Originally posted by psycho gundamCarver hates Hulk as much as the rest of us. He is the blatant spy in the room.
I just wish carver was actually good at arguing for hulk. it would mean so very much. you have so many people you can slaughter in this thread and you just cannot lop their heads off and it's not right
With that said... are people arguing for Orion's speed in a way that would make him be hard to hit? Orion's basically Hulk with some fighting skills and pew pews.
Originally posted by Reflassshh
You're just ignoring all logic and exaggerating all that hulk have done during that run. And with all the wendigo thing you're trying to say that WWH is Savage hulk x1000 without going World breaker? lolSentry was on his Sentry/bob persona, and didn't use his speed in their fight, just brawled with hulk like everybody in the whole event.
Nope, you have some proof of the sentry that fought WWH being more powerful than orion?
The power of a million exploding when battling hulk? you're serious?
H/P doomsday and firestorm would destroy WWH as well.
You said nothing but disagree with the writer. Opinions have to be passed on, in the presence of hard proof.
Originally posted by Reflassshh
Hulk wasn't blitzing during WWH lol, scans? honestly i didn't read the GR tie-in.
You're so dishonest that you even attempt to separate the character by stating that because WW Hulk didn't show any movement speed feats that he can't be as fast as he currently is. Your entire argument is filled of holes and contradictions. I wonder how filthy it must feel when you have to lie in order to attempt to play people like dummies. Nice try though. Before you answer, please recall that Bob blitzed the Hulk, and was chin checked in the attempt.
Originally posted by Reflassshh
Wrong hulk incarnation buddy.
See how you've played right into my point? how do people filthy themselves up over a fictional account? Just tap out.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Who fought World War Hulk all out from the start?Who fought Banner the way Orion would with the Motherbox at his disposal?
You can use the Sentry fight and all it proves is that Sentry was merciful.
With the myriad of powers at his disposal all he did was brawl with Banner. And it was STILL a draw.
A draw is when both characters are standing there, and are unable to defeat each other. Bob was out cold, Banner was still up. It was also on panel that Banner held back the entire time during WW Hulk, that means that his battle with the Sentry was him maintaining a steady level of anger, but not fully going all out. Once again you're found ignoring context on this topic.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Carver hates Hulk as much as the rest of us. He is the blatant spy in the room.With that said... are people arguing for Orion's speed in a way that would make him be hard to hit? Orion's basically Hulk with some fighting skills and pew pews.
With pretty good versatility.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Carver hates Hulk as much as the rest of us. He is the blatant spy in the room.With that said... are people arguing for Orion's speed in a way that would make him be hard to hit? Orion's basically Hulk with some fighting skills and pew pews.
Simonson wrote some pretty speedy New Gods. Orion could catch bullets and blitze while blind, yet Mr. Miracle was still able to keep ahead of him..
I blame Starlin for the Hulk with fighting skills stereotype. Pre Crisis, he was never a blood thirsty rage addict, but more of a generic warrior who thought with his head as much as he did with his guns, basically. Then Cosmic Oddyssy happens, and Orion merrily slaughters a bunch of Hawkmen just because, and becomes a racist to boot..
Even since then, the Hulk with pew pews and fighting skills is basically what we got any time New Gods guest starred in anything.
But in dedicated series, like Byrnes and Simmonsons, Orion was generally much less blood thirsty, a bit smarter and more tactical.. Simonson especially made him look like a genius, compared to anything else he's been in. (Also for the record, best Darkseid since Kirby himself.)
Originally posted by cdtmSimonson wrote some pretty speedy New Gods. Orion could catch bullets and blitze while blind, yet Mr. Miracle was still able to keep ahead of him..
I blame Starlin for the Hulk with fighting skills stereotype. Pre Crisis, he was never a blood thirsty rage addict, but more of a generic warrior who thought with his head as much as he did with his guns, basically. Then Cosmic Oddyssy happens, and Orion merrily slaughters a bunch of Hawkmen just because, and becomes a racist to boot..
Even since then, the Hulk with pew pews and fighting skills is basically what we got any time New Gods guest starred in anything.
But in dedicated series, like Byrnes and Simmonsons, Orion was generally much less blood thirsty, a bit smarter and more tactical.. Simonson especially made him look like a genius, compared to anything else he's been in. (Also for the record, best Darkseid since Kirby himself.)
Did you ever see the one where Hawkeye shoots an arrow at the Hulk, while the Hulk wasn't looking directly at him, and the Hulk responds and catches the arrow? When will people get it in their heads that most of these guys have super speed? They have the strength to propel themselves far faster than a normal human does, and the Hulk has shown this many times in his history.
Originally posted by Stoic
Did you ever see the one where Hawkeye shoots an arrow at the Hulk, while the Hulk wasn't looking directly at him, and the Hulk responds and catches the arrow? When will people get it in their heads that most of these guys have super speed? They have the strength to propel themselves far faster than a normal human does, and the Hulk has shown this many times in his history.
I wasn't really trying to argue whether Orion could blitz Hulk, but show an example of why some may argue he could.
Bullet catch trumps any arrow based feats, though. It's also by far the best speed feat Orion's got, in my experience, so it's kind of an outlier..
Originally posted by cdtm
I wasn't really trying to argue whether Orion could blitz Hulk, but show an example of why some may argue he could.Bullet catch trumps any arrow based feats, though. It's also by far the best speed feat Orion's got, in my experience, so it's kind of an outlier..
Nailing Sentry on the chin as he bull rushes in is also as impressive or more so than the speed it would take to catch a bullet, based on how fast the Sentry is (he's faster than a speeding bullet BTW not to mention Orion as well). Arrows also hit harder than bullets, so it would depend on the distance that each was fired as well as the caliber of bullet being used. The one in that scan looks to be low enough caliber that it fits into my generalization.
All the same,Orion won't be blitzting the Hulk based on history, so as not to be rude to you, perhaps you should stop entertaining the notion. It's silly, and most arguing the point likely want to believe that the Hulk is slow based on his large size. This is an error in judgment.
Originally posted by cdtm
I wasn't really trying to argue whether Orion could blitz Hulk, but show an example of why some may argue he could.Bullet catch trumps any arrow based feats, though. It's also by far the best speed feat Orion's got, in my experience, so it's kind of an outlier..
Orion has speed blitzed before Simonson's run and Simonson confirmed that when he fought Darkseid, they were fighting at super speeds. He intended it to be DBZ style battle.
I actually chatted with Simonson a bit on Alvaro's years back, where he used to hang out on the New Gods board. He said he never even watched DBZ when people kept telling him it reminded them of it.
But yeah, he did confirm he meant for the battles to be at super speed.
I've read my share of New Gods, but I'm far from, a buff, so don't know of any examples off hand where Orion used super speed that didn't involve interstellar travel.. Mr. Miracle and Lightray, some of The Forever People, and Infinity Man, they used blatant super speed though. Mr. Miracle even fought evenly with Pre Crisis Superman, and beat the crap out of Big Barda in hand to hand, implying all New Gods had high end strength and speed back then...
But if you know of examples, or even better have scans, now's the time to break them out.
Originally posted by cdtm
I wasn't really trying to argue whether Orion could blitz Hulk, but show an example of why some may argue he could.Bullet catch trumps any arrow based feats, though. It's also by far the best speed feat Orion's got, in my experience, so it's kind of an outlier..
Hulk moving through time stop beats that. Or how about Hulk being bfred to another dimension and making it back to his previous destination off pure speed alone.
Carver you don't honestly believe in the things you are saying do you?
We all know that Hulk is faster than a human and thus has superhuman speed.
No one is arguing against that. There are different levels of super speed though.
For example, bullet speed is vastly faster than car speeds (100mph), light speed is astronomically faster than bullet speed, and so forth.
Finally, you are going back and forth with your philosophy of debate. In some threads, when it suits you, you ignore a character's speed. While in others you argue a character's speed (like here) as a basis of what speed they will have in a forum fight despite their overwhelming vast history of showing the opposite.
Originally posted by h1a8
Carver you don't honestly believe in the things you are saying do you?
We all know that Hulk is faster than a human and thus has superhuman speed.
No one is arguing against that. There are different levels of super speed though.
For example, bullet speed is vastly faster than car speeds (100mph), light speed is astronomically faster than bullet speed, and so forth.Finally, you are going back and forth with your philosophy of debate. In some threads, when it suits you, you ignore a character's speed. While in others you argue a character's speed (like here) as a basis of what speed they will have in a forum fight despite their overwhelming vast history of showing the opposite.
When did i say Hulk will win based off speed? What I am saying is "Orion will not win with speed because Orion outdated speed fts isn't anything Hulk has dealt with or has not done on his own".
And Orion isn't light speed. Bullet timing, you might have an argument (looking at his prehistoric bullet timing ft) and he sure as hell isn't faster than Hulk. This fight will be decided on who is physically more powerful and Savage Hulk would beat Orion, WWH isn't needed.
Originally posted by carver9
When did i say Hulk will win based off speed? What I am saying is "Orion will not win with speed because Orion outdated speed fts isn't anything Hulk has dealt with or has not done on his own".And Orion isn't light speed. Bullet timing, you might have an argument (looking at his prehistoric bullet timing ft) and he sure as hell isn't faster than Hulk. This fight will be decided on who is physically more powerful and Savage Hulk would beat Orion, WWH isn't needed.
Orion IS faster than Hulk.
If you have Savage Hulk he gets the same treatment, a beating, only far faster.
Orion is Thor with better tactics and more speed.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklynOrion is faster than the Hulk. Hulk also has speed feats to his resume. This isn't to say ignore the bulk of their history and rely on their limited speed showings as your entire argument. Hulk and Orion will trade blows and this greatly favors the Hulk. Hulk is the strongest top tier hero there is.
Orion IS faster than Hulk.If you have Savage Hulk he gets the same treatment, a beating, only far faster.
Orion is Thor with better tactics and more speed.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Orion IS faster than Hulk.If you have Savage Hulk he gets the same treatment, a beating, only far faster.
Orion is Thor with better tactics and more speed.
Based on?
No he wouldn't. I want you to prove that Hulk doesn't start off as a high Herald strength wise.
Thor would beat Orion as well and why is Orion faster than Thor?
