Couple things:
Ulic-Qel Droma should get a mention in here:
"The spirit of Freedon Nadd appeared before Ulic and proclaimed he would one day be one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history...Ulic went to Cinnagar, presented himself to the Krath, and eventually fulfilled Freedon Nadd's prophecy."
-Power of the Jedi Sourcebook
However, keep in mind the following:
Even Ulic Qel-Droma would be envious of Palpatine. He had succeeded where all others had failed in taming the Dark Side.
-Dark Empire Sourcebook
"No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine."
-Kevin J. Anderson
_______________________________________________
About the Son and the Mortis Family:
1. He is confirmed superior to any Sith:
"The Son was not a Sith -- his powers existed beyond the domain of the Sith Lords."
2. He is immune to any attacks from mortals, the only ones who can challenge him are: Abeloth, The Father, The Daughter, and Anakin Skywalker (prime). Heck, they can casually extinguish lightsabers with a flick of their hand.
3. He and the Daughter are stated by the Father to destroy the Universe if not in Mortis:
"My children and I can manipulate the Force like no other. Therefore, it was necessary to withdraw from the temporal world and live here as anchorites...You cannot imagine what pain it is to have such love for your children… and realize that they could tear the very fabric of our universe."
4. The Mortis family literally has EONS of knowledge on the Force, completely outclassing any Sith Lord, including Vitiate.
From what I've heard The Son blew up a mountain with lightning
Other notes on them:
-They can change to any shape they want
-They can fly faster then ships
-They can ONLY be killed if either the Father is killed, or they are stabbed by the Dagger of Mortis.
-They can casually summon fire around them
-The Son's lightning would hypothetically be the most powerful lightning in the mythos, and the Daughter is able to block it
-They can see as far as they went to in the past, or in the future
-They are incredible "master of illusions"
SWTOR(G) (Released on December 20, 2011) is the first source to promote Sith Emperor as the most powerful Force-user in the mythos:The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen.
Later on, SWTOR(E) (Co-authored by several writers and released on October 15, 2012) reinforced the aforementioned revelation from the associated source SWTOR(G):
The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed.
SWTCE (Co-authored by several writers and released on December 9, 2008) promoted Darth Sidious as the most powerful practitioner of the dark:The two engaged in a spectacular duel - a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides.
SWDP (Released on January 10, 2012) promotes Darth Plagueis as the most powerful Sith Lord on its backcover:Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived. But could he be the only one who never died?
Even Luke's strength in the Force cannot help. The most powerful Jedi Master in the galaxy can only stand by and watch his wife die. (From SWTNJOS, released in 2002)"Luke Skywalker is still the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy. I think we should assume he has a plan," Jaina said.. (From SWFOTJV)
He's not Satan, he just goes down to the corner and gets Satan's cigarettes.
You got it. And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting of his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor—he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that.
--Taken from Rolling Stone #975
And the Emperor was right. Luke had much power in him. It was raw, unchanneled and untrained, but it was vast. His potential was larger than the Emperor's, larger than Vader's.
--Taken from Shadows of the Empire
The Force was powerful; Vader thought the dark side even more so, but he had never been able to use it to heal his badly burned body to the extent that he wished. That he was alive at all was something of a miracle, but he had somehow failed to master the energies needed for complete regeneration. He believed it was possible; that with sufficient meditation and training, he would someday be able to rebuild himself into the man he once had been. Physically, at least.
He would never go back to what he had been mentally. Weak, foolish, idealistic. Anakin had been much like Luke Skywalker was now. Mere...potential. Yes, the Force was strong in Luke, perhaps stronger than it had been in Anakin. But the boy needed to embrace the dark side, to learn where the real power was, to achieve his true promise. If he did not, the Emperor would destroy Luke. Vader did not want that.
--Taken from Shadows of the Empire
Luke paused, for he saw something else, as well; something he hadn’t seen before in the Emperor. Fear.
Luke saw fear in the Emperor—fear of Luke. Fear of Luke’s power, fear that this power could be turned on him—on the Emperor—in the same way Vader had turned it on Obi-Wan Kenobi. Luke saw this fear in the Emperor—and he knew, now, the odds had shifted slightly. He had glimpsed the Emperor’s nakedest self.
Vader watched Luke. His boy was powerful, stronger than he’d imagined. And still pliable. Not lost yet—either to the sickening, weakly side of the Force, that had to beg for everything it received; or to the Emperor, who feared Luke with reason. There was yet time to take Luke for his own—to retake him. To join with him in dark majesty. To rule the galaxy together. It would only take patience and a little wizardry, to show Luke the exquisite satisfactions of the dark way and to pry him from the Emperor’s terrified clutch. Vader knew Luke had seen it too—the Emperor’s fear. He was a clever boy, young Luke. Vader smile grimly to himself. He was his father’s son.
--Taken from Return of the Jedi
A body more powerful in the Force than Vader, potentially more powerful even than Palpatine. The body of a true hero, beloved by all right-thinking citizens in the galaxy as the very symbol of truth and justice...
He would not simply turn Luke Skywalker to the service of the Dark. Why should he? Luke Skywalker served the Dark already, without ever guessing; he had powers of destruction that humbled even the Death Star. No: Cronal would become Luke Skywalker, and serve the Dark himself.
--Taken from Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor
Luke looked over at us from the small kitchenette and gave us a smile. "Wedge, good to see you again. And you as well, Captain Horn. Can I offer you something to drink?"
"Caf, if you have it." Wedge hid a yawn with the back of his right hand. "You keep it dark enough in here for me to drop off right now."
"Caf it shall be, then." The Jedi Master looked at me and I felt electricity run through his blue-eyed gaze. When we had met before I had felt power in him, but now, after his experiences with the Emperor Reborn, his power had been redoubled.
--Taken from I, Jedi
Brakiss tracked Luke four ways: with the surveillance equipment he had installed all over Telti; with the computer system; with a group of specially designed gladiator droids that silently flanked Luke; and with the Force. His Force sense was the most reliable. Luke's presence felt as if someone had tossed a boulder into the calm pond of Brakiss's world. Although Brakiss had known Luke was coming, he still wasn't prepared for the strength of the disturbance.
--Taken from The New Rebellion
Even Luke's strength in the Force cannot help. The most powerful Jedi Master in the galaxy can only stand by and watch his wife die.
--Taken from The New Jedi Order Sourcebook
By the time of the Battle of Endor, Luke Skywalker has studied some lightsaber technique from Obi-Wan's journal and greatly advanced his abilities. Without a Master, such advancement would be nearly impossible for most, but Skywalker's unparalleled aptitude makes him a match for Darth Vader in their fateful duel onboard the Second Death Star.
But Skywalker's skill at blaster deflection is highly refined, and his lightsaber technique is so superb that he is able to duel the Dark Lord on even footing—and finally able to defeat a man who is a powerful living product of the ancient Jedi sword traditions from time immemorial. Such an achievement with little formal training is a testament to Skywalker's innate abilities and instinctive skill.
--Taken from Insider #62: Fightsaber: Jedi Lightsaber Combat
Luke Skywalker, the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy.
--Taken from Fate of the Jedi: Vortex
Originally posted by Nephthys
His TK is beastly yeah, but its nowhere near 'kill everyone on a planet' level.
Sure but he's got that one god tier ability, and his others are likely true top tier as well. I'm sure you can't say Abeloth doesn't have a single ability that stands out for exmaple, or that the abilities she doesn't show to such an extent are on her city busting level?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Couple things:Ulic-Qel Droma should get a mention in here:
"The spirit of Freedon Nadd appeared before Ulic and proclaimed he would one day be one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history...Ulic went to Cinnagar, presented himself to the Krath, and eventually fulfilled Freedon Nadd's prophecy."
-Power of the Jedi Sourcebook
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
However, keep in mind the following:
Even Ulic Qel-Droma would be envious of Palpatine. He had succeeded where all others had failed in taming the Dark Side.
-Dark Empire Sourcebook
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine."
-Kevin J. Anderson
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
1. He is confirmed superior to any Sith:
"The Son was not a Sith -- his powers existed beyond the domain of the Sith Lords."
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
2. He is immune to any attacks from mortals, the only ones who can challenge him are: Abeloth, The Father, The Daughter, and Anakin Skywalker (prime). Heck, they can casually extinguish lightsabers with a flick of their hand.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
3. He and the Daughter are stated by the Father to destroy the Universe if not in Mortis:
"My children and I can manipulate the Force like no other. Therefore, it was necessary to withdraw from the temporal world and live here as anchorites...You cannot imagine what pain it is to have such love for your children… and realize that they could tear the very fabric of our universe."
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
4. The Mortis family literally has EONS of knowledge on the Force, completely outclassing any Sith Lord, including Vitiate.
From SWTOR(E); about Sith Emperor:
In his relentless pursuit of immortality, the Emperor explored the most sinister, uncharted depths of the dark side.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He creates a Force Storm then does such.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Other notes on them:
-They can change to any shape they want
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
-They can fly faster then ships
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
-They can ONLY be killed if either the Father is killed, or they are stabbed by the Dagger of Mortis.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
-They can casually summon fire around them
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
-The Son's lightning would hypothetically be the most powerful lightning in the mythos, and the Daughter is able to block it
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
-They can see as far as they went to in the past, or in the future
-They are incredible "master of illusions"
This doesn't makes sense to me.
Q: When was this statement made?
Q: Which source?
Provide proof of this statement.
Same as above: Provide proof of this statement.
Hyperbolic claim from The Father.
Their is no concrete evidence of this; just hearsay
Darth Sidious?
Or so is believed; Abeloth was subdued without this dagger, which raises suspicion.
Originally posted by ares834
It's the Father (and perhaps Mortis Anakin Skywalker) with the Son and Daughter coming in second and third. This has been confirmed by the CW tv show which overwrites and C-canon sources.Jacen becoming the most powerful manifestation of the force is mentioned in Essential Guide to the Force.
👆
Abeloth comes next under the Mortis Anchorites; the Star Wars blog claims: "The architects had a stepmother of sorts named Abeloth, a being similar, but not quite as powerful as the Celestials."
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
These are third person limited omniscient. How many damn times do I need to tell you this?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
50 other sources also claim this, so I like how you showed all of Vitiate's above ^ but only one of Sidious's. 😂
Also, no other source complements the accolade Sidious and Yoda received in SWTCE; this accolade is unique for both. Still, this accolade is now under scrutiny due to introduction of Sith Emperor, The Ones (The Father; The Son; The Daughter) and Abeloth.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Then it's stated in the book Palpatine surpasses him (iirc).
However, I do believe that Sidious surpassed Plagueis.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He has more then that:He's not Satan, he just goes down to the corner and gets Satan's cigarettes.
You got it. And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting of his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor—he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that.
--Taken from Rolling Stone #975And the Emperor was right. Luke had much power in him. It was raw, unchanneled and untrained, but it was vast. His potential was larger than the Emperor's, larger than Vader's.
--Taken from Shadows of the EmpireThe Force was powerful; Vader thought the dark side even more so, but he had never been able to use it to heal his badly burned body to the extent that he wished. That he was alive at all was something of a miracle, but he had somehow failed to master the energies needed for complete regeneration. He believed it was possible; that with sufficient meditation and training, he would someday be able to rebuild himself into the man he once had been. Physically, at least.
He would never go back to what he had been mentally. Weak, foolish, idealistic. Anakin had been much like Luke Skywalker was now. Mere...potential. Yes, the Force was strong in Luke, perhaps stronger than it had been in Anakin. But the boy needed to embrace the dark side, to learn where the real power was, to achieve his true promise. If he did not, the Emperor would destroy Luke. Vader did not want that.
--Taken from Shadows of the EmpireLuke paused, for he saw something else, as well; something he hadn’t seen before in the Emperor. Fear.
Luke saw fear in the Emperor—fear of Luke. Fear of Luke’s power, fear that this power could be turned on him—on the Emperor—in the same way Vader had turned it on Obi-Wan Kenobi. Luke saw this fear in the Emperor—and he knew, now, the odds had shifted slightly. He had glimpsed the Emperor’s nakedest self.
Vader watched Luke. His boy was powerful, stronger than he’d imagined. And still pliable. Not lost yet—either to the sickening, weakly side of the Force, that had to beg for everything it received; or to the Emperor, who feared Luke with reason. There was yet time to take Luke for his own—to retake him. To join with him in dark majesty. To rule the galaxy together. It would only take patience and a little wizardry, to show Luke the exquisite satisfactions of the dark way and to pry him from the Emperor’s terrified clutch. Vader knew Luke had seen it too—the Emperor’s fear. He was a clever boy, young Luke. Vader smile grimly to himself. He was his father’s son.
--Taken from Return of the JediA body more powerful in the Force than Vader, potentially more powerful even than Palpatine. The body of a true hero, beloved by all right-thinking citizens in the galaxy as the very symbol of truth and justice...
He would not simply turn Luke Skywalker to the service of the Dark. Why should he? Luke Skywalker served the Dark already, without ever guessing; he had powers of destruction that humbled even the Death Star. No: Cronal would become Luke Skywalker, and serve the Dark himself.
--Taken from Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of MindorLuke looked over at us from the small kitchenette and gave us a smile. "Wedge, good to see you again. And you as well, Captain Horn. Can I offer you something to drink?"
"Caf, if you have it." Wedge hid a yawn with the back of his right hand. "You keep it dark enough in here for me to drop off right now."
"Caf it shall be, then." The Jedi Master looked at me and I felt electricity run through his blue-eyed gaze. When we had met before I had felt power in him, but now, after his experiences with the Emperor Reborn, his power had been redoubled.
--Taken from I, JediBrakiss tracked Luke four ways: with the surveillance equipment he had installed all over Telti; with the computer system; with a group of specially designed gladiator droids that silently flanked Luke; and with the Force. His Force sense was the most reliable. Luke's presence felt as if someone had tossed a boulder into the calm pond of Brakiss's world. Although Brakiss had known Luke was coming, he still wasn't prepared for the strength of the disturbance.
--Taken from The New RebellionEven Luke's strength in the Force cannot help. The most powerful Jedi Master in the galaxy can only stand by and watch his wife die.
--Taken from The New Jedi Order SourcebookBy the time of the Battle of Endor, Luke Skywalker has studied some lightsaber technique from Obi-Wan's journal and greatly advanced his abilities. Without a Master, such advancement would be nearly impossible for most, but Skywalker's unparalleled aptitude makes him a match for Darth Vader in their fateful duel onboard the Second Death Star.
But Skywalker's skill at blaster deflection is highly refined, and his lightsaber technique is so superb that he is able to duel the Dark Lord on even footing—and finally able to defeat a man who is a powerful living product of the ancient Jedi sword traditions from time immemorial. Such an achievement with little formal training is a testament to Skywalker's innate abilities and instinctive skill.
--Taken from Insider #62: Fightsaber: Jedi Lightsaber CombatLuke Skywalker, the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy.
--Taken from Fate of the Jedi: Vortex
I believe that I have adequately covered Luke's position in my first post of this thread.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Why not?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Some Star Wars Insider. Google it.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://starwars.com/explore/encyclopedia/characters/son/ under "Relationships" at "Sith"
In the mysterious realm of Mortis there exists a trio of beings able to wield the Force in ways no known mortals of the galaxy can.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"Overlords"m the fifteenth episode of the Star Wars: The Clone Wars television series' third season.I take it you never seen the Mortis trilogy or read FOTJ. It is not "hyperbolic." It is also mentioned in starwars.com here "Fearing what their power might do to the surrounding galaxy, the Father and his family retreated to the realm of Mortis, a place apart from the everyday reality of mortal life. The Father maintained the balance of the Force between his children, with the goal of ensuring that such equilibrium permeated the cosmos."
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
They were born before 1,000,000 BBY.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
*Force Lightning Storm. And no, the Son.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Abeloth is not a born force-wielder.
So what?
Sounds like a hyperbole.
Not my responsibility; you should do it since you mentioned the statement.
This is what I noticed:
In the mysterious realm of Mortis there exists a trio of beings able to wield the Force in ways no known mortals of the galaxy can.
I know, she was a mortal. One day, she somehow tapped in to the power of the nexuses Font of Power and Pool of Knowledge and became Abeloth.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Meaning any accoaldes that come after him saying that character is the best overwrites Vitiate.
Currently I believe that Sith Emperor is "arguably" the most powerful Force-user in the mythos. At minimum, he should be logically ranked above all other Sith Lords.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So does every Vitiate quote. You still use those.
As far as The Ones are concerned, much of them is hearsay, hyperbole, rumors, their own claims and vice versa. Their is a need of solid documentation of these characters for their proper evaluation.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's already stated Sidious>Exar Kun, so theres no point.
Further supports my point. However did you find what I was referring to?
SWDP also contains some information in this respect:
It had been theorized by Jedi and Sith alike that balance between the light and dark sides was actually under the guidance of a group of discorporate entities—the ones called the Celestials, perhaps—who had merged themselves with the Force thousands of generations earlier, and had continued to guide the fate of the galaxy ever since. In effect, a higher order of intermediaries, whose powers were beyond the understanding of mortal beings. But many Sith viewed the notion with disdain, for the theoretical existence of such a group had little bearing on the goal of making the Force subservient to the will of an enlightened elite. Only the Sith understood that sentient life was on the verge of a transformative leap; that through the manipulation of midi-chlorians—or the overthrow of the Forceful group that supervised them—the divide between organic life and the Force could be bridged, and death could be erased from the continuum.
As evidenced by those few Lords who had managed to perpetuate their spirits after physical death—foremost among them Emperor Vitiate, who was said to have lived a thousand years—the ancient Sith had come halfway across that bridge. But those few had been so focused on worldly power that they had ended up trapping themselves between realms. That they had never provided the Order with guidance from beyond attested to the fact that their influence had been negligible, and had long since faded from the world.
Once again, theories about The Ones are mostly hearsay, rumors, folklore and vice versa as apparent from this revelation. For example: if The Ones really maintained the balance of the Force, Plagueis and Sidious wouldn't have been able to imbalance it.
Plagueis does mentions that The Ones understand the Force in ways unlike any mortal but Sith can be exception. Sith are known to explore the ways of the Force without any hindrances as well, they do test their limits and continue to improve hone their talents further to unlock additional mysteries of the Force with passage of time. Emperor Vitiate seemingly surpassed all Sith in this endeavor but even Plagueis himself doesn't knows the whole truth about Emperor Vitiate because much of his works and accomplishments are/were shrouded in mystery.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Which is why you can't compare what happens to her with the Mortis family.
The Son tapped in to the power of Font of Power. The Daughter tapped in to the power of Pool of Knowledge. Abeloth tapped in to the power of both.
Currently I believe that Sith Emperor is "arguably" the most powerful Force-user in the mythos. At minimum, he should be logically ranked above all other Sith Lords.
Key word is mortal in the statement I mentioned.
However, the mortis family cannot die, besides the ancient sword of destiny.
The Son tapped in to the power of Font of Power. The Daughter tapped in to the power of Pool of Knowledge. Abeloth tapped in to the power of both.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
But it's stated Sidious>Vitiate....I literally do not understand.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate is not immortal, as shown that he can indeed die and get injuried:
-lightning in Revan novel
-giant pillar in TOR
-confirmed death in Plagueis novel
Their is no direct way to harm Vitiate, it is possible to kill his avatars only. At maximum, Vitiate can be trapped in the void on the basis of some ritual or strange method.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
However, the mortis family cannot die, besides the ancient sword of destiny.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yes, but the Daughter and the Son were originally force wielders, Abeloth wasn't even force sensitive. However it should still be noted Abeloth cannot be permanently "killed" without the dagger, but she can still be injured by mortals, unlike the rest of the Mortis.
Well, this is also a theory that remains to be tested.
Nowhere this have been stated, Sidious's accolades are logically valid for content at the time of their introduction
Their is no way direct to harm Vitiate, it is possible to kill his avatars only. At maximum, Vitiate can be trapped in the void on the basis of some ritual or strange method.
The Son could casually disarm Revan, Vitiate had to actually fight against him. That's the difference. And that's a big difference.