Darth Caedus vs Hero of Tython

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sidious's position is in respect to one specific Order.

Sith Emperor is a Sith only in label/pretention, he is a dark side practitioner who doesn't cares about Sith ideals.

TOR sources rank Sith Emperor on a grand scale and not just one specific order:-

"The Sith Emperor, history's most powerful dark side master, performed a ritual of incredible scope to consume the life energy of every being on his homeworld."

"The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed."

"The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen."

Red from SWTOR(E) and blue from SWTOR(G).

All of these only refer to up to that time period. Try again.

Let's see how Caedus's force powers would affect HoT:

shatterpoint: has never used this in combat I don't believe

lightning: his in particular isn't very good

TK: his biggest "advantage", yet the Hero wasn't overwhelmed by Vitiate's TK, which is probably just as impressive.

Fighting Sight: Having powerful precog is great, but Revan's was seemingly far more powerful, and look where it got him. The Precog would be mostly useful in a saber duel, but the Hero has defeated numerous opponents with his saber ability, and is said to have legendary martial skills. Hell, as a trainee on Tython, he's already stated to be an expert swordsman. Add this in with the fact that his skill would increase even more exponentially due to the fact that he'd be facing actual enemies and gaining combat experience instead of practice training, and you get an unstoppable God of invincible lightsaber prowess 👆

kinda wanked out at the end there. #yolo

/thread.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
All of these only refer to up to that time period. Try again.

The Son, Soa: The Infernal One, The Father, The Daughter and Abeloth predate even Sith Emperor.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
[B]You have a brain, right? Use it.

The Father, The Daughter and Abeloth predate even Sith Emperor.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I seriously doubt they are including the Mortis family, and for you to think they do is embarrassing.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Their is no rocket science about what Force-user term means. It covers all Force-users irrespective of alliances and conditions.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I seriously doubt they are including the Mortis family, and for you to think they do is embarrassing.

Q2: The Ones are Force-users, right?

Q1: Perhaps.
Q2: Yes. That doesn't mean it applies to them, they are more "the Force itself" then mere "force-users"

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Q1: Perhaps.

The authors are:-

- Ian Ryan
- Charles Boyd
- Hall Hood
- Joanna Berry
- Zach Bush
- James B. Jones

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Q2: Yes. That doesn't mean it applies to them, they are more "the Force itself" then mere "force-users"

"In the mysterious realm of Mortis there exists a trio of beings able to wield the Force in ways no known mortals of the galaxy can."

"The Daughter of Mortis is a Force-wielder who aligns herself with the light side of the Force."

"The Son was an embodiment of the dark side of the Force who dwelled on Mortis during the Clone Wars with his sister, the light-sider known as Daughter, and the powerful Force user known as Father, who tried to keep them in balance."

Okay. Once more.

1. The Ones are Force-users. Yes. Thank you for repeatedly saying that. No one is arguing it, though.

2. When someone uses the term Force-user, however, they typically aren't referring to them. They're apolitical and irrelevant to most discussions, because there's little to say about them. It's mostly just shorthand. We do that. It's a thing.

3. The encyclopedia probably wasn't referring to them either. It probably didn't even know about them. Unless you can prove it was (and it did), your insistence is worth as much as anyone else's claims to the contrary. And repeatedly stating that the Ones are Force-users isn't that, so stop doing that.

4. A tiny bit of logic. If Vitiate were of the caliber of the Ones, how on Earth would he end up losing? The Ones are effectively disparate Force philosophies given physical form. While judging them by their mastery of the Force is completely missing the point, it stands to reason that they're rather incomparable. When the HoT fought Vitiate, there wasn't some fancy Force philosophy going on there, no 'chosen one' born of the Force, or whatever. It was a lightsaber to the gut.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Let's see how Caedus's force powers would affect HoT:

shatterpoint: has never used this in combat I don't believe

lightning: his in particular isn't very good

TK: his biggest "advantage", yet the Hero wasn't overwhelmed by Vitiate's TK, which is probably just as impressive.

Fighting Sight: Having powerful precog is great, but Revan's was seemingly far more powerful, and look where it got him. The Precog would be mostly useful in a saber duel, but the Hero has defeated numerous opponents with his saber ability, and is said to have legendary martial skills. Hell, as a trainee on Tython, he's already stated to be an expert swordsman. Add this in with the fact that his skill would increase even more exponentially due to the fact that he'd be facing actual enemies and gaining combat experience instead of practice training, and you get an unstoppable God of invincible lightsaber prowess 👆

kinda wanked out at the end there. #yolo

/thread.

👆 👆 👆

Originally posted by A Terrible Rod
Okay. Once more.

1. The Ones are Force-users. Yes. Thank you for repeatedly saying that. No one is arguing it, though.

2. When someone uses the term Force-user, however, they typically aren't referring to them. They're apolitical and irrelevant to most discussions, because there's little to say about them. It's mostly just shorthand. We do that. It's a thing.

3. The encyclopedia probably wasn't referring to them either. It probably didn't even know about them. Unless you can prove it was (and it did), your insistence is worth as much as anyone else's claims to the contrary. And repeatedly stating that the Ones are Force-users isn't that, so stop doing that.

4. A tiny bit of logic. If Vitiate were of the caliber of the Ones, how on Earth would he end up losing? The Ones are effectively disparate Force philosophies given physical form. While judging them by their mastery of the Force is completely missing the point, it stands to reason that they're rather incomparable. When the HoT fought Vitiate, there wasn't some fancy Force philosophy going on there, no 'chosen one' born of the Force, or whatever. It was a lightsaber to the gut.

2. The term Force-user is generic, it can be used to represent any kind of Force-user (mortal or not). Examples provided by me already.

3. Statements (representing accolades of Sith Emperor) in Encyclopedia are precise and clear, no ifs and buts in them.

4. How Abeloth lost? Something happened right?

Most powerful Force-users aren't unstoppable, incredibly difficult to defeat though. The Jedi Order attempted to assassinate/eliminate Sith Emperor for a long long time; only one attempt proved to be successful, thanks to favorable circumstances during this time (keeping in view known data).

Any rebuttals to my response to the actual topic?

^^^

Your response is very well done, IMO.

The HoT is probably one of the top 4 saber duelists in star wars.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
2-3. Stuff.

4. How Abeloth lost? Something happened right?

4. Abeloth wasn't a Force wielder (which seems to be the name of their species). She just did things to become what she was. And she was ultimately defeated. It took an awful lot of effort, from some very powerful Force-users, and it wasn't in a straight 1v1 fight (indeed, there was an awful lot going on there). She'd be a more valid point of comparison, if you wanted to put Vitiate on that level (which is nonsense of course, but you're entitled to that).

Re: Being on-topic, defeating Vitiate is HoT's most notable feat. How powerful Vitiate is is just a tiny bit important to that. If Vitiate was some kind of a Force god, then yeah, Caedus probably gets stomped. Otherwise, there's actual room for debate.

I mean, I just don't see how Caedus's force abilities would overwhelm the Hero in any way. And the hero has superior lightsaber prowess imo.

I feel like I should throw out my Hero of Tython Respect Thread to contribute to the thread. Just as a formality.

His strength is inconceivable, really. he's literally stated as one of the most powerful jedi in the order right after Tython. His power progression after that would continue to grow quickly as he gains more combat experience from fighting more powerful sith lords, and then of course is his natural progression in force power. And something you have to consider is that his battle against the Emperor wouldn't really be a saber duel, but a battle of the force (until of course the Hero cuts him down). So the Hero is definitely an immensely powerful force wielder as well as a legendary duelist.

Is HoT male or female?!

I consider the HoT a male.