Originally posted by deathslash
You're joking right? How the hell does he make a statement about Malak being a better duelist and think that it makes sense? Revan destroyed Malak in a one on one duel, held his own against Malak in another duel, and then killed Malak in their third duel against each other (when Malak was greatly amped and revan was still at least partially amnesiac). Also, I would think that you would know better than to use ABC logic.
Originally posted by deathslash
What the hell is wrong with you? I never made any mention of Revan being among the very top of all time but he most certainly is capable of dueling Windu and putting up a very good fight. To say that Windu is far and away better than revan in dueling is only going to make you seem ignorant.
The capability of dueling Windu and giving him a 'very good fight' is in and of itself an implication of top tier dueling skill.
Originally posted by deathslash
So him beating Juhani when he was only a padawan isn't impressive? Him slaughtering two Terenteraks at the same time and then only minutes later proceeding to defeat Uthar Wynn and Yuthura Ban isn't impressive? I mean, it's totally not like him slaughtering all of the dark acolytes, sith apprentices, elite sith troopers, and war droids and then proceeding to defeat a twice amped malak is in Windu's level of dueling ability right? Him defeating Calo Nord twice totally isn't impressive. Fighting his way through dozens of sith war droids and troopers on the crumbling Endar Spire isn't a good display of skill. Him defeating Satele Shan isn't impressive? Defeating Mandalor the Ultimate isn't a good feat? I literally spent half a minute looking up revan's dueling feats and I've already come up with this.
The only one of those victories that directly implicates strong dueling ability is two terentateks and whilst impressive those things are hardly unbeatable as many make them out to be. Windu is more than capable of performing the samething. Mace Windu decapitated the greatest shot in the galaxy Jango Fett. Satele Shan, Malak, Mandalore and Juhani can all be won via Force power not raw lightsaber skill.
Mace Windu again is a very strong contender for the top 5 duelists ever, Revan has nothing implying he even makes top 10.
Originally posted by AncientPowerHow does he make a statement like that in the face of Revan beating him in an outright duel and cutting off his jaw?
Drew alluded to the fact that the Force was more Revan's priority and not lightsaber ability which is why he states Malak is probably the better duelist.
Originally posted by AncientPowerQui Gon Jinn and Darth Maul both have been said to/ have put up a good fight against Windu. I'd say that Revan can do as well as either of them could.
The capability of dueling Windu and giving him a 'very good fight' is in and of itself an implication of top tier dueling skill.
Originally posted by AncientPowerYeah, it's totally not like there's context behind Mace's win over Jango.🙄 The guy got trampled by a Reek, his jetpack was broken, and one of his guns had been knocked away. He likely also had a few broken bones and at the very least was probably dazed from getting hit by the Star Wars equivalent of a rhino. Meanwhile, Revan beat Calo Nord and an entire gang of mercenaries at the same time.
Mace Windu decapitated the greatest shot in the galaxy Jango Fett.
Originally posted by AncientPowerPretty certain that I remember seeing a cut scene of revan dueling Satele. Ok, since Gnost Dural shows information of Revan's duel with Mandalore and it involves Revan charging the Ultimate with his lightsaber ignited, I think that Revan beat him using dueling abilities.Which one seems more likely, that Revan killed Malak and Mandalore the Ultimate using force pushes and tk or that he killed both of them using a lightsaber. Go ahead and take your time to figure out the correct answer to that. Please stop acting as if game mechanics are the only things that matter. What matters are the end results and the end result is that Revan beat one of the best duelists of that era in a one on one fight and since Malak probably wasn't dumb or inexperienced enough (seriously, he was a master of force drain, stasis, and telekenesis) to let a "neophyte padawan" kill him with tk, I'll go ahead and say that he beat him in a duel. I'm also not sure how you think that Revan fighting through countless sith on a darkside nexis for over and hour and then defeating the twice amped lord of the sith in a duel isn't impressive.
Satele Shan, Malak, Mandalore and Juhani can all be won via Force power not raw lightsaber skill.
Originally posted by deathslash
[How does he make a statement like that in the face of Revan beating him in an outright duel and cutting off his jaw?
Originally posted by deathslash Qui Gon Jinn and Darth Maul both have been said to/ have put up a good fight against Windu. I'd say that Revan can do as well as either of them could.
Qui Gon Jinn has never been stated to do so in canon, what you are quoting is an incorrect Wookieepedia statement which has since been researched and debunked. Darth Maul is himself one of the greatest and most highly skilled Sith Warriors ever, a greater duelist than Revan by feats, so briefly holding Windu off is not exactly a surprising feat.
Originally posted by deathslash Yeah, it's totally not like there's context behind Mace's win over Jango.🙄 The guy got trampled by a Reek, his jetpack was broken, and one of his guns had been knocked away. He likely also had a few broken bones and at the very least was probably dazed from getting hit by the Star Wars equivalent of a rhino. Meanwhile, Revan beat Calo Nord and an entire gang of mercenaries at the same time. Pretty certain that I remember seeing a cut scene of revan dueling Satele. Ok, since Gnost Dural shows information of Revan's duel with Mandalore and it involves Revan charging the Ultimate with his lightsaber ignited, I think that Revan beat him using dueling abilities.Which one seems more likely, that Revan killed Malak and Mandalore the Ultimate using force pushes and tk or that he killed both of them using a lightsaber. Go ahead and take your time to figure out the correct answer to that. Please stop acting as if game mechanics are the only things that matter. What matters are the end results and the end result is that Revan beat one of the best duelists of that era in a one on one fight and since Malak probably wasn't dumb or inexperienced enough (seriously, he was a master of force drain, stasis, and telekenesis) to let a "neophyte padawan" kill him with tk, I'll go ahead and say that he beat him in a duel. I'm also not sure how you think that Revan fighting through countless sith on a darkside nexis for over and hour and then defeating the twice amped lord of the sith in a duel isn't impressive.
Both the Attack of the Clones novelisation and Star Wars Shatterpoint state that Windu would have won undoubtedly against Jango regardless of circumstance.
That is from the trailer for Shadow of Revan, the actual in-game cutscenes of the battle depict him attacking with the Force every time. Even the opening depicts him unleashing a Force wave on the unified strike team.
The timeline also depicts Bastila Shan attacking Malak alongside Revan, which is contradictory to the game, in which she uses Battle Meditation to aid the Republic fleet whilst Revan defeats Darth Malak. There are a large number of other discrepancies in the timeline series. What I find likely is irrelevant the important thing is that Drew Karpyshyn, A chief authority on Revan, has stated that Revan uses the Force primarily in combat. This insinuates that his victories in combat are won via his extreme Force prowess.
The above is consistent with his canonical depictions in combat, against Nyriss he uses Tutaminis to rather impressively destroy her with her own dark side energy attack. Against the Sith Emperor he uses the Force to attack and defend. Against the Imperial Guard beforehand he is depicted attempting to use a Force Push to quickly dispatch the lone Guard between himself and the Emperor. When the Emperor's amplification of his Guardsmen causes Revan's attack to fail then he switches to his lightsaber. In every canonical depiction of his fights he wields the Force primarily.
Mace Windu is his polar opposite, he perfected lightsaber combat and in-fact honed himself into_A_living weapon through which the Light Side of the Force can deal justice. He completed Form VII Juyo and created Vaapad to answer hisweakness which is emotion, allowing his inner darkness to be harnessed for good. Everything about Windu revolves around his exemplary capabilities in combat, exemplified by his status as Jedi Weapons Master.
Revan does outstrip Mace in command of the Force by a considerable margin but that margin is not as wide as the margin between Revan and Windu's abilities with the blade.
Originally posted by AncientPowerSee, now this is where we have a problem. Those are the feats of an entirely different Revan. Those are Revan Redeamed feats, not Mandolorian Wars or Jedi Civil War Revan. If I recall correctly, In both of those wars, Revan was depicted as a cunning tactitian that eclipsed Malak's skill with a saber and was by far Malak's superior with the force. Also, Revan has canonical been depicted using a blue crystal (the crystal color of the Jedi Guardian) during the Jedi Civil War. I also noticed that two of the three force using feats that you brought up were used more out of necessity than preference. With Nyriss, rather than use his lightsaber and ty to slowly inch forward against the hail of her lightning (lightning that put down the exile and scourge at the same time), he elected to end the battle quickly with tutamanis. Against the emperor, what was he supposed to do? Revan used the force out of necessity because he needed to defend against Vitiates's lightning. The book also outright stated that Revan was tying to get close enough to use his lightsaber. In that very same book, when Revan killed the Mandalorians that were trying to kill him and Canderous, he used his lightsaber rather than the force.
The above is consistent with his canonical depictions in combat, against Nyriss he uses Tutaminis to rather impressively destroy her with her own dark side energy attack. Against the Sith Emperor he uses the Force to attack and defend. Against the Imperial Guard beforehand he is depicted attempting to use a Force Push to quickly dispatch the lone Guard between himself and the Emperor. When the Emperor's amplification of his Guardsmen causes Revan's attack to fail [b]then he switches to his lightsaber. In every canonical depiction of his fights he wields the Force primarily.[/B]
Originally posted by AncientPowerEh, we both see this fight going down differently. I believe that Revan can edge out the majority because of his skill with a lightsaber (seriously, he's depicted as using Jar Kai, Ataru, Soresu, and it's been stated that he can use Niman), his ability to predict the future, and the heavy advantage that he has with the force.
Revan does outstrip Mace in command of the Force by a considerable margin but that margin is not as wide as the margin between Revan and Windu's abilities with the blade.
Revan show mass scale TK with Alter envirnoment, he proove that force storm is not just an upper version of lightning, against the Rakattas he use alter environement while controlling wind fire earth and lightning from the sky. Not only the last feat is impressive, but he shwo that Revan is able to make perform sub-molecular transformation on mass scale, at 10km above his head.
+Revan is like Bane with more combat experience in browling or dueling...
Able to apply the technic at the perfection, and have ore knowledge than Master Yoda himself..
Even in lmight saber Revan copete with Mace..... in term of speed, preco,
+windu is as powerfull as his adversing rage, Revan have perfect control over his surface though and emotion, and is able to use them in combat against force user, and possess more force power.....
Sidious could have blitz Mace he wanted.....