The pool room brawl

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Couple flaws with that reasoning.

1) In character, the pre52 DC characters are more restrained than their current counterparts. They're slow starters who are relatively permissive in what they "allow" their opponents to do, even in serious fights.

2) Taking this as the 2010 incarnation of all these characters (which is what pre52 dates to) means that we're also taking the 2010 version of Hulk. HotM Hulk.
A Hulk that was actually above the level Greg Pak showed us in his original World War Hulk series, wherein Hulk effectively took on every major superhero in New York, including the members of the Fantastic Four, Juggernaut, and the Sentry.

3) Aquaman pre52 was a bearded man with a hook for one of his hands.
The one shown in the pool hall picture is nothing like that; he's the spitting image of today's Aquaman. Batman in the pool hall picture likewise looks more like that current Batman than the preFlashpoint one, but I won't insist on that.

Nah, no flaws.

1)Yes for some, but then, you gave everyone information on the opposing teams. So they know that the madder Hulk gets etc etc, Spider senses, and that Thor is a bona fide God of Thunder yadda yadda. No need to pull punches. Most of the time, they pussyfoot because they do not know what they are dealing with. The number of times Superman is happy because he doesn't need to hold back....

2)HoTM was released in 2011. Not 2010. Also, pre52 also dates to 2009/2008/2007 etc.

3)No, he wasn't always. Aquaman also looked like this:

The main difference of the nu52 is of course, Jim Lee's addition of collars. Google 'Jim Lee collars' if you want. You will then note none of the DC characters here have collars. Not to mention that Superman does not have the 'armoured look' of the nu52, and most tellingly, has red undies on the outside.

Note also how MM's costume differs significantly from nu52.

Wonder Woman is wearing a bustiere, why in **** does she have a collar as well

reminds me sorta of grrl power

This would be a great thread to use one of those random results generator programs.

Like that one someone designed that gave you three random superpowers and asked how you'd fare against a gauntlet of 7?

First things first, though: Going around the room we've got (left to right)

Spider-Woman Jessica ???/ or Black Widow.
Honestly not sure which. Both are/were part of the avengers.
Both red heads. Both spy types. Both social drinkers.
Both have/had a relationship with Tony, if memory serves.
Going with Jessica, not because of her spider power, but because she has the
inexplicable ability to resist mental assault, hypnosis, sleep commands, and the like.
(She actually did so against Professor Xavier in some recent storyline a year or so ago).

Iron Man (Tony Stark)
Hulk (Bruce Banner)
Thor (Jake Olson)
Rogue (Marie Hollander)
Spider-Man (Peter Parker)
Wolverine (James Howlett)
Captain America (Steve Rogers)
Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onnz)
Powerwoman (Karen Starr)
Superman (Clark Kent)
Flash (Barry Allen)
Aquaman (Arthur Curry)
Batman (Bruce Wayne)
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
Wonder Woman (Diana Prince)

Alas, that's widow. She has the gauntlets and belt of Natascha, plus Jessica has black hair.

Wolverine solos.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Alas, that's widow.
She has the gauntlets and belt of Natasha,
plus Jessica has black hair.

😕

http://www.comicvine.com/julia-carpenter/4005-16197/

On the other hand, there are actually two Jessicas.

I don't know which one has the ability to resist telepathic suggestions and the like.

With my luck it's probably Jessica Drew, not red-headed Jessica Carpenter, that does this.
Given the fact her webbing is pure mental energy, mental resistance would be a more natural fit with Carpenter.
Then again, comic writers don't necessarily go with what actually makes the most sense ...

Ahk ...

What is wrong with me tonight?

3 AM usually doesn't see me making this kind of mistake.

I meant to say, of course, there are 2 SpiderWomen that are/were part of the Avengers team.

Natasha and the red-headed Spider-Woman are both red heads.
Red-headed Spider-Woman's name is Julia Carpenter and she has mental webbing.

I don't know which one was resisting Xavier's sleep command, which pretty much dropped all OTHER combatants in the area during whatever issue that was taking place in.

Yes but the costume is pure black widow. Look at her wrists, and that belt.

It was Jessica who resisted.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes but the costume is pure black widow.
Look at her wrists, and that belt.

It was Jessica who resisted.

The costume wouldn't help; with the exception of the 2012 movie, I've only seen Black Widow in a handful of stories, and each time she wore something different.

You're right about the 2nd part, though.

I found what I was looking for.

I no longer remember what story this was taken from, but Professor X himself calls Spider-Woman "Jessica Drew".

http://oi57.tinypic.com/5ahyzo.jpg

In the movie, she had gauntlets. Also, the belt. Certainly not a giant white spider like Carpenter.

Hell, just compare her to the Julie Carpenter picture YOU YOURSELF posted. I know you're trying so hard to have a TP resistant person on your team, but no, just give it up. If you're still unsure, look online.

Basic research is your friend. Its like you don't even read comics....

Edit: and it shows, when you don't know what storyline that scan you posted is from....

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Couple flaws with that reasoning.

1) In character, the pre52 DC characters are more restrained than their current counterparts. They're slow starters who are relatively permissive in what they "allow" their opponents to do, even in serious fights.

2) Taking this as the 2010 incarnation of all these characters (which is what pre52 dates to) means that we're also taking the 2010 version of Hulk. HotM Hulk.
A Hulk that was actually above the level Greg Pak showed us in his original World War Hulk series, wherein Hulk effectively took on every major superhero in New York, including the members of the Fantastic Four, Juggernaut, and the Sentry.

3) Aquaman pre52 was a bearded man with a hook for one of his hands.
The one shown in the pool hall picture is nothing like that; he's the spitting image of today's Aquaman. Batman in the pool hall picture likewise looks more like that current Batman than the preFlashpoint one, but I won't insist on that.

1.soo you mean to tell me that they would restrain their a**es to defeat?

2.???

3. pretty sure that theres a clean shaved AQ b4 52

Originally posted by 8swords
1.soo you mean to tell me that they would restrain their a**es to defeat?

2.???

3. pretty sure that theres a clean shaved AQ b4 52

1. bluewaterrider also gave everyone on the Marvel team information on the DC team (to the extent Thor was sending them to a light gravity, red sun planet), but for some reason, the DC team, despite knowing how powerful Thor/Hulk are, will still restrain themselves...

2. Yeah.....he messed up there.

3. He also messed up here.

Although, many had thought that the Infinity Gems had been previously destroyed. Surprisingly enough, they in actuality had not been destroyed and and were in the safe keepings of Tony Stark; who had been keeping them all on his persons at all times to best ensure their well being. When DC starts to get a little uppity in the pool hall Tony decides to have some fun with situation. He calls everybody into a huddle and let's them in on his plan. Tony gives Wolverine the Power Gem, Spiderman gets the Reality Gem, Cap gets the Soul Gem, Black Widow gets the Time Gem, Rogue gets the Space gem and Tony keeps the Mind Gem for himself.

Power Gem – Increased strength and durability, enhances virtually any known superhuman ability, energy manipulation.
Time Gem – Time travel; stop, slow down or speed up flow of time; accelerate or slow down aging; see into past/future.
Space Gem – Travel through space, mostly through teleportation. Able to interfere with the motion of other objects.
Soul Gem – Observe, attack or even steal a being's soul or spirit. Also used to revert individuals to their natural state.
Reality Gem – Alters all of reality; similar to the effects of a Cosmic Cube, but much, much higher.
Mind Gem – Near-limitless psionic/psychic abilities including empathy, telepathy and telekinesis.

Let the fun begin...

Originally posted by 8swords

you mean to tell me that they would restrain ... to defeat?

Oh, not just me.

Try arguing with a DC fan about the true power levels of their favorite character and watch how many "handicaps" you discover the DC characters are operating under.

Yet the fact remains:

In character, most of the people in this pool room, Marvel characters included, DO act with restraint,
at least compared to what their powerset actually allows them to do at full forum poster "chesspiece" potential.

And the pre-Flashpoint versions of the DC characters are, in general, more restrained than the current versions of the DC characters.

Originally posted by 8swords

2.???

2011 featured the Heart of the Monster (Hotm) storyline, not 2010, just as Dark said.

Yes. I messed up the date.

Makes little difference as far as this thread is concerned.
Only relevant consideration is the power level of the Hulk chosen for this brawl.

Hulk on the following level:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsRulk28.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsRulk29.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsRulk30.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsRulk31.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsRulk32.jpg

can reasonably be expected to hold his own against any 2 or 3 characters in the scenario we're given here, pre52 or otherwise,
and likewise has a good chance of knocking any given DC character out.

Originally posted by 8swords

3. pretty sure that there's a clean shaved AQ b4 52

Pretty sure there's one after 52 as well, the current one, and, quite unlike the one shown by DarkSaint,
though nearly exactly like the one shown in our pool hall poster, he doesn't have a water hand.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Although, many had thought that the Infinity Gems had been previously destroyed. Surprisingly enough, they in actuality had not been destroyed and and were in the safe keepings of Tony Stark; who had been keeping them all on his persons at all times to best ensure their well being. When DC starts to get a little uppity in the pool hall Tony decides to have some fun with situation. He calls everybody into a huddle and let's them in on his plan. Tony gives Wolverine the Power Gem, Spiderman gets the Reality Gem, Cap gets the Soul Gem, Black Widow gets the Time Gem, Rogue gets the Space gem and Tony keeps the Mind Gem for himself.

Power Gem – Increased strength and durability, enhances virtually any known superhuman ability, energy manipulation.
Time Gem – Time travel; stop, slow down or speed up flow of time; accelerate or slow down aging; see into past/future.
Space Gem – Travel through space, mostly through teleportation. Able to interfere with the motion of other objects.
Soul Gem – Observe, attack or even steal a being's soul or spirit. Also used to revert individuals to their natural state.
Reality Gem – Alters all of reality; similar to the effects of a Cosmic Cube, but much, much higher.
Mind Gem – Near-limitless psionic/psychic abilities including empathy, telepathy and telekinesis.

Let the fun begin...

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Oh, not just me.

Try arguing with a DC fan about the true power levels of their favorite character and watch how many "handicaps" you discover the DC characters are operating under.

Yet the fact remains:

In character, most of the people in this pool room, Marvel characters included, DO act with restraint,
at least compared to what their powerset actually allows them to do at full forum poster "chesspiece" potential.

And the pre-Flashpoint versions of the DC characters are, in general, more restrained than the current versions of the DC characters.

2011 featured the Heart of the Monster (Hotm) storyline, not 2010, just as Dark said.

Yes. I messed up the date.

Makes little difference as far as this thread is concerned.
Only relevant consideration is the power level of the Hulk chosen for this brawl.

Hulk on the following level:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsRulk28.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsRulk29.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsRulk30.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsRulk31.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsRulk32.jpg

can reasonably be expected to hold his own against any 2 or 3 characters in the scenario we're given here, pre52 or otherwise,
and likewise has a good chance of knocking any given DC character out.

Assuming, of course, we were given certain power levels of DC characters which ensured a Marvel victory.....

Pretty sure there's one after 52 as well, the current one, and, quite unlike the one shown by DarkSaint,
though nearly exactly like the one shown in our pool hall poster, he [b]doesn't have a water hand. [/B]

He's wearing a glove in the picture....which water hand Aquaman wore as well....

Not to mention, lack of a collar. And Superman/WW/Martian Manhunter all have pre-52 costumes.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

bluewaterrider ... gave everyone on the Marvel team information on the DC team (to the extent Thor was sending them to a light gravity, red sun planet),
but for some reason, the DC team, despite knowing how powerful Thor/Hulk are, will still restrain themselves...

Actually, Bluewaterrider just chose a random possibility based on what Thor seems to like doing nowadays which, NOT coincidentally, benefits team Marvel.

That was more of a fun challenge to you than anything else, since the rule of good fighting manners
dictates restraint for anybody not named Wolverine from all these heroes
(Hulk would only be unrestrained if we went with an unintelligent version not fully
aware of the damage he can do to combatants like Widow or Batman by accident) anyway.

Yes, if Thor HAS information on Superman and PowerWoman and the Flash there is wisdom in the choice,
given there are still heavy DC hitters for Thors team to contend with afterwards,
but that was really just
"Let's pick this possible action given the surprisingly wide variety of strategies Thor has been displaying in fights in recent months and go from there", on my part.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Actually, Bluewaterrider just chose a random possibility based on what Thor seems to like doing nowadays which, NOT coincidentally, benefits team Marvel.

That was more of a fun challenge to you than anything else, since the rule of good fighting manners
dictates restraint for anybody not named Wolverine from all these heroes
(Hulk would only be unrestrained if we went with an unintelligent version not fully
aware of the damage he can do to combatants like Widow or Batman by accident) anyway.

Yes, if Thor HAS information on Superman and PowerWoman and the Flash there is wisdom in the choice,
given there are still heavy DC hitters for Thors team to contend with afterwards,
but that was really just
"Let's pick this possible action given the surprisingly wide variety of strategies Thor has been displaying in fights in recent months and go from there", on my part.

Problem with that is, Superman pre-FP...well, there is also a wide variety of strategies he could use to singlehandedly win. Not to mention Flash would achieve a victory as well, based on how Barry behaved pre-FP.

Are you still mistakenly assuming that there's a Spiderwoman in the picture? And that it's nu52 characters?

The last Aquaman to wear that variant of the costume was, I believe, the water-hand version.