Goku vs whole HST

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Then why did Goku specifically criticize him for "letting yourself be controlled by Babidi"? Exactly. It's actually changing his personality and mindset, not just controlling it. Something no one in all of Naruto can do. Yet Vegeta could still resist it completely.

Then why did Sasuke need to go CS2 to break out of it? If he didn't need to be stronger, then why did he need to become stronger? lol

In reality, but not to the person using it or the person being affected by it. Meaning Goku can easily shit out of it whenever he feels like it.

No one that doesn't have ki sense. Genjutsu controls the targets chakra flow and in doing so, their five sense. Goku has not only way too much ki for anyone to control a fraction of(from Naruto), but also a sixth sense, that genjutsu can't demonstrably affect. Izanami can be broken out of by doing something different, or by accepting yourself. Goku has never had a problem doing either of those things without explanations.

Not to mention that even if it took him a minute to break Izanami, he would be tanking everything casually while standing there, considering him as SSJ3 in the Buu saga throws around and tanks universe/reality busting attacks like he doesn't feel them.

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-393-19/naruto/chapter-388.html sasuke broke out because of his sharingan

The point is goku wouldnt even realize he is in an illusion. Goku is strong but not necessarily smart im not sure he would have trouble figuring out the rules behind izanami he would jus continue the loop over and over again. Goku never having experienced this type of illusion would be a problem for him. Hes a brawler doesnt necessarily have great analytical skills

Also tsyukuyomi does have the power to put a very large amount of mental strain on goku. And it only lasts 1 second So illusion techs like that would be a viable option against goku.

But gokus mindset is the key if he isnt bloodlusted they could prove to pesky and cause him some annoying probs.

Goku would get rid of Izanami in no time, it's really a non-factor.

Yeah Izanami is useless here. Now Aizen's broken ass shikai or someone throwing Sugar at him on the other hand could cause some problems.

However none of that's a problem if he's serious from the get-go.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Yeah Izanami is useless here. Now Aizen's broken ass shikai or someone throwing Sugar at him on the other hand could cause some problems.

However none of that's a problem if he's serious from the get-go.

Yea now that i think about it kyoka would be gokus biggest problem if were talking illusions here goku wouldnt even realize hes in an illusion...... Goku still wins because they cant physically hurt him most they could do is kamui him somewhere or give him a very bad headache

Originally posted by chasedown
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-393-19/naruto/chapter-388.html sasuke broke out because of his sharingan

The point is goku wouldnt even realize he is in an illusion. Goku is strong but not necessarily smart im not sure he would have trouble figuring out the rules behind izanami he would jus continue the loop over and over again. Goku never having experienced this type of illusion would be a problem for him. Hes a brawler doesnt necessarily have great analytical skills

Also tsyukuyomi does have the power to put a very large amount of mental strain on goku. And it only lasts 1 second So illusion techs like that would be a viable option against goku.

But gokus mindset is the key if he isnt bloodlusted they could prove to pesky and cause him some annoying probs.

But WHAT did Sasuke have to use to break out of it? CS2, just like I said. 👆

Except, again, Goku accepts reality, and has never had a problem doing so. He knows that he's a simple Saiyan from Earth, meaning that Izanami would instantly become undone if used against him, IF it even effected him at all.

If he didn't break out of it, which he instantly could. "In reality, but not to the person using it or the person being affected by it. Meaning Goku can easily shit out of it whenever he feels like it." 👆

Which would still do nothing to him, as he still has ki sense, which allows him to instantly realize he's under an illusion, that he can break out of instantly by yelling a bit. 👆

Originally posted by chasedown
Yea now that i think about it kyoka would be gokus biggest problem if were talking illusions here goku wouldnt even realize hes in an illusion...... Goku still wins because they cant physically hurt him most they could do is kamui him somewhere or give him a very bad headache

Except you only have to touch Kyoka Suigetsu to negate its effect. Goku has ki sense, which Aizen can't control, meaning Goku grabs it instantly and breaks it off in Aizen's arse-hole.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

But WHAT did Sasuke have to use to break out of it? CS2, just like I said. 👆

Except, again, Goku accepts reality, and has never had a problem doing so. He knows that he's a simple Saiyan from Earth, meaning that Izanami would instantly become undone if used against him, IF it even effected him at all.

If he didn't break out of it, which he instantly could. "In reality, but not to the person using it or the person being affected by it. Meaning Goku can easily shit out of it whenever he feels like it." 👆

Which would still do nothing to him, as he still has ki sense, which allows him to instantly realize he's under an illusion, that he can break out of instantly by yelling a bit. 👆

The cs2 was part of the illusion notice when the illusion was broken sasuke was still in base form.....and aizen can make goku miss with kyoka its complete hypnosis he can change gokus perception of energy and he can make himself appear to be in different places on the battlefield and create scenarios goku would think are real... Also aizen doesnt have ki so ki sensing wouldnt work...

Ki is more similar to chakra

Reatsu is totally different

In the end im not arguing that aizen could beat him Goku would still win because aizen has no way to hurt him he can only trap him in illusions and in the end goku could just blow them all up. Its just if goku isnt bloodlusted the fight would be a little longer

Goku can lose. It's very possible with the hax the HST have. However, assuming that Goku is serious, even Saiyan Saga Goku can make short work of every single HST character. He has like planetary level destructive capacity and would also be massively faster than all of them except for maybe Kizaru and Gai.

Goku should take a mental note to just oneshot Sugar and Perona off the bat. While each of the HSt has a variety of hax abilities, those two appear to have the most troublesome ones in terms of dealing with Goku.

Originally posted by chasedown
The cs2 was part of the illusion notice when the illusion was broken sasuke was still in base form.....and aizen can make goku miss with kyoka its complete hypnosis he can change gokus perception of energy and he can make himself appear to be in different places on the battlefield and create scenarios goku would think are real... Also aizen doesnt have ki so ki sensing wouldnt work...

Ki is more similar to chakra

Reatsu is totally different

In the end im not arguing that aizen could beat him Goku would still win because aizen has no way to hurt him he can only trap him in illusions and in the end goku could just blow them all up. Its just if goku isnt bloodlusted the fight would be a little longer

If you read the manga, you'd see his curse mark receding.

You can clearly see the curse mark still on his face and arm in the bottom right panel. He went out of it, but he still needed to use it in the first place. Not to mention that Zetsu's statement supports it, that a novice with a shuriken can lose to an expert with a stone, by insinuating that Sasuke was strong enough to force out of it. Sure the sharingan definitely helped, but he still made up for lack of mangekyo with Chakra, and Goku could just as easily make up for lack of sharingan with ki.

How's that? What basis do you have to make that claim? Aizen can't control your sense of spiritual pressure, but can now control ki sense too? He's never demonstrated that, and you giving him abilities proves you to be a retarded fanboy.

Why's that? Ki has allowed Goku and DBZ characters to fight and interact with ghosts before. If anything, it's more like Reiatsu than chakra. Not to mention that ki is VASTLY stronger than both of them put together, as even low tier DBZ characters a FTL and planet busters.

In the end, again, Goku would catch Kyoka suigetsu since he can since ki, and impale Aizen's butthole with it.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Goku can lose. It's very possible with the hax the HST have. However, assuming that Goku is serious, even Saiyan Saga Goku can make short work of every single HST character. He has like planetary level destructive capacity and would also be massively faster than all of them except for maybe Kizaru and Gai.

How? Goku can literally either tank, casually break free from, or shrug off/repel ANY hax abilities in the HST like it's nothing.

No, Saiyan saga Vegeta had planet busting power, Kid Buu had Galaxy level, and Bills had universe level destructive power, both of whom Goku defeated, or fought on par with. Also, do I really need to shit on that Kizaru/Gai argument by proving Goku to be millions of times FTL, while neither of them are even LS?

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
How? Goku can literally either tank, casually break free from, or shrug off/repel ANY hax abilities in the HST like it's nothing.

No, Saiyan saga Vegeta had planet busting power, Kid Buu had Galaxy level, and Bills had universe level destructive power, both of whom Goku defeated, or fought on par with. Also, do I really need to shit on that Kizaru/Gai argument by proving Goku to be millions of times FTL, while neither of them are even LS?

Goku can't tanl hax like that. He's not a BLEACH character where higher reiatsu cancels out hax. If, for example, he gets stuck in Ope Ope no Mi or Crocodile dehydrates him, he's done for.

Also, how is Kizaru not light speed when his Logia is a light type?

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
If you read the manga, you'd see his curse mark receding.

You can clearly see the curse mark still on his face and arm in the bottom right panel. He went out of it, but he still needed to use it in the first place. Not to mention that Zetsu's statement supports it, that a novice with a shuriken can lose to an expert with a stone, by insinuating that Sasuke was strong enough to force out of it. Sure the sharingan definitely helped, but he still made up for lack of mangekyo with Chakra, and Goku could just as easily make up for lack of sharingan with ki.

How's that? What basis do you have to make that claim? Aizen can't control your sense of spiritual pressure, but can now control ki sense too? He's never demonstrated that, and you giving him abilities proves you to be a retarded fanboy.

Why's that? Ki has allowed Goku and DBZ characters to fight and interact with ghosts before. If anything, it's more like Reiatsu than chakra. Not to mention that ki is VASTLY stronger than both of them put together, as even low tier DBZ characters a FTL and planet busters.

In the end, again, Goku would catch Kyoka suigetsu since he can since ki, and impale Aizen's butthole with it.

Dude the curse mark was apart of the illusion as you can see once the illusions broken its as if he never moved that whole interaction happened within their minds sasuke never activated his curse mark. The panel you just showed is the illusion breaking up.

Aizen's kyoka suigetsu manipulate opponents perception senses.

When goku senses another persons energy he always says stuff like " i can FEEL his energy" isnt the sense of feel a sense

http://www.mangapanda.com/94-625-13/bleach/chapter-171.html

Reatsu and ki are not the same thing. Has goku's ki ever made someone cease to exist? No

Originally posted by chasedown
Dude the curse mark was apart of the illusion as you can see once the illusions broken its as if he never moved that whole interaction happened within their minds sasuke never activated his curse mark. The panel you just showed is the illusion breaking up.

Aizen's kyoka suigetsu manipulate opponents perception senses.

When goku senses another persons energy he always says stuff like " i can FEEL his energy" isnt the sense of feel a sense

http://www.mangapanda.com/94-625-13/bleach/chapter-171.html

Reatsu and ki are not the same thing. Has goku's ki ever made someone cease to exist? No

Again, you failed to see the scan I posted. 👆

You just posted a scan disproving your own statement. Again, he can only control the five senses, taste, smell, touch, sight, and hearing. Not ki sense. 👆

No, Goku says he can SENSE someone's energy. Even Roshi explained that it's a sixth sense in Dragon Ball. 👆

Has anyone in Bleach's? No. Aizen has vaporized people by being so much stronger than them that they die, but Goku has overpowered universe busting entities with his sheer ki. Goku. Shits. On. The. HST. And casually, at that. 👆

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Again, you failed to see the scan I posted. 👆

You just posted a scan disproving your own statement. Again, he can only control the five senses, taste, smell, touch, sight, and hearing. Not ki sense. 👆

No, Goku says he can SENSE someone's energy. Even Roshi explained that it's a sixth sense in Dragon Ball. 👆

Has anyone in Bleach's? No. Aizen has vaporized people by being so much stronger than them that they die, but Goku has overpowered universe busting entities with his sheer ki. Goku. Shits. On. The. HST. And casually, at that. 👆

the person was vaporized because of aizen's reatsu. aizen stated it himself.

If aizen's kyoka was that easy to break out of how come literally nobody has ever seen through it by just sensing him?

and again Ki and reatsu are not the same. sure ki can blow somebody away when goku or somebody is charging up but also Ki has never suffocated their opponents brought them to their knees or literally made them cease to exist.

after someone in dbz is done charging up their opponents always can still fight.

Originally posted by chasedown
the person was vaporized because of aizen's reatsu. aizen stated it himself.

If aizen's kyoka was that easy to break out of how come literally nobody has ever seen through it by just sensing him?

and again Ki and reatsu are not the same. sure ki can blow somebody away when goku or somebody is charging up but also Ki has never suffocated their opponents brought them to their knees or literally made them cease to exist.

after someone in dbz is done charging up their opponents always can still fight.

Exactly. He never "erased someone from existence" though. Also, that only works on someone vastly weaker than him. Goku is vastly stronger, so Aizen would be the one who got vaporized.

Does anyone in Bleach have ki sense? Or the ability to sense someone from a universe away?

So you're telling me that Cell has never used his mere ki aura to cause a huge wrestler to be pinned to the ground from what he perceived as increased gravity? Just like Ichigo. Ichigo was on "a different plane of power" than Aizen, so he should have vaporize him, right? No, he concealed his power because he didn't want to vaporize him instantly. No one in Bleach has ever made anyone cease to exist, idiot.

Because making someone evaporate from your mere presence is boring. Akira Toriyama didn't make that happen because he's not interested in making shitty predictable fights. It doesn't matter though, because you need to generate infinitely more power to blow up a universe than to destroy a hill.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Exactly. He never "erased someone from existence" though. Also, that only works on someone vastly weaker than him. Goku is vastly stronger, so Aizen would be the one who got vaporized.

Does anyone in Bleach have ki sense? Or the ability to sense someone from a universe away?

So you're telling me that Cell has never used his mere ki aura to cause a huge wrestler to be pinned to the ground from what he perceived as increased gravity? Just like Ichigo. Ichigo was on "a different plane of power" than Aizen, so he should have vaporize him, right? No, he concealed his power because he didn't want to vaporize him instantly. No one in Bleach has ever made anyone cease to exist, idiot.

Because making someone evaporate from your mere presence is boring. Akira Toriyama didn't make that happen because he's not interested in making shitty predictable fights. It doesn't matter though, because you need to generate infinitely more power to blow up a universe than to destroy a hill.

Like i said reatsu is not the same as ki. Ki has never vaporized someone just by charging up. Reatsu crushes souls.

And you just proved my point why goku wouldnt be able to sense him. They dont have ki. Ki is not the same but more similar to chakra.

Originally posted by chasedown
Like i said reatsu is not the same as ki. Ki has never vaporized someone just by charging up. Reatsu crushes souls.

And you just proved my point why goku wouldnt be able to sense him. They dont have ki. Ki is not the same but more similar to chakra.

Ki has vaporized entire mountains and nearly destroyed planets just by charging up. That outweighs the person thing sorely.

Except Goku has sensed and fought ghosts and souls before. Ki is the same thing, simply because of Goku's feats of dealing with spirits and ghosts. Goku could sense him just like Gohan could sense Goku(from across the universe).

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Ki has vaporized entire mountains and nearly destroyed planets just by charging up. That outweighs the person thing sorely.

Except Goku has sensed and fought ghosts and souls before. Ki is the same thing, simply because of Goku's feats of dealing with spirits and ghosts. Goku could sense him just like Gohan could sense Goku(from across the universe).

When did goku fight a ghost? And was that ghost showcasing reatsu like powers?

You realize when gohan was sensing goku that goku's body was alive even for that day.

Goku cant sense reatsu im not arguing about which one is stronger your clearly missing my point. Reatsu crushes souls ki does not they arent they same.

Originally posted by chasedown
When did goku fight a ghost? And was that ghost showcasing reatsu like powers?

You realize when gohan was sensing goku that goku's body was alive even for that day.

Goku cant sense reatsu im not arguing about which one is stronger your clearly missing my point. Reatsu crushes souls ki does not they arent they same.

This was the first of many times Goku fought a ghost.

Uhh, no, Goku was clearly dead.

Same with Vegeta. 👆

They were simply sent back to Earth as spirits.

Goku sensed the energy of a ghost, and what are soul reapers? Ghosts, meaning that Goku can sense what? Reiatsu. 👆