have to be 10x more manly than Minato to pull that strat off. 313
Sorry for the tl;dr.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I'm looking at it from a military perspective where a strategy is a long term plan that typically encompasses the entire scenario, while a tactic is a short term action that is more focused towards helping bring about the strategy's success.
And your definitions are different, despite seeming similar. 'Specific end' and 'major/overall aim' can be two different things.
But yes, I am arguing semantics, since I think you douchenozzles really mean tactics instead of strategy. uhuhIt's something he actually planned out beforehand, unlike the Kabuto battle. His tactics in the Uchiha hideout fight were all geared towards pushing Sasuke to the brink. Whereas in the Kabuto fight, it was what? At worst you could say it was landing Izanami. Hardly comparable, especially since he had little to no idea what Kabuto was capable of.
This doesn't matter though. I can't recall Minato or Itachi coming up with complex plans that span a 'long' battle or battles, like Shikamaru has, in the midst of a fight to boot. The most complex strat I can think of from either of the two is the Uchiha hideout fight, and that's not saying much.
They primarily use deductions, counters based on said deductions, and hax in their fights. Ergo, tacticians.Where Minato had the guys toss a bunch of kunai and he used FTG? I guess that could be seen as strategy; while it is a bawss one, it's hardly complex.
Compare that with an Itachi clone who had our favourite elderly kunoichi shitting her pants after he'd revealed some of his abilities to Kakashi and Naruto a few years earlier. Have to be 10x more manly than Minato to pull that strat off. 313Sorry for the tl;dr.
exacta 😎
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I'm looking at it from a military perspective where a strategy is a long term plan that typically encompasses the entire scenario, while a tactic is a short term action that is more focused towards helping bring about the strategy's success.
And your definitions are different, despite seeming similar. 'Specific end' and 'major/overall aim' can be two different things.
But yes, I am arguing semantics, since I think you douchenozzles really mean tactics instead of strategy. uhuhIt's something he actually planned out beforehand, unlike the Kabuto battle. His tactics in the Uchiha hideout fight were all geared towards pushing Sasuke to the brink. Whereas in the Kabuto fight, it was what? At worst you could say it was landing Izanami. Hardly comparable, especially since he had little to no idea what Kabuto was capable of.
This doesn't matter though. I can't recall Minato or Itachi coming up with complex plans that span a 'long' battle or battles, like Shikamaru has, in the midst of a fight to boot. The most complex strat I can think of from either of the two is the Uchiha hideout fight, and that's not saying much.
They primarily use deductions, counters based on said deductions, and hax in their fights. Ergo, tacticians.Where Minato had the guys toss a bunch of kunai and he used FTG? I guess that could be seen as strategy; while it is a bawss one, it's hardly complex.
Compare that with an Itachi clone who had our favourite elderly kunoichi shitting her pants after he'd revealed some of his abilities to Kakashi and Naruto a few years earlier. Have to be 10x more manly than Minato to pull that strat off. 313Sorry for the tl;dr.
Yes yes but strictly speaking military strategy is more like this or this. Where the individual approaches an entire situation and forms a sequence of events based on evidence.
Yeah but that's a strategy in the same way the rope-a-dope style of fighting is a strategy. Itachi really had no idea what Sasuke could actually do, or at least we're given little evidence that he did, so his plan basically boiled down to no-selling everything while appearing like he wasn't. And as you've said it is tenuous at best.
I agree that strictly speaking in battle one does not approach a situation with a strategy unless you're Shikamaru since he always seems to find the time. Battles simply move too fast for that. Sasuke can probably still do it since his overall goal in the Deidara fight was "disable this guy" and in battle formulated a plan to do so with careful observation but that is it. Then there is really early stuff where Naruto really did just flat out beat Zabuza through a series of motions that must be called a strategy.
But we both can agree, I hope, that PG really does want us to examine both men as tacticians.
Well beyond that he gave Kakashi a kunai which essentially allowed Minato to act as quick support to the infiltration team while also assisting the front lines. Had Minato not taken into account the danger his team would face and given Kakashi the kunai, Rin and Kakashi would have died with Obito. Actually I do wonder how Obito's arc would have gone in such a situation but that is neither here nor there.
Chiyo didn't shit herself because of Itachi but rather because she is old and she can poop whenever she wants. She considered Itachi so beneath her she didn't even bother bringing out a puppet.
Now for a good comparison between Minato and Itachi one need only look at how they handled Obito. awesome
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Yes yes but strictly speaking military strategy is more like this or this. Where the individual approaches an entire situation and forms a sequence of events based on evidence.Yeah but that's a strategy in the same way the rope-a-dope style of fighting is a strategy. Itachi really had no idea what Sasuke could actually do, or at least we're given little evidence that he did, so his plan basically boiled down to no-selling everything while appearing like he wasn't. And as you've said it is tenuous at best.
I agree that strictly speaking in battle one does not approach a situation with a strategy unless you're Shikamaru since he always seems to find the time. Battles simply move too fast for that. Sasuke can probably still do it since his overall goal in the Deidara fight was "disable this guy" and in battle formulated a plan to do so with careful observation but that is it. Then there is really early stuff where Naruto really did just flat out beat Zabuza through a series of motions that must be called a strategy.
But we both can agree, I hope, that PG really does want us to examine both men as tacticians.
Well beyond that he gave Kakashi a kunai which essentially allowed Minato to act as quick support to the infiltration team while also assisting the front lines. Had Minato not taken into account the danger his team would face and given Kakashi the kunai, Rin and Kakashi would have died with Obito. Actually I do wonder how Obito's arc would have gone in such a situation but that is neither here nor there.
Chiyo didn't shit herself because of Itachi but rather because she is old and she can poop whenever she wants. She considered Itachi so beneath her she didn't even bother bringing out a puppet.
Now for a good comparison between Minato and Itachi one need only look at how they handled Obito. awesome
Well, yeah. I never brought those up since we were talking about single fights, and how 'strategic' characters are in battle.
Actually, he probably did have a decent idea of what Sasuke could do. There was that short encounter where Sasuke blitzed one of his crow clones. The only things that caught him completely off-guard were the Tsukuyomi counter (possibly, unless he threw the Tsukuyomi intentionally like Tobi suggested vin) and Kirin's awesomeness.
There's Konan taking on Tobi as well. I think that would qualify as a strategic approach on Konan's part. Too bad she never accounted for Izanagi.
The latest chapter could be a case for Minato though. I have to look at it.
Yep.
Maybe he'd have returned to Konoha. Seeing Rin die in front of him really screwed him up.
You mean Chiyo was too scared to bring out a puppet against a 30% clone. That's why she was hanging around behind Naruto. 😛
Well, Tobi was always amazed by Itachi, and was careful never to take him on. 313
doubts
although Minato's one badass ninja, I think Itachi's not someone he could deal with so easily. Just the lift of his finger and poof, genjutsu. Minato should be skilled enough to break that, but considering his genjutsus are powerful as fu.... well.. you know where i'm getting. Like what the guy said he's dangerous and with the amaterasu he might even hit Minato, that is, if he manages to. I think Minato would barely escape amaterasu since you knows it's fast. Minato's fast and all but with his normal-fast-speed which is already insanely fast, he'd barely make it out of amaterasu.
They're both dangerous ninjas, even though they don't look like it. Itachi sure is far more dangerous but this depends on who would really win a fight. They may be equals. Maybe Itachi'd lose, Maybe Minato would lose. Although Itachi has some of the most impressive techniques in the manga. It's confusing but Itachi is far more dangerous hands down no hands even lol idk i cant make up my mind DEPENDS IF THEIR ABILITIES WOULD COUNTER THE OTHER REALLY. We haven't really seen the full extent of Minato's abilities. So far we've seen him do some various sealing techniques, FLYING RAIJIN, and RASENGAN their ass. It's because he has such an advantage over his enemies with only rasengan and Flying Thunder God. Well Itachi's not a normal enemy.... so we'll just have to come up with ideas on how the fight would go. rpg or something. 😕 😮
please forgive me senpai this is my first reply on this forum this topic was the only reason why i signed up in the first place.
Re: doubts
Originally posted by alli25
although Minato's one badass ninja, I think Itachi's not someone he could deal with so easily. Just the lift of his finger and poof, genjutsu. Minato should be skilled enough to break that, but considering his genjutsus are powerful as fu.... well.. you know where i'm getting. Like what the guy said he's dangerous and with the amaterasu he might even hit Minato, that is, if he manages to. I think Minato would barely escape amaterasu since you knows it's fast. Minato's fast and all but with his normal-fast-speed which is already insanely fast, he'd barely make it out of amaterasu.They're both dangerous ninjas, even though they don't look like it. Itachi sure is far more dangerous but this depends on who would really win a fight. They may be equals. Maybe Itachi'd lose, Maybe Minato would lose. Although Itachi has some of the most impressive techniques in the manga. It's confusing but Itachi is far more dangerous hands down no hands even lol idk i cant make up my mind DEPENDS IF THEIR ABILITIES WOULD COUNTER THE OTHER REALLY. We haven't really seen the full extent of Minato's abilities. So far we've seen him do some various sealing techniques, FLYING RAIJIN, and RASENGAN their ass. It's because he has such an advantage over his enemies with only rasengan and Flying Thunder God. Well Itachi's not a normal enemy.... so we'll just have to come up with ideas on how the fight would go. rpg or something. 😕 😮
please forgive me senpai this is my first reply on this forum this topic was the only reason why i signed up in the first place.
Exactly. Minato's much stronger than Itachi, but Itachi's abilities are so much more dangerous, that he would win in a fight.
The only one who's dodged Amaterasu is Raikage, and Minato had to use Hiraishin just to COMPARE to his speed. Minato without Hiraishin gets tagged indefinitely all day long by Ammy.
Anyway, Minato has the whole Hiraishin thing, but he can't beat Itachi's genjutsu, and avoid Amaterasu. That's really the combo that makes Itachi so phucking deadly, and unstoppable to non-uchiha characters.
Re: Re: doubts
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Exactly. Minato's much stronger than Itachi, but Itachi's abilities are so much more dangerous, that he would win in a fight.The only one who's dodged Amaterasu is Raikage, and Minato had to use Hiraishin just to COMPARE to his speed. Minato without Hiraishin gets tagged indefinitely all day long by Ammy.
Anyway, Minato has the whole Hiraishin thing, but he can't beat Itachi's genjutsu, and avoid Amaterasu. That's really the combo that makes Itachi so phucking deadly, and unstoppable to non-uchiha characters.
I think Minato was on par with 'Tobi's' speed. When they fought in Konoha they were both fast. I don't know how fast he ACTUALLY is but it said that Minato was already fast even WITHOUT the Flying Raijin. We don't exactly know how fast he is without it. Maybe we'll never even know if he's faster than Itachi. Oh and Itachi without illness? Probably faster than usual. I don't think I'm getting anywhere, I'm still in the pain arc but damn i've seen minato fight and itachi's abilities.
But seriously, we haven't seen the full extent of what Minato can do (if this was one on one combat), Itachi could've fought better without his illness, remember? His reactions AND SPEED were slower than usual.
The reason why I'm still comparing speed because if you have a technique that counters the others' speed you're already a winner.
Though Minato's reactions are probably bullet or lightning reaction. If he's fast enough to TELEPORT to another place before getting hit by A than he might get a chance to dodge one of Itachi's attacks. But if he gets burned by Amaterasu he's dead dead dead. If the flames burn his clothes then get ready for a strip tease 💃
I don't think Amaterasu's dodgeable unless it's actually launched.
I think we wont know who'll really win this fight until Kishi makes it. This fight would only be unpredictable especially for us fans. But then again, like what I said earlier, RPG's good. You'll just have to think of their abilities and use their skills to their fullest.
But apparently, Itachi's amaterasu could easily beat Minato. Minato literally has no way of dodging it unless he has some sort of seal that could remove it from him.
I noticed Naruto inherited from his father to constantly use 2 techniques in battle. If you don't consider the techniques derived by the rasengan.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Strategy(Long Term/Battlefield):Minato's battle style requires him to be strategic and plan ahead. Itachi's does not. And in the Long Term the results speak for themselves with Naruto saving the world and Sasuke almost becoming a horrid creature that would kill thousands were it not for Hashirama.
Battle Power(Defensive/Attack/Jutsu)
Itachi wins defense. He also has more attacks than Minato but admittedly a Kyuubi Powered Rasengan is stronger than anything in Itachi's moveset in terms of sheer damage. Overall it goes to Itachi since in addition to powerful ninjutsu he is to date still most likely the strongest genjutsu in the manga rivaled only by the 2nd Mizukage.
Vs one another
Don't care~
Overall Effectiveness
Minato ensured Naruto would have tons of aid in getting the Kyuubi's power which in turn saved the world multiple times by now. His biggest fault is failing to stop Obito with frankly is a fault that Itachi shares since given how Izanami works I have no idea why Itachi left him to his own devices.Instead Itachi messed up with Sasuke and acknowledges this. It was only through sheer luck that he managed to fix some of his mistakes and take out the Edo Tensei but by that point the majority of the ninja had been defeated. Minato meanwhile saved the army twice. 👆
A+
Think of it this way, between Itachi and Minato, who would have been the one to be more overall capable of stopping Edo Tensei? Killing the weilder isn't an option, that's where Minato just because limited. Itachi's powers however, are not. His genjutsu is so powerful that being in his presence lets him put adept sharingan users like Sasuke under multiple layers of Genjutsu, which can be followed with a Tsukuyomi.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Think of it this way, between Itachi and Minato, who would have been the one to be more overall capable of stopping Edo Tensei? Killing the weilder isn't an option, that's where Minato just because limited. Itachi's powers however, are not. His genjutsu is so powerful that being in his presence lets him put adept sharingan users like Sasuke under multiple layers of Genjutsu, which can be followed with a Tsukuyomi.