Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Aight fair enough, I guess I thought Maul was a good saber fighter, guess he ain't that good.
Maul is good. He's just not beating ep3 Vader.
FFWD to 4:05
Originally posted by RobtardMaster Obi would soundly defeat Maul.
No. They've fought several times in TCW and "Master" Obi has never managed to defeat him. Kenobi seems to have the advantage in Saber skill whilst Maul seems more powerful in the Force. But overall they have been portrayed as pretty much equals.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No. They've fought several times in TCW and "Master" Obi has never managed to defeat him. Kenobi seems to have the advantage in Saber skill whilst Maul seems more powerful in the Force. But overall they have been portrayed as pretty much equals.
Does that shit even count on this forum? Also didn't Obi-Wan handle Maul and Savage at the same time.
He did fight both of them off yeah. But Clone Wars is inconsistent. The undisputed master of Soresu(Obi-Wan) and one of the more powerful Jedi at the time had trouble with Maul.
But he also beat Maul and Savage. But when Savage was first introduced, he steamrolled everybody. Even Maul had trouble with that Mandalorian and had to resort to the Force or he would have gotten beaten.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Does that shit even count on this forum? Also didn't Obi-Wan handle Maul and Savage at the same time.
Yes, because it's canon to the movies. Not to mention the first episode was a movie.
As for the Obi-Wan vs Maul and Savage at the same time, he hardly "handled" them considering it ended with Maul blasting the wind out of Kenobi with the Force. Not to mention that was one fight out of several. And in all their fights Kenobi never managed to defeat Maul. They were pretty much equals.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Then Anakin wins solidly.
How does that make Anakin's win more convincing? I agree he wins, but going by the animation I'd say Maul makes him work for it.
Originally posted by Bentley
This is spite, Maul is outgunned by Vader in everyway possible. Either Dooku or Obi-wan would beat him handily.
Obi-Wan can't beat him handily. And he's tried several times.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes, because it's canon to the movies. Not to mention the first episode was a movie.As for the Obi-Wan vs Maul and Savage at the same time, he hardly "handled" them considering it ended with Maul blasting the wind out of Kenobi with the Force. Not to mention that was one fight out of several. And in all their fights Kenobi never managed to defeat Maul. They were pretty much equals.
How does that make Anakin's win more convincing? I agree he wins, but going by the animation I'd say Maul makes him work for it.
Obi-Wan put him on his ass as a Padawan, Maul had to use his superior Force powers to push him into the pit.
He definitely handled them considering Savage lost an arm and Maul had to use his powers to bfr Obi-Wan again. I'd say that Obi-Wan, as motivated as he was when he faced both of them, would take an 8/10 at least against Maul in a duel. And I'd bet RotS Obi-Wan was stronger than his Clone Wars self, and he was still unable to beat Anakin until Anakin went full retard.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Obi-Wan put him on his ass as a Padawan, Maul had to use his superior Force powers to push him into the pit.
Padawan? Technically yes, he was Knighted the same day, so it's not like he was some noob. And how many times did Maul put Kenobi on his ass before that? At one point he disarmed his and completely knocked him senseless.
And I doubt he "HAD TO" Force push him down the pit. Just because he put him down one way doesn't mean there was no other way to put him down. Especially considering he already had floored him and disarmed him of his Saber previously in the fight.
Originally posted by Psychotron
He definitely handled them considering Savage lost an arm and Maul had to use his powers to bfr Obi-Wan again.
Considering Maul floored him Twice with the Force in that fight I wouldn't call it handling. The second time he knocked him senseless. But yeah he did very well in Sabers in that fight, yet still never managed to put Maul down.
Originally posted by Psychotron
I'd say that Obi-Wan, as motivated as he was when he faced both of them, would take an 8/10 at least against Maul in a duel. And I'd bet RotS Obi-Wan was stronger than his Clone Wars self, and he was still unable to beat Anakin until Anakin went full retard.
Replicate those same circumstances? Then yes I'd say in those circumstances Kenobi would take Maul in a pure Saber fight, given that was a peak performance for Obi-Wan, and an average performance by Maul. But going by all their fights I'd say a Saber fight between them would be a 50/50 split. I may be convinced to give it 55/45 to Kenobi though. But then I'd say Maul's superior force powers give him a definite edge in an all out.
That last fight was in season 5, so not too far off from ROTS. And Maul was also growing more powerful since that fight (he was still getting back into the swing of things at that point).
Yes Anakin wins. But Maul makes him work for it.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Padawan? Technically yes, he was Knighted the same day, so it's not like he was some noob. And how many times did Maul put Kenobi on his ass before that? At one point he disarmed his and completely knocked him senseless.And I doubt he "HAD TO" Force push him down the pit. Just because he put him down one way doesn't mean there was no other way to put him down. Especially considering he already had floored him and disarmed him of his Saber previously in the fight.
Considering Maul floored him Twice with the Force in that fight I wouldn't call it handling. The second time he knocked him senseless. But yeah he did very well in Sabers in that fight, yet still never managed to put Maul down.
Replicate those same circumstances? Then yes I'd say in those circumstances Kenobi would take Maul in a pure Saber fight, given that was a peak performance for Obi-Wan, and an average performance by Maul. But going by all their fights I'd say a Saber fight between them would be a 50/50 split. I may be convinced to give it 55/45 to Kenobi though. But then I'd say Maul's superior force powers give him a definite edge in an all out.
That last fight was in season 5, so not too far off from ROTS. And Maul was also growing more powerful since that fight (he was still getting back into the swing of things at that point).
Yes Anakin wins. But Maul makes him work for it.
Yeah, he got knighted on the same day, but you can't deny that he was far from his peak both as a duelist and in the Force. When did Maul disarm Obi-Wan? I remember he knocked him off one of the walkways, and they didn't cross sabers again until Maul had already killed Qui-Gon.
Obi-Wan cut his saber in half and knocked him down, Maul tried to go on the offensive again, but couldn't subdue him. Seemed to me that he had to use the Force.
I'm not denying that Maul is Obi-Wan's superior in the Force, but Kenobi is definitely the better duelist. By RotS he's well above Maul imo. Anakin was stronger in the Force than Obi-Wan so he wouldn't get owned like Kenobi.
How much stronger could he have gotten with just half of his body?
Originally posted by Psychotron
Yeah, he got knighted on the same day, but you can't deny that he was far from his peak both as a duelist and in the Force. When did Maul disarm Obi-Wan? I remember he knocked him off one of the walkways, and they didn't cross sabers again until Maul had already killed Qui-Gon.
Kenobi was disarmed when he was knocked off the walkway. There was another kick before that where he was floored but not disarmed.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Obi-Wan cut his saber in half and knocked him down, Maul tried to go on the offensive again, but couldn't subdue him. Seemed to me that he had to use the Force.
A Force push is just a standard part of a Lightsaber fight. If Kenobi attempted to block the Force push but still got knocked off, then I'd agree with you. But the fact that he couldn't/didn't block it in time shows Maul just outfought him Imo. It's upto Kenobi to watch out for kicks and Force push's during the fight.
Originally posted by Psychotron
I'm not denying that Maul is Obi-Wan's superior in the Force, but Kenobi is definitely the better duelist. By RotS he's well above Maul imo. Anakin was stronger in the Force than Obi-Wan so he wouldn't get owned like Kenobi.How much stronger could he have gotten with just half of his body?
Find it hard to put Kenobi solidly above him looking at their Clone War fights.
Maul was out of action for 10+years, so needed time to get back into form. Plus his hate grew more powerful than ever according to the narrator, and Savage himself noted how Maul's powers were growing. And btw his 5 second stompage of Opress in the same episode was an awesome feat considering some of Opress's previous feats.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Kenobi was disarmed when he was knocked off the walkway. There was another kick before that where he was floored but not disarmed.A Force push is just a standard part of a Lightsaber fight. If Kenobi attempted to block the Force push but still got knocked off, then I'd agree with you. But the fact that he couldn't/didn't block it in time shows Maul just outfought him Imo. It's upto Kenobi to watch out for kicks and Force push's during the fight.
Find it hard to put Kenobi solidly above him looking at their Clone War fights.
Maul was out of action for 10+years, so needed time to get back into form. Plus his hate grew more powerful than ever according to the narrator, and Savage himself noted how Maul's powers were growing. And btw his 5 second stompage of Opress in the same episode was an awesome feat considering some of Opress's previous feats.
Ah, yes. It was mostly due to the fall though. Still, Maul couldn't do that to him when Kenobi went all out after Jinn's death.
I'm not saying that Maul cheated or anything, I'm saying Kenobi was the superior duelist. Dooku took him out with the Force, too. Looks like Obi-Wan's Force defenses are not in the same league as his saber skills. However, Anakin is stronger in the Force so it won't be a problem for him.
He should be based on his fight Grevious, Anakin, and the Zabrak brothers.
Yeah, I guess that makes sense, but it makes you wonder why Vader was so handicapped when didn't lose as much as Maul did. Must be psychological.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Ah, yes. It was mostly due to the fall though. Still, Maul couldn't do that to him when Kenobi went all out after Jinn's death.
Well it's not every day your mentor dies, so I don't really take that as a standard showing that he can do whenever he likes.
Originally posted by Psychotron
I'm not saying that Maul cheated or anything, I'm saying Kenobi was the superior duelist. Dooku took him out with the Force, too. Looks like Obi-Wan's Force defenses are not in the same league as his saber skills. However, Anakin is stronger in the Force so it won't be a problem for him.
Kenobi may be the superior duelist to Maul, but not by much Imho. Also in their last CW fight (season 6) Dooku was dealing with Kenobi without use of the Force. But then Dooku is on another level tbh.
Originally posted by Psychotron
He should be based on his fight Grevious, Anakin, and the Zabrak brothers.
Fair. But I think it's a shame we didn't get to see Maul fight many different force users, even after his come back in TCW. His brother Savage actually has more feats to his name, even though Maul showed he can stomp Savage.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Yeah, I guess that makes sense, but it makes you wonder why Vader was so handicapped when didn't lose as much as Maul did. Must be psychological.
Maul lost his legs (and private parts 😂 ), but Vader lost his arms and legs, and was burnt to a crisp needing to live off life support. So he required that huge chunk of armor which really limited his mobility. Maul though was able to regain his mobility which was always an important part of his combat style.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well it's not every day your mentor dies, so I don't really take that as a standard showing that he can do whenever he likes.Kenobi may be the superior duelist to Maul, but not by much Imho. Also in their last CW fight (season 6) Dooku was dealing with Kenobi without use of the Force. But then Dooku is on another level tbh.
Fair. But I think it's a shame we didn't get to see Maul fight many different force users, even after his come back in TCW. His brother Savage actually has more feats to his name, even though Maul showed he can stomp Savage.
Maul lost his legs (and private parts 😂 ), but Vader lost his arms and legs, and was burnt to a crisp needing to live off life support. So he required that huge chunk of armor which really limited his mobility. Maul though was able to regain his mobility which was always an important part of his combat style.
Yeah, obviously this was Obi-Wan at his (then) 100%. But I would think that Maul would pretty much always be running at peak efficiency due to the nature of his training.
Well, yeah, Dooku is >> Kenobi, but Obi-Wan's style is poorly suited for Dooku's. Perhaps if Obi-Wan had mastered Ataru instead, he could have given Dooku a better fight.
The fight with Sidious was pretty cool, though Sidious was clearly toying with them. But they shouldn't have brought Maul back, it was stupid.
Vader didn't lose the whole of his limbs, only the parts under his elbows/knees. If it didn't hinder Maul that much, it shouldn't have hindered Vader either. And then there's Grevious.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No. They've fought several times in TCW and "Master" Obi has never managed to defeat him. Kenobi seems to have the advantage in Saber skill whilst Maul seems more powerful in the Force. But overall they have been portrayed as pretty much equals.
GTFO with your non film nonsense. That's also different skilled chars compared to EP1 Maul and Ep3 Obi, son.