Rockydonovang
freedom fighter
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
@Rocky1. Stepping back before Sidious has even done anything means squat.
[b]Based on what were they on guard?
2A. The fact that they're facing an armed and dangerous Sith Lord they've come to arrest...
Vapaad kicks in after fisto dies
2B. Evidence?
Uh, no, because the quote says Mace wasn't able to realize what was happening until after fisto was cut down which obviously isn't true since we see Mace reacting to Sids attack(stepping back) even before he strikes down his first target.
3. As I said, Mace moving before Sidious has even done anything in know shows he's able to react to Sidious's actions. And you're aware that people can react to things without conscious thought, especially Lightside Force user's who sink into the Force and allow it to guide their actions.
A. Mace is factually bordering on Sids level as a fighter.
Mace at baseline is around the level of somebody who Sidious ragdolled. And as Gillard's stated the difference within the tiers themselves get larger and larger as they go up.
Lucas has directly stated Mace can compete with the emperor in general in a statement which isn't restricted to this specific fight.
Quote.
Bringing up Vapaad or Sids throwing the fight only addresses why Mace can match/seemingly defeat sidious, it doesn't by a longshot suggest Sids is beyond Mace's ability to compete.
No, but his inability to react according to several sources and his parity to people Sidious have ragdolled do.
Additionally that Mace was unable to protect his friends is moot point.
That's not even the main point. It's the fact that he didn't even raise his blade until after they were cut down.
As we see in a movie, Mace's positioning(he was behind his friends)
Wtf are you talking about...
Furthermore Sidious's ability to blitz people not named Mace hardly prove shis ability to blitz Mace who was able to successfully defend himself vs Sidious's attacks as you would expect of someone who can factually compete with sidious.
That's the point you ding dong. Sidious could've blitzed him at any point before he was amped by Vaapad. He kept him alive so he could turn Anakin. [/B]
1. What? Sidious had already launched his attack. Mace reacted to Sids invalidating your assertion that Mace couldn't react to Sids
2. Right, but as Sids asked Tiin to use telepathy they weren't expecting sids to attack at that moment which is why they were caught off guard.
3. Mace starts "sinking into Vapaad" after "the green light faded and winked out".
Additionally, by the time Mace sinks into Vapaad, they've already been fighting for a period of time 1 v 1 as evinced by their fight moving to another room before hand:
Anakin's own blade sang blue as it slashed through the window and he dived through the gap. He rolled to his feet among a litter of bodies and sprinted through a shattered door along the small private corridor and through a doorway that flashed and flared with energy scatter"
4. So then Mace doesn't need to be able to perceive sids to react to and compete with him? Noted. Rewatch the clip, Sids is mid-attack when Mace steps back, he can react to him.
5. That doesn't apply to tier 9. Gillard has stated that once you get to tier 9, the environment and fighting styles decide fights rather than skill. Tier 9's are all on the same level. That Mace is bordering on that tier even without vapaad(with which he becomes a 9) renders your argument that he can't even react to him a little asinine.
6.
"You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor," Lucas says. "If Anakin hadn't got all beat up, he could've beat the Emperor."
Lets note that there's no context here specifying that compete is limited to a sabers only engagement which means at a minimum, regardless of sid's force powers, mace can compete with him which, at a minimum, revalidates the notion of sidious being able to one-shot him with the force(aka force choke) which renders the idea of revan taking a force based victory rather questionable(And yes, I think sids could one-shot the fck out of revan).
7. His inability to react is a falsehood.
8. I assume you mean Dooku?
A. Mace isn't tied to being equal to dooku, in fact, that mace as of rots is an eight bordering nine while Diooku's only an 8 suggests windu is superior.
B. Dooku wasn't defending himself and had his defenes down in TCW, where passive defenses are rather non existent when It comes to force attacks(see Ahsoka blasting Ventress). That's not a valid ragdoll.
The point's moot.
9. Right because Sidious launched a surprise attack. In the movie, where there was no surprise attack mentioned, Mace is able to step back and then defends all of Sidious's attack.
10. Mace steps back when sidious initially attacks, at that point he can't defend any of his friends