I feel as though Dooku's lightning is being very much lowballed in this thread, so I'll post some of his FL feats.
In the cut scene (at about 7:31) Dooku's lightning blasts through metal, ripping a huge metal tank from a platform in which it had supported.
YouTube video
The impact of Dooku's redirected lightning causes a pretty good size explosion (about 3:28).
YouTube video
While drugged and blind, Dooku overpowers Ventress and two nightsister simultaneously with lightning (about 3:09).
YouTube video
With a single blast of lightning, coming from just one hand, Dooku Knocks Sora bulq unconscious instantly.
Dooku generates a lightning storm, which killed a group of Kiffar warriors.
Blasting apart metal structures, KO'ing other force users instantly with single blasts, causing explosions, overpowering multiple force users at once, wiping out small armies of warriors with lightning storms, etc...why is Dooku's usage of lightning being downplayed? Not only is Dooku's lightning very potent, but he's also shown to be very refined with this ability. And that's just his lightning feats alone, not even touching on his TK or saber ability, both of which he also excels at.
Sidious lightning is far more intense than Dooku's, yes, but that's irrelevant, considering that the lightning feats that Neph listed for both Nox and the wrath are not beyond Dooku's lightning feats; in fact, they seem quite comparable in that area.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I feel as though Dooku's lightning is being very much lowballed in this thread, so I'll post some of his FL feats.In the cut scene (at about 7:31) Dooku's lightning blasts through metal, ripping a huge metal tank from a platform in which it had supported.
YouTube video
I'm not even certain that's Dooku's lightning. Watching the video, as soon as the light in the center of the platform appears, lightning starts spiraling around the platform independently of Dooku. And the tank does not blow up, theres some minor explosions and it falls.
Besides which, this is something that Thanaton performed 40 years before TOR, clearly well before his prime.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The impact of Dooku's redirected lightning causes a pretty good size explosion (about 3:28).
YouTube video
Not nearly as large as the one Nox created here:
3.20.
Which is before Nox gains the power of 5 other Force Masters.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
While drugged and blind, Dooku overpowers Ventress and two nightsister simultaneously with lightning (about 3:09).
YouTube video
I gave my opinion on that on the last page. Dooku does not overpower them at all, he catches Ventress with her lightsaber out of position and off guard.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
With a single blast of lightning, coming from just one hand, Dooku Knocks Sora bulq unconscious instantly.
Decent.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Dooku generates a lightning storm, which killed a group of Kiffar warriors.
Your definition of lightning storm differs significantly from mine. All I see is standard Force Lightning. Which again is merely decent.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Blasting apart metal structures, KO'ing other force users instantly with single blasts, causing explosions, overpowering multiple force users at once, wiping out small armies of warriors with lightning storms, etc...why is Dooku's usage of lightning being downplayed? Not only is Dooku's lightning very potent, but he's also shown to be very refined with this ability. And that's just his lightning feats alone, not even touching on his TK or saber ability, both of which he also excels at.Sidious lightning is far more intense than Dooku's, yes, but that's irrelevant, considering that the lightning feats that Neph listed for both Nox and the wrath are not beyond Dooku's lightning feats; in fact, they seem quite comparable in that area.
Nox's lightning is far above Dooku's.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I feel as though Dooku's lightning is being very much lowballed in this thread, so I'll post some of his FL feats.In the cut scene (at about 7:31) Dooku's lightning blasts through metal, ripping a huge metal tank from a platform in which it had supported.
YouTube videoThe impact of Dooku's redirected lightning causes a pretty good size explosion (about 3:28).
YouTube videoWhile drugged and blind, Dooku overpowers Ventress and two nightsister simultaneously with lightning (about 3:09).
YouTube videoWith a single blast of lightning, coming from just one hand, Dooku Knocks Sora bulq unconscious instantly.
Dooku generates a lightning storm, which killed a group of Kiffar warriors.
Blasting apart metal structures, KO'ing other force users instantly with single blasts, causing explosions, overpowering multiple force users at once, wiping out small armies of warriors with lightning storms, etc...why is Dooku's usage of lightning being downplayed? Not only is Dooku's lightning very potent, but he's also shown to be very refined with this ability. And that's just his lightning feats alone, not even touching on his TK or saber ability, both of which he also excels at.
Sidious lightning is far more intense than Dooku's, yes, but that's irrelevant, considering that the lightning feats that Neph listed for both Nox and the wrath are not beyond Dooku's lightning feats; in fact, they seem quite comparable in that area.
Excellent post.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not even certain that's Dooku's lightning.
I'm pretty sure it is.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Watching the video, as soon as the light in the center of the platform appears, lightning starts spiraling around the platform independently of Dooku.
Not sure how light would generate a bunch of lightning, unless it was some rare game mechanic force ability of Dooku's. Dooku was spamming lightning left and right, and it goes to the cut scene right after Kenobi tells him that he can't defeat both of them. Seems like Dooku intentionally destroyed the platform in order to escape. But you might be right, as he did look surprised after the tank tore off.
My question would be where did the light come from, and why did it randomly appear out of nowhere?
Originally posted by Nephthys
And the tank does not blow up, theres some minor explosions and it falls.
The explosion was powerful enough to break off the huge tank, destroying metal.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Besides which, this is something that Thanaton performed 40 years before TOR, clearly well before his prime.
Can you provide the video?
Also, how powerful was his lightning in his prime?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Not nearly as large as the one Nox created here:3.20.
Actually, Dooku's looked larger.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Which is before Nox gains the power of 5 other Force Masters.
How powerful did the masters make her? What are her feats after her gain? Wasn't she defeated by a single weakened force user by that point? Are we to assume that a weakened force equaled 6 force masters, or should we question the amp the masters gave her. That's why I'd like more feats on the matter.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I gave my opinion on that on the last page. Dooku does not overpower them at all, he catches Ventress with her lightsaber out of position and off guard.
He still overpowered them, holding them in the air against their will while electrocuting them. If they weren't overpowered, then they'd had shrugged off the attack as Maul did against Mighella. They didn't have the best defense put up, no, but they all agreed that they were defeated because Dooku was too powerful, not because they were caught off-guard. The feat also showed good precision on Dooku's part.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Your definition of lightning storm differs significantly from mine. All I see is standard Force Lightning. Which again is merely decent.
A lightning storm to me is lightning that covers large areas, capable of taking out entire groups.
What is a lightning storm to you? Do they have to involve clouds like the one Vitiate produced against the four jedi strike team?
I don't care how flashy lightning looks. I go by the damage it can cause. Palpatine's uses of what you refer to as "standard lightning" is some of the most intense displays of lightning in the mythos.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nox's lightning is far above Dooku's.
Maybe, but you haven't proved it. I went through your respect thread, and I only found two videos with lightning feats. One video had him/her causing an explosion no bigger than the one Dooku caused on Geonosis. The other video had him/her blasting a rock, which you claimed she destroyed, which she really didn't destroy.
Originally posted by Nephthys
[b]Destroys rock again with lightning15.35. This is a bit bigger than that plinth, so notable imo.[/B]
Didn't look destroyed to me. Looked exactly the same after she blasted it.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Thanks.Have you played the game of the first video I posted? Would you happen to know if it was the result of Dooku's lightning that broke off the large tank?
Neph's face right now.
I don't know, but that seems like the most likely option. I mean why else would they even bother including the lightning effect.
As I said earlier, Dooku wasn't capable of dominating Ventress like that when they actually fought in CW. So its clearly not something he's capable of normally.
Hell, in their fight Dooku barely/didn't manage to overpower Ventress with lightning. Which just shows I'm right about him beating the Nightsisters with it.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I'm pretty sure it is.
Actually, it isn't.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not sure how light would generate a bunch of lightning, unless it was some rare game mechanic force ability of Dooku's. Dooku was spamming lightning left and right, and it goes to the cut scene right after Kenobi tells him that he can't defeat both of them. Seems like Dooku intentionally destroyed the platform in order to escape. But you might be right, as he did look surprised after the tank tore off.My question would be where did the light come from, and why did it randomly appear out of nowhere?
Watch the video at 4.30. Its not just a platform, which is why it has fuel tanks in the first place. It generates lightning when it shoots the beam out of the center of the platform. During the fight in the video Dooku is hit by the beam and damaged, so its obviously not just light, its some sort of energy beam. Whatever the hell the machines are under it seem to be generating the lightning. Possibly from damage? IDK what it is, who cares. So no, its not Dooku's lightning destroying the fuel tanks.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Can you provide the video?Also, how powerful was his lightning in his prime?
This is Thanaton having a vision of his future self:
In his prime he could one-shot himself with lightning. Thanaton can also create huge lightning storms, fly with lightning and create a maelstrom of swirling Force energy and lightning powerful to crack the ground from the sheer force of it striking Nox. Prime Thanaton is referred to as a 'supremely powerful Sith'.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Actually, Dooku's looked larger.
Well, I disagree. That pillar it strikes is rather large, if you look at the cutscene fully, nearly twice as tall as Khem by my reckoning.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
How powerful did the masters make her? What are her feats after her gain? Wasn't she defeated by a single weakened force user by that point? Are we to assume that a weakened force equaled 6 force masters, or should we question the amp the masters gave her. That's why I'd like more feats on the matter.
Nox wields the "combined power" of herself, 4 Sith Lords and one Voss Mystic (about on par with a powerful Sith Lord). So its a pretty freaking size-able boost.
For a comparison, even with two Sith Lords bound to her, Thanaton still one-shot Nox at the start of Act 2. By the end of the game where Nox wields the combined power of 6 Sith Lords, Nox 'utterly destroys' him in a humiliating duel.
No, she wasn't beaten by a weakened force user. What do you mean?
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He still overpowered them, holding them in the air against their will while electrocuting them. If they weren't overpowered, then they'd had shrugged off the attack as Maul did against Mighella. They didn't have the best defense put up, no, but they all agreed that they were defeated because Dooku was too powerful, not because they were caught off-guard. The feat also showed good precision on Dooku's part.
Um, its pretty hard to try to resist when you're already being electrocuted. Force Lightning is incredibly painful and debilitating, the Nightsisters wouldn't be capable of forming a defense. And even then, its not known if the Nightsisters actually know how to defend against lightning. So perhaps they agreed they were defeated because they had no way to resist Dooku's lightning.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
A lightning storm to me is lightning that covers large areas, capable of taking out entire groups.What is a lightning storm to you? Do they have to involve clouds like the one Vitiate produced against the four jedi strike team?
I don't care how flashy lightning looks. I go by the damage it can cause. Palpatine's uses of what you refer to as "standard lightning" is some of the most intense displays of lightning in the mythos.
Its something like this:
7.50. Thats Thanaton btw, the Sith Nox pwned.
Dooku's lightning didn't cover that large of an area. He took out 4 people standing right next to each other? Yeah, not that large. Its not a lightning storm.
Palpatines lightning might be powerful, yeah. But if its just a mid-sized blast from his hand its not a Lightning Storm either. I'm not saying Palpatine can't do a lightning storm, he can, but he often goes for something more focused than that.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Maybe, but you haven't proved it. I went through your respect thread, and I only found two videos with lightning feats. One video had him/her causing an explosion no bigger than the one Dooku caused on Geonosis. The other video had him/her blasting a rock, which you claimed she destroyed, which she really didn't destroy.
Theres also her destroying a rock on Alderaan. All of which done without the aid of 5 powerful Force spirits. Nox's base lightning already surpasses Dooku's. With the extra power from 5 Force spirits, Nox will blow Dooku away entirely.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Didn't look destroyed to me. Looked exactly the same after she blasted it.
Well then you're obviously not looking. The entire top half was obliterated, everything upwards of the crossed arms. Which is a sizable chunk of rock, estimated at about the size of a car. If you look earlier in the video, say from 15.15 onwards, you can see it in comparison to the Nox's size.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Hell, in their fight Dooku barely/didn't manage to overpower Ventress with lightning. Which just shows I'm right about him beating the Nightsisters with it.
You need to rewatch. Dooku disarms her with TK then drops her with lightning. Ventress is fast and agile enough to hold him off for a bit in sabers, but once he focuses his powers on her, she's just as defenseless as Kenobi is.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Possibly from damage? IDK what it is, who cares.
lol
What do you mean "who cares?" I care, of course. It's crucial to my argument. For all I know, it could have been some lightning technique. I don't see how it would be damaged, unless Dooku's lightning is strong enough to damage it, as the platform doesn't look like it was built to be easily damaged. Furthermore, the light didn't appear until they were away from it. But as of now, I'll drop this until I'm able to find out more on it.
#conceded (for now)
Originally posted by Nephthys
How did it look before and after? I just see an explosion that looks pretty damaging, but can't quite tell how damaging. Did it explode? TOR comics, right? Can I get the issue #?
Originally posted by Nephthys
This is Thanaton having a vision of his future self:In his prime he could one-shot himself with lightning.
Visions are often very vague and symbolic. The vision could have been an exaggerated way of telling him that he'd become more powerful than he already is. Furthermore, as you said with Ventress and the nightsisters, he doesn't even look like he attempted to block it or fight back. He didn't even look like he expected it.
In the same way you say prime Thanaton can one-shot himself, I can just as easily say Sidious can one-shot Yoda. Actually my claim can come easier given that it actually happened, was not a vision, and considering Yoda was actually there to fight and attempted to block the attack with one hand. Would you agree to that?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Prime Thanaton is referred to as a 'supremely powerful Sith'.
Dooku's lightning was capable of putting Savage down, causing Savage extreme pain. Considering that Savage's body can tank multiple blaster bolts at once without causing him much pain, I'd say that would mean Dooku's lightning is quite intense. Also, Dooku was referred to as "one of the most power jedi in the orders 25,000 history, and an even more powerful sith lord."
Even if Thanaton has the edge in lightning, there are other areas to cover, such as TK and saber ability. And I don't see Thanaton winning with lightning alone. If Kenobi can block lightning powerful enough to cause explosions, then Dooku should logically be capable of blocking far greater lightning, considering he is far stronger and a much more powerful force user than Kenobi, is an expert on that field, and has more ways in which to block lightning.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well, I disagree.
I checked again and it did appear to be bigger, but it also happened closer, and the lightning was more prolonged. Even after the blast was shown to us, the lightning was still being fired. Dooku's redirected attack was short, and it blasted the ceiling which was pretty high up.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nox wields the "combined power" of herself, 4 Sith Lords and one Voss Mystic (about on par with a powerful Sith Lord). So its a pretty freaking size-able boost.
How does the boost manifest itself, though?
Originally posted by Nephthys
For a comparison, even with two Sith Lords bound to her, Thanaton still one-shot Nox at the start of Act 2. By the end of the game where Nox wields the combined power of 6 Sith Lords, Nox 'utterly destroys' him in a humiliating duel.
So Thanaton is capable of taking her out with one-shot even with two sith lords bound to her, but with all six sith lords, she's capable of humiliating him in a duel. It sounds similar to Dooku being able to one-shot Anakin in AOTC to being humiliated by him in a duel in ROTS when Anakin taps into more of his potential and after getting angry/tapping into the dark side and increasing his physicality to such an extent that Dooku can't handle.
How good was Thanaton with a saber? Would you place him on Dooku's level in that area. My point is, just because the few extra sith lords gave her enough power to handle Thanaton's power in order close the gap and defeat Thanaton in a duel doesn't necessarily mean it would give her an edge over Dooku in a saber duel, unless Thanaton rivals Dooku in sabers, otherwise that would be ABC logic. And I think you'd be hard pressed to prove that just anyone is on par with one of the most skilled duelist in galactic history. Dooku outdueled Ventress and two other nightsisters while drugged and blind, and has dominated both Anakin and Kenobi at the same time in their duel in season 6, even treating Kenobi as a non-factor.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, she wasn't beaten by a weakened force user. What do you mean?
Who defeated her then? I thought I read someone argue that some jedi defeated her while injured or weakened. It was some jedi who was being compared to Yoda.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nightsisters wouldn't be capable of forming a defense. And even then, its not known if the Nightsisters actually know how to defend against lightning. So perhaps they agreed they were defeated because they had no way to resist Dooku's lightning.
Doubt it. Nightsisters specialize in various forms of FL. Talzin referred to the two nightsister who accompanied Ventress as some of the greatest warriors of her clan. You'd think force using warrior witches would know of a defense against force powers that witches specialize in. Remember: nightsisters are all witches.
Regardless, force using warriors naturally have resistance to force attacks, otherwise they'd be demolished. No ordinary human/humanoid can tank energy attacks capable of causing explosions without being severely injured, unless they have the durability to take it, and durability is something the force provides.
It's like saying the jedi who were incapable of defending against Vitiate's lightning weren't overpowered. Some of the jedi didn't even attempt to block Vitiate's attack with their saber, IIRC. Were they not overpowered? Perhaps Vitiate's attack was too fast for some of them to defend against, as Dooku's was against Ventress and her team.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Its something like this:7.50.
Ok, so he can summon lightning from the sky. Sedriss (Palpatine's adept) can do that, and he's not nearly as powerful as Dooku. Who cares where the lightning comes from?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats Thanaton btw, the Sith Nox pwned.
In a saber duel, right?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku's lightning didn't cover that large of an area. He took out 4 people standing right next to each other?
Dooku can still spread his lightning to target more than one person. There were more warriors than what was shown in that single panel, and they weren't exactly hugging each other.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Palpatines lightning might be powerful, yeah. But if its just a mid-sized blast from his hand its not a Lightning Storm either.
Again, what difference does it make? If Sidious can spread his lightning to wipe out a room full of storm troopers, then I consider that a storm of lightning, regardless of whether it comes from his hands or not. Palpatine's mid-sized blasts of lightning are some of the most potent we see, which is what matters most when comparing lightning's potency.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Theres also her destroying a rock on Alderaan.
I'd say if Dooku can produce enough energy to cause an explosion from just one hand, then he can destroy a rock. I find it more impressive that Dooku can knock Sora unconscious with a single blast of lightning (using one hand) than I do Nox destroying a rock, especially considering it required no effort from Dooku.
Originally posted by Nephthys
With the extra power from 5 Force spirits, Nox will blow Dooku away entirely.
What, she's going to blast him away with lightning? He has no defense against lightning? I mean, he did casually block his own lightning attack (which was intense enough to cause an explosion) with one hand. I'm pretty sure with more effort he can defend against a more powerful attack. Since you haven't provided how powerful her lightning increased with the boost, I'm not going to assume she'll just blow Dooku away.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well then you're obviously not looking.
Yeah, I see it now. Maybe it's because the explosion didn't show any rubble or debris. It just looked like a blast that quickly vanished. But looking at it again, the top part did vanish with the blast, almost as if it teleported rather than blow up. The visuals to these cutscenes are terrible.
I cannot judge this fight as I have no knowledge of the TOR opponents but if they have no feats that match collapsing temples via the force cracking stone with the force of their blows moving so fast they created blurs creating afterimages with their blades then I'd say neither can beat Anakin or Dooku.
Team 1 should win this. As Lord Stark has already pointed out Dooku has stomped characters like Ventress and Sora Bulq, both of whom I'd place on a tier similar to Thanaton. And Anakin seems to have an advantage over the Wrath.