Hao Asakura(Shaman King) vs 3 Sannins(Naruto)

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Hao used the comet as a blade. Now you're arguing semantics since once again you can't actually prove that Hao didn't do it. Still waiting for you to answer my question.

1. Contained area as in this space:?

Also where did you get 225 ft from? Like I said neither Naruto nor Sasuke took the full force of the collision: they were sent back as seen on the scan you posted. And what power was behind the collision? If you're gong to use numbers its advised that you let people know where you got the numbers from. Would you stop bringing up non-Naruto related examples and focus on the Sannin please.

2. Hao was still able to transmute his element in order to block the attack. That is a feat for lightspeed reaction time. Can you show me any of the Sannin with a comparable feat? I don't think so. Except for the fact that Hao hadn't transmuted SoF prior to the laser being fired so that hand example is in the wrong context.

3. So you're saying you don't know how Black Holes are made even after I gave you a definition for it. Your being dishonest with me and yourself in that regard and its not cool. Also when an explanation to the attacks function matches the explanation for the real thing it still counts as a Black Hole

Also Yoh's words exactly " If this were real life, though, such an incredible power would have disintegrated the Earth. I'm sure" In reference to the supernova the group survived. Prove otherwise.

4. I don't see anything yet. Go ahead I'll wait.

5. Tell me where the 6 trees number came from and I'll answer your question. Along with that show me Jiraiya destroying a mountain: an actual mountain non of that mountain range stuff, I want visible evidence of something he destroying being equal to a mountain.

6. So I'm right then. Progress.

7. Circumstance, and that only applies after you tanked something not before. Meaning that if your were okay before the attack and are not okay afterwards then you didn't casually tank the attack in question. Which reminds me Tsunade wasn't exhausted at all prior to the attack.

So you are capable of finding scans. Good job, now tell me how that relates to Tsunade being bisected. Also Tsunade has been hurt by less... Kabuto for instance.

Where did you get that number from? And what mountain, what frame of reference are you scaling the fireball from? I've already shown you that the frogs themselves aren't bigger than mountains. Here I'll use the anime version since its secondary canon and matches up to the primary.
YouTube video

Edit: Skip to 58:04 for the fireball

When the grenade has a comparable real world value and its functionality is stated in the scan, then yes it is. Meanwhile the Jiraiya feat not only hasn't destroyed anything, but it isn't even as big as a mountain.

Still not going to show me the scan. I'd shut up if you would post something but since you can't back up your own claim then why should I believe you

I already did. The fact that it was just "comet" and not "comet blade" is proof enough. Your "Nope, I won't accept it" argument is getting you nowhere, and in fact proving how dumb you are.

1. Uh, the grenade didn't expand to the volume of the container, so again, it wasn't contained, only surrounded. It still expanded as much as it could. I got 225 ft. from pixel scaling, assuming Sasuke and Naruto were 5 feet tall. From there, you can use a ruler to see how far the explosions force traveled. I did say where I got the force from. The same place you did, which for my calc was honestly low-balling. Rasengan and Chidori have both casually vaporized and burst through steel, which normal grenades can't do. Either way, my calc is just as accurate as yours, and since the explosions are the same amount stronger than grenades, the joules released is the same too. How was that a non-naruto example?

2. So I'm light speed too? I guess everyone is light speed. Sweet! Again, you've just proven yourself wrong, so I win. Idiot.

3. Once again, Hao described how black holes formed, and said nothing about his attack. So, once again, you fail.

4.

Right here, idiot. Yoh clearly says NOTHING about Hao's attack, other than the fact that it is not a real supernova, FURTHER ELABORATING WHAT HE SAID EARLIER.

5.

From this scan. There are twelve trees, count 'em, TWELVE trees, and six roughly 30 feet high fire pillars. Show me a scan of a forest with more than twelve trees burning, or, FOR THE LAST TIME, it didn't happen. Oh, and, ya' know, the whole "trans error" thing.

6. No, you're just too stupid to look up a wiki.

7. SHE WAS ALREADY DRAINED. You're LITERALLY suggesting that durability is the same when healthy as on your deathbed. This implication proves you retarded, therefor you have again proven me right.

You neglect the fact that Tsunade was not hurt by Kabuto, she was paralyzed by his jutsu, and that she wasn't even fighting back, to the point where she even let Orochimaru stab her in the chest.

So because the Zhar bomb never destroyed anything, and was used only one a test site, it can't destroy a small country? Same principal with Jiraiya, he didn't shoot anything, but the explosion still dwarfed mountains. If you want, I can give a calc that puts his fireball at multiple megatons, something that Hao would be instantly atomized by.

Look back to the original cannon manga. The fireball was dwarfing mountains. I already proved this.

How have I not posted proof? I already posted this. Jiraiya>>>>>1/3rd Itachi=Early Naruto>Mountain busting, that is proof enough of his attack potency. Accept or disprove it, which I know you can't.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I already did. The fact that it was just "comet" and not "comet blade" is proof enough. Your "Nope, I won't accept it" argument is getting you nowhere, and in fact proving how dumb you are.

1. Uh, the grenade didn't expand to the volume of the container, so again, it wasn't contained, only surrounded. It still expanded as much as it could. I got 225 ft. from pixel scaling, assuming Sasuke and Naruto were 5 feet tall. From there, you can use a ruler to see how far the explosions force traveled. I did say where I got the force from. The same place you did, which for my calc was honestly low-balling. Rasengan and Chidori have both casually vaporized and burst through steel, which normal grenades can't do. Either way, my calc is just as accurate as yours, and since the explosions are the same amount stronger than grenades, the joules released is the same too. How was that a non-naruto example?

2. So I'm light speed too? I guess everyone is light speed. Sweet! Again, you've just proven yourself wrong, so I win. Idiot.

3. Once again, Hao described how black holes formed, and said nothing about his attack. So, once again, you fail.

4.

Right here, idiot. Yoh clearly says NOTHING about Hao's attack, other than the fact that it is not a real supernova, FURTHER ELABORATING WHAT HE SAID EARLIER.

5.

From this scan. There are twelve trees, count 'em, TWELVE trees, and six roughly 30 feet high fire pillars. Show me a scan of a forest with more than twelve trees burning, or, FOR THE LAST TIME, it didn't happen. Oh, and, ya' know, the whole "trans error" thing.

6. No, you're just too stupid to look up a wiki.

7. SHE WAS ALREADY DRAINED. You're LITERALLY suggesting that durability is the same when healthy as on your deathbed. This implication proves you retarded, therefor you have again proven me right.

You neglect the fact that Tsunade was not hurt by Kabuto, she was paralyzed by his jutsu, and that she wasn't even fighting back, to the point where she even let Orochimaru stab her in the chest.

So because the Zhar bomb never destroyed anything, and was used only one a test site, it can't destroy a small country? Same principal with Jiraiya, he didn't shoot anything, but the explosion still dwarfed mountains. If you want, I can give a calc that puts his fireball at multiple megatons, something that Hao would be instantly atomized by.

Look back to the original cannon manga. The fireball was dwarfing mountains. I already proved this.

How have I not posted proof? I already posted this. Jiraiya>>>>>1/3rd Itachi=Early Naruto>Mountain busting, that is proof enough of his attack potency. Accept or disprove it, which I know you can't.

Again your arguing semantics. Hao made a comet, Hao used the comet as a blade, meaning that I could dub the attack as a comet blade.

1. But is does expand and can even affect people outside the ring take a look here:

Also I can call BS on those scans since not only are there no real world comparisons made but I don't have anything to go off of but your word on the pixel scanning, no pictures or references from you, meaning that without a clear origin for the numbers I don't have to believe or take at face value a word you say.

2. If you could turn your hand into a reflective surface before the beam of life hit your hand you would be but you neglected to mention that part.

3. Hao used a star to create a Black Hole. You're arguing semantics because you can't prove that Hao didn't create a black hole: in which your wrong because Hao's attack originates from his former star. Prove that it didn't

4. Yoh didn't say anything about a real supernova in that scan, only Hao's. It stand to reason that he was talking about the supernova Hao made and the potential effect it would have on the Earth.

5. Translation error? According to what exactly? The words "forest" and "engulfed in flames" are right on the page. What reason do I have to disagree? Also even if it were less Hao can still cause things to spontaneously combust so show me something that would lead me to believe that any of the Sannin could resist it.

6. Didn't you once say wikis were stupid and now you want me to read one to prove your point? You couldn't prove your point so its invalid, move on already.

7. Can you give me a reference? You say Tsunade was drained but she didn't use that much chakra until the attack happened. Tsunade was just fine prior to Pein using Shinra Tensei. And yes tanking something while healthy and becoming relatively exhausted means that you didn't tank anything casually. If she did she would've been just the same as she was prior to the attack but she wasn't.

8. Its the exact same area only animated. Where are the mountains? What makes them mountains? Even if the series called them that based on size in comparison the frogs( of whom are smaller than mountains) they would not be comparable to the real thing.

But lets say that it was, then what? The fire ball didn't destroy anything nor is there a means to know how much power it released in contrast to say the "Tsar bomb". At best Jiraiya's fire ball ends up being comparable to Ulquiorra's lance in terms of credibility.

No you didn't. You showed me a scan of Itachi, who isn't a Sannin, and tried to compare that to Naruto being a clone of Itachi: that did not use Susanoo.

I'll spell out exactly what I want: I want a scan of Jiraiya using the Giant Rasengan to destroy something. Can you or can't you do that?

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Again your arguing semantics. Hao made a comet, Hao used the comet as a blade, meaning that I could dub the attack as a comet blade.

1. But is does expand and can even affect people outside the ring take a look here:

Also I can call BS on those scans since not only are there no real world comparisons made but I don't have anything to go off of but your word on the pixel scanning, no pictures or references from you, meaning that without a clear origin for the numbers I don't have to believe or take at face value a word you say.

2. If you could turn your hand into a reflective surface before the beam of life hit your hand you would be but you neglected to mention that part.

3. Hao used a star to create a Black Hole. You're arguing semantics because you can't prove that Hao didn't create a black hole: in which your wrong because Hao's attack originates from his former star. Prove that it didn't

4. Yoh didn't say anything about a real supernova in that scan, only Hao's. It stand to reason that he was talking about the supernova Hao made and the potential effect it would have on the Earth.

5. Translation error? According to what exactly? The words "forest" and "engulfed in flames" are right on the page. What reason do I have to disagree? Also even if it were less Hao can still cause things to spontaneously combust so show me something that would lead me to believe that any of the Sannin could resist it.

6. Didn't you once say wikis were stupid and now you want me to read one to prove your point? You couldn't prove your point so its invalid, move on already.

7. Can you give me a reference? You say Tsunade was drained but she didn't use that much chakra until the attack happened. Tsunade was just fine prior to Pein using Shinra Tensei. And yes tanking something while healthy and becoming relatively exhausted means that you didn't tank anything casually. If she did she would've been just the same as she was prior to the attack but she wasn't.

8. Its the exact same area only animated. Where are the mountains? What makes them mountains? Even if the series called them that based on size in comparison the frogs( of whom are smaller than mountains) they would not be comparable to the real thing.

But lets say that it was, then what? The fire ball didn't destroy anything nor is there a means to know how much power it released in contrast to say the "Tsar bomb". At best Jiraiya's fire ball ends up being comparable to Ulquiorra's lance in terms of credibility.

No you didn't. You showed me a scan of Itachi, who isn't a Sannin, and tried to compare that to Naruto being a clone of Itachi: that did not use Susanoo.

I'll spell out exactly what I want: I want a scan of Jiraiya using the Giant Rasengan to destroy something. Can you or can't you do that?

Ah, good to know that you accept your loss.

1. Again, it's 5 times more powerful than a grenade. I already proved that part 1 Naruto's rasengan is AT LEAST that powerful.

2. Oh, so if I put a mirror on my hand, and THEN turn it on, I'm light speed? Good to know. What YOU'RE neglecting, is the fact that Hao used his ability BEFORE the laser shot. He put his shield up before it fired, because you know, HE KNEW EXACTLY WHEN IT WOULD FIRE AND THAT HE COULDN'T DO SHIT ABOUT IT UNLESS HE PREPARED FOR IT. If not, then prove it. 👆

3. I never said the "black hole" didn't come from the "star". The only proof I need is that his "star" was not even comparable to a sun, and his "black hole" did nothing but absorb peoples souls specifically. You're giving him feats that he doesn't have because of the name of his attack. For the last time, if you say that, then you also say that Tsunade can break heaven with a kick, meaning that she solo's. Not to mention that the attack name HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS POWER. So again, I win. This is my last reply.

4. Then show me where Yoh said that Hao's supernova could destroy Earth. You can't. He said a REAL LIFE supernova would destroy Earth, nothing about Hao OR his attack. For the last time, you are literally GIVING him feats because of his attacks name. You are wrong. I accept your concession.

5. Translation error is when something is incorrect because it was dubbed incorrectly. Since you haven't shown me a forest burning from Hao's attack, I hereby accept that you can't, and that I win. Spontaneous combustion? What will that do to the sannin that I have already shown to be able to tank fire, vaporization, and heat VASTLY above what Hao has shown capable of? Once again, I accept that you lose, and hereby concede.

6. And didn't you say that they were accurate, and use one even just a few posts ago? Again, I hereby accept your concession.

7. Are you retarded? Of course Tsunade used all her chakra. And here's my proof.

The scan CLEARLY states that Tsunade used all of her chakra to strengthen Katsuyu so she could keep the villagers alive. She even used her mitotic regeneration to keep them alive. Hints the month-long coma induced by it afterwords. When Kakashi almost became Hokage.

👆

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tsunade

And I gave you a wiki, because I know how you, for some reason, believe them more than actual scans. 👆

She tanked almighty push WHILE tanking it for everyone in the village as well. Again, she could CASUALLY tank it in a 1 v 1. 👆

You lose, I win.

8. Uh, no it's not, idiot. You're neglecting that there weren't even rocks by the fireball in the anime. However, there were mountains that were LARGER than Gamabunta, but SMALLER than the fireball, again, making the fireball small mountain sized, which is THOUSANDS OF TIME GREATER THAN ANYTHING HAO HAS EVER DEMONSTRATED. So, again, I win, you lose.

What did Hao's fireball destroy? Wood? Jiraiya's casual punch does that. Jiraiya's fireball had an AOE of small mountain size, meaning that converting its size with a explosion force, that puts Jiraiya's fireball at a few megatons, which is capable of small mountain busting or small town busting. You still haven't done anything other than say, "It can't be true, because I don't want it to be", and play the denial card, so again, I accept your concession.

When did I say Itachi was a sannin? When did I say Itachi was a clone of Naruto? Are you retarded? I powerscaled from what Naruto did to a 30% Itachi, and calced that Jiraiya could do vastly more, considering Itachi said him and Kisame at full power with backup would lose to Jiraiya. Again, you have yet to even make an argument, so I'm done wasting my time with you.

I've proven that the sannin have greater durability, greater strength, greater power, greater speed, greater resistance, AND can easily get around Hao's flight. Once again, you have yet to even argue against these facts, so I'm going to ignore your petty hard-headedness, and idiocy, and just know, like everyone else here does, that I. Have. Won.

The sannin shit on Hao. 👆

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Ah, good to know that you accept your loss.

1. Again, it's 5 times more powerful than a grenade. I already proved that part 1 Naruto's rasengan is AT LEAST that powerful.

2. Oh, so if I put a mirror on my hand, and THEN turn it on, I'm light speed? Good to know. What YOU'RE neglecting, is the fact that Hao used his ability BEFORE the laser shot. He put his shield up before it fired, because you know, HE KNEW EXACTLY WHEN IT WOULD FIRE AND THAT HE COULDN'T DO SHIT ABOUT IT UNLESS HE PREPARED FOR IT. If not, then prove it. 👆

3. I never said the "black hole" didn't come from the "star". The only proof I need is that his "star" was not even comparable to a sun, and his "black hole" did nothing but absorb peoples souls specifically. You're giving him feats that he doesn't have because of the name of his attack. For the last time, if you say that, then you also say that Tsunade can break heaven with a kick, meaning that she solo's. Not to mention that the attack name HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS POWER. So again, I win. This is my last reply.

4. Then show me where Yoh said that Hao's supernova could destroy Earth. You can't. He said a REAL LIFE supernova would destroy Earth, nothing about Hao OR his attack. For the last time, you are literally GIVING him feats because of his attacks name. You are wrong. I accept your concession.

5. Translation error is when something is incorrect because it was dubbed incorrectly. Since you haven't shown me a forest burning from Hao's attack, I hereby accept that you can't, and that I win. Spontaneous combustion? What will that do to the sannin that I have already shown to be able to tank fire, vaporization, and heat VASTLY above what Hao has shown capable of? Once again, I accept that you lose, and hereby concede.

6. And didn't you say that they were accurate, and use one even just a few posts ago? Again, I hereby accept your concession.

7. Are you retarded? Of course Tsunade used all her chakra. And here's my proof.

The scan CLEARLY states that Tsunade used all of her chakra to strengthen Katsuyu so she could keep the villagers alive. She even used her mitotic regeneration to keep them alive. Hints the month-long coma induced by it afterwords. When Kakashi almost became Hokage.

👆

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tsunade

And I gave you a wiki, because I know how you, for some reason, believe them more than actual scans. 👆

She tanked almighty push WHILE tanking it for everyone in the village as well. Again, she could CASUALLY tank it in a 1 v 1. 👆

You lose, I win.

8. Uh, no it's not, idiot. You're neglecting that there weren't even rocks by the fireball in the anime. However, there were mountains that were LARGER than Gamabunta, but SMALLER than the fireball, again, making the fireball small mountain sized, which is THOUSANDS OF TIME GREATER THAN ANYTHING HAO HAS EVER DEMONSTRATED. So, again, I win, you lose.

What did Hao's fireball destroy? Wood? Jiraiya's casual punch does that. Jiraiya's fireball had an AOE of small mountain size, meaning that converting its size with a explosion force, that puts Jiraiya's fireball at a few megatons, which is capable of small mountain busting or small town busting. You still haven't done anything other than say, "It can't be true, because I don't want it to be", and play the denial card, so again, I accept your concession.

When did I say Itachi was a sannin? When did I say Itachi was a clone of Naruto? Are you retarded? I powerscaled from what Naruto did to a 30% Itachi, and calced that Jiraiya could do vastly more, considering Itachi said him and Kisame at full power with backup would lose to Jiraiya. Again, you have yet to even make an argument, so I'm done wasting my time with you.

I've proven that the sannin have greater durability, greater strength, greater power, greater speed, greater resistance, AND can easily get around Hao's flight. Once again, you have yet to even argue against these facts, so I'm going to ignore your petty hard-headedness, and idiocy, and just know, like everyone else here does, that I. Have. Won.

The sannin shit on Hao. 👆

Loss on what exactly. Hao used a comet as a sword. What's there to argue about.

You flipped between Chocolove and Horohoro to Yoh creating the comet at least twice even though both are incorrect as shown on the scan.

1. Why should I believe you? You don't have any numbers or frame of reference or anything else to scale the attack off of. All I have is you saying you did some pixel scanning and there's no evidence of you actually doing anything on here. Can you provide me a scan, some numbers, and a reason why you were able to get those numbers?

2. Misinterpreting what I said again. I already agree that Hao already had SoF up. What I said was that Hao had transmute it after the laser was fire but before it his in order to block the attack: the reaction and transmutation make up Hao's lightspeed reaction feat. Also for that mirror example you tried to use, that would only work if you move the mirror in front of your palm after the laser was activated but before the laser hit your hand. Try again.

3. You doubted Hao's Black Hole was the real deal: and perhaps it wasn't created from a giant sun. Nonetheless it has all the properties of a Black Hole and was created the same was as a real one so it stands to reason that it would have the same functionality as well: especially since it was mentioned in the scan I posted. Regardless of its origin, a Black Hole is Black Hole which Hao was able to make: What have the Sannin done that states that they could tank a Black Hole?

4. Where did he say those words? Point those exact words out from Yoh: quote something or highlight an image because Yoh never said anything about an actual supernova in that scan: He was only referring to Hao's which they had just got finished surviving. Here I'll post the scan so there's no more confusion.:.

5.Funny how the characters flat out call it a forest and now your saying its a translation error. You still haven't told me why the scan was wrong. Does another site have different words, do the live manga panels have something different. Plus there was an overview of a forest being buring covering a larger area than the one Jiraiya used witht he fireball on top of being done much faster: Hao activated his armor and the forest almost immediately burst into flames. Also why are you using a fire based jutsu to argue against Hao even though it has no means of harming him at all?

6. I said they were useful for general knowledge don't put words in my posts that I didn't type there. This also mean that you still want me to prove your point for you which I'm not going to do.

7. I never once said Tsunade wasn't exhausted after Shinra Tensei: find where I said that. I argued that she was just fine before the attack hit and wasn't afterwards. That scans shows something I already agree with so what was the point of it. Also the fact that Tsunade wasn't exhausted before the scan but is exhausted(drained) now means that she didn't casually tank anything. Fact is Tsunade wasn't in the same condition as she was prior to the attack in question. Not only that but as that scan shows, she was drained of chakra and exhausted: what's casual about that?

You arguing hypothetical about that event which didn't happen. "Could Tsunade tank it better if she wasn't protecting the village?" Probably, but because it didn't happen we will never know

8. The rock formations in the manga scan were not bigger than Gamabunta. even if they were that doesn't make them mountains since there isn't a mountain anywhere in this valley:

You're telling me a mountain just popped up somewhere in this valley. We already know the summons aren't bigger than mountains so using those rocks shown again wouldn't be wise.
Again you're scaling off the size of the attack rather than what the attack actually did. Hao did beat down an entire Naval Force, Hao did tank a grenade point black, Hao did one-shot an island busters, Hao did react to and block a lightspeed attack. See these are things that I can show you the end result of rather than a fireball that didn't destroy anything.

Also the who point of the forest feat was to show Hao can set anything on fire that he wants on a whim so long as there is oxygen present in the immediate area.

You're the one who mentioned Itachi here in the first place I should be asking you that. Also what was the point of mentioning Itachi to begin with? Naruto's Rasengan feat is not Jiraiya's so you can't just give him that feat because he's lacking one. As I've stated multiple times that statement isn't necessarily true considering what both Kisame and Itachi have been shown to do over the course of Part 2 in comparison to Jiraiya.

You haven't proven anything. All you're done is say my feats are bad because you don't like them or are misinterpreting the print because it doesn't agree with your argument. And I'm still waiting for that Jiraiya scan

Interesting debate though i think both sides are over powering the ones they like more.

Take Hoa after he absorbs the G.S. he is basically god at that point where he instantly kills all the main characters. The decapitating head not stopping him is because he was not in the body he was just controlling it like a puppet for fun. Yoh even states as much. After getting G.S. he is omnipotent able to instantly kill all the characters. He was only able to be fought inside himself in the great spirit so is that what goes on the 3 sannin get killed by him then fight him in great spirit like the main characters in shaman king did. It did not work out well for the main characters until they literally had everyone hao killed come and hao's mother come to convince him to return them to life.

Now for Hao with Spirit of Fire before becoming god basically. First is chakra and furyoku equal as i understand it in order to have a fair fight it has to be the chakra and furyoku basically become the same thing. Meaning the 3 sannin would actually be able to see the oversoul summoned by hoa and genjutsu can possibly affect hoa. Are we in agreement on that.

Then we have The spirit of fire oversoul form which if that is made of chakra is basically a bijuu or susanoo made of fire. That is incredibly fast and can be formed anywhere there is oxygen. While when he makes the armor oversoul its like he basically makes something between the chakra cloak naruto makes with his chakra and the susanoo ribcage and arms sasuke makes. So to me Hoa's Spirit of Fire ability s vs the 3 sannins basically is asking how well the 3 sannins will do against a guy who has a fire nature Susanoo. That is just the abilities he has from the fire spirit.

Then we have Hao's reading the heart ability which he can't turn off and is always basically able to hear peoples thoughts. Considering the sannin where never shown to be immune to mind reading i would say he is able to read there minds. Though i read up in the discussion it was argued that sannins have mental blocks. There is a difference between having someone invade your mind as the yamanaka do and passively hearing the thoughts of everyone in the room.

So what are your thoughts.