Blue Marvel vs Citizen Steel

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Lol.. Aight fine let's have it your way. They fought, BM won, it was a clos fight. Ok.. Now. Ultimately what did you take away from that fight? Lemme guess... That BM is a force to be reckoned with seeing as how the writer has Namor mention BM in the same breath as two true top tier brikcs like Hulk and Thor. Amirite? Now let's move on.

Basically that BM is somewhere in the range of Namor, Thor and Hulk. Simple as that.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Because Galan and Abhi agreeing it was PIS does not make it PIS. Superior control you say. So tell me how did she beat the aliens? See where I'm getting at? What we do know is that collectively they saved the planet which suggest that they beat the Qorathi as a team, but individually we have CS basically losing to one of them.

Notice the smiley face. No in reality I have them at or around the same level.

If a character who has shown to take shots from superior foes and was fine...yes that's PIS. It could be argued that perhaps the aliens were top-tier themselves to explain that showing, but you argued they weren't. Plus considering that team only CS and PG would only have a prayer of taking them on, really the options are limited. The team was fairly weak (CS, Atom Smasher and PG being the only power hitters)

So thus, as per the rules of the board "At times, for the sake of the plot, characters that are immensely more powerful than their opponent will "job" to carry on the plot of the story, even though the characters powers and history would clearly show that they are more than capable of destroying their opponent. For this reason we have a No PIS Rule. This rule prohibits the use of such instances of PIS from being used as evidence in debates. "

Gotcha

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I guess you didn't get my point in the "guesstimation". 🙁
The point was if you were going to guesstimate, at least stick closer to the only things shown and stated on panel. Basically similar to mine. 😉

I have been, but think we should probably just end our debate soon as I don't see use changing each other's opinions.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Really? You know how many times a character blurts "ugghhs" and "ahhhs" which end up being irrelevant? What I see is you creating something that is not there and like I said petty. You even went as far as to describe that fight as "not being good for Marvel" and chose to use petty reasoning like the one's you are using. That is why I even bothered to call you out on it. He was fighting a whole team which consisted of the Avengers's best at that time for crying out loud. And yet you try to downplay it with such reasoning? Come the phukk on...

You know how many times it's not. Was he doing it for their confidence then? It wasn't...he should have smoked them seeing as how well he did against Sentry. Namor who basically fought the same people did basically the same. Never said it was a low showing as even at the bottom of the scans still called him top-tier. Nor did I claim anyone was going to beat him just they hurt them and that was it....again Namor did the same, and did better against the entire team.

Again downplay? Where did I do that? I said he got hurt...which he did. Out of everyone Ms.Marvel I thought was the most silly hurting him as she is around class 30ish. However, he could have done so much more...but didn't. That's not guestmation that's facts and that's what we actually saw in the scans. If you think Sentry was dominating and controlling Namor and thus superior then you can't say the Avengers weren't doing the same to Marvel. Simple as that. (Namor fought the same members sans Ms.Marvel)

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
This is too much. No. Dominance is not one completely brutalizing another. Dominance is when you assert control over another which Sentry clearly had over Namor throughout as was shown on panel. How you think Namor was not on the losing end of that fight is beyond me.

Considering I said Sentry had control and did look better with what we saw a few times now I think your only reading what you want to read.

Yes he had control, but didn't do anything with it as he didn't cause any damage or cause him to slow down. Do you deny that? Do you also deny we only saw glimpses of the longer fight? and do you deny the fact Namor wasn't defeated and was still ready to fight? As I said you don't just read a paragraph to understand a whole book. We know for a fact Namor hung with Sentry for a very long time.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Suuuuuure and yet you claim I was misleading, but I actually provided context. You on the other hand....did not....twice

Neglecting to mention Anti-Man was weakning when he over-powered Anti-Man is leaving out a large amount of context 😬

Again you still didn't include the page before the fight where it mentions it was working and Anti-Man screaming out in pain....yeah...clearly laughable 🙄 Why you keep asking if I want the scan is silly as clearly I have the comic and have been providing the scans

Yeah let's show how the Avengers did against Anti-man in issue #5 which was much more stronger....wow much better then in the #1.

1. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/albm_05_021_zps5a1a6e9f.jpg
2. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/albm_05_022_zps9cf8f865.jpg
3. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/albm_05_023_zps55dcdea3.jpg
4. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/albm_05_024_zps9852510a.jpg
5. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/albm_05_025_zps140e28a9.jpg
6. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/albm_05_026_zps7ce7a881.jpg
7. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/albm_05_027_zpseed8e9ca.jpg

Notice Marvel's energy synching field was still going even when he charged him in a bloodlust mode. In space he instantly dissipated him without much issue. So the very "logical conjecture" would be the synch was still going on, he just couldn't dissipate him. So since he did start the sync and we have confirmation it was working there would be a power transfer as you know, because their one and the same...and that's why sync means.

Seriously dude... You are reaching now. It's only making your argument look really foolish. He attempted a synch twice. The first one failed and the second one worked. Simple. You saying that he had an "energy synching field" is lulzworthy. When he glows blue, it doesn't always mean he is in "energy synching mode". I mean come on. 😆
I guess he has one of his patented "energy synching fields" here against KH too right?

Or maybe here against SHuma? 😂
http://s9.postimg.org/lb98oqinz/Mighty_Avengers_2013_003_006.jpg

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
The Avengers doing better? Are you serious. They had Reed with his tech, added She hulk, and had Blue Marvel for crying out loud again. Geez.... And how is it neglecting when he was not weakened. Did you see how his anti-matter energies were engulfing the whole planet?

Seriously dude... You are reaching now. It's only making your argument look really foolish. He attempted a synch twice. The first one failed and the second one worked. Simple. You saying that he had an "energy synching field" is lulzworthy. When he glows blue, it doesn't always mean he is in "energy synching mode". I mean come on. 😆
I guess he has one of his patented "energy synching fields" here against KH too right?

Or maybe here against SHuma? 😂
http://s9.postimg.org/lb98oqinz/Mighty_Avengers_2013_003_006.jpg

They sure were there, but guess what? They didn't get dominated as in the first issue even against a more powerful Anti-Man. Again that's what the scans show, not an assumption. Did the team look better then in #1? Sure did. Did they have more prep? Sure did. However, doesn't change the fact they were in more control then in #1

Sure did see it, but guess who is also anti-matter powered? Blue Marvel...which as stated Anti-Man and him are the same and we already got confirmation they were synching. Again do you know what synch means? Me thinks not.

Right right right, you know how he describes how he needs to synch and then shot a blast to dissipate him? He only did the final blast in space. Let's also ignore the fact he instantly dissipated him in space in less time then he did on earth when on earth they said it was working? Oh yes....silly me for thinking the synch was still working (which was confirmed it was working) and that's why he needed less time to implode him. Again do you know what the work synch means? Did we get confirmation it was working? Yep. Did we get confirmation it stopped working? Nope.

You do realize him turning white is him activating his anti-matter powers right? You know anti-matter that linked anti-man and him together? So him activating it would obviously enable a connection. He couldn't make a connection with the others, as you know...he doesn't have a connection with them. As he said he needed to synch his energy with Anti-Man, and how would he do that without activating his own energy? He couldn't. Simple stuff

Originally posted by -K-M-
Basically that BM is somewhere in the range of Namor, Thor and Hulk. Simple as that.

Originally posted by -K-M-

If a character who has shown to take shots from superior foes and was fine...yes that's PIS. It could be argued that perhaps the aliens were top-tier themselves to explain that showing, but you argued they weren't. Plus considering that team only CS and PG would only have a prayer of taking them on, really the options are limited. The team was fairly weak (CS, Atom Smasher and PG being the only power hitters)

So thus, as per the rules of the board "At times, for the sake of the plot, characters that are immensely more powerful than their opponent will "job" to carry on the plot of the story, even though the characters powers and history would clearly show that they are more than capable of destroying their opponent. For this reason we have a No PIS Rule. This rule prohibits the use of such instances of PIS from being used as evidence in debates. "

Gotcha

Originally posted by -K-M-

I have been, but think we should probably just end our debate soon as I don't see use changing each other's opinions.

You know how many times it's not. Was he doing it for their confidence then? It wasn't...he should have smoked them seeing as how well he did against Sentry. Namor who basically fought the same people did basically the same. Never said it was a low showing as even at the bottom of the scans still called him top-tier. Nor did I claim anyone was going to beat him just they hurt them and that was it....again Namor did the same, and did better against the entire team.

Again downplay? Where did I do that? I said he got hurt...which he did. Out of everyone Ms.Marvel I thought was the most silly hurting him as she is around class 30ish. However, he could have done so much more...but didn't. That's not guestmation that's facts and that's what we actually saw in the scans. If you think Sentry was dominating and controlling Namor and thus superior then you can't say the Avengers weren't doing the same to Marvel. Simple as that. (Namor fought the same members sans Ms.Marvel)

See now you're changing your tune. You tried your best to play up trivial things in that fight even though in the end it was a showing only top tiers can accomplish all in attempt to downplay.

I never said that they were not dominating. Show me where I said that. Did you see me deny the fact that BM was KO'd in the end by that group? smh.

Originally posted by -K-M-

Considering I said Sentry had control and did look better with what we saw a few times now I think your only reading what you want to read.

Yes he had control, but didn't do anything with it as he didn't cause any damage or cause him to slow down. Do you deny that? Do you also deny we only saw glimpses of the longer fight? and do you deny the fact Namor wasn't defeated and was still ready to fight? As I said you don't just read a paragraph to understand a whole book. We know for a fact Namor hung with Sentry for a very long time.

Originally posted by -K-M-
They sure were there, but guess what? They didn't get dominated as in the first issue even against a more powerful Anti-Man. Again that's what the scans show, not an assumption. Did the team look better then in #1? Sure did. Did they have more prep? Sure did. However, doesn't change the fact they were in more control then in #1

Originally posted by -K-M-
Sure did see it, but guess who is also anti-matter powered? Blue Marvel...which as stated Anti-Man and him are the same and we already got confirmation they were synching. Again do you know what synch means? Me thinks not.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Right right right, you know how he describes how he needs to synch and then shot a blast to dissipate him? He only did the final blast in space. Let's also ignore the fact he instantly dissipated him in space in less time then he did on earth when on earth they said it was working? Oh yes....silly me for thinking the synch was still working (which was confirmed it was working) and that's why he needed less time to implode him. Again do you know what the work synch means? Did we get confirmation it was working? Yep. Did we get confirmation it stopped working? Nope.

Originally posted by -K-M-

You do realize him turning white is him activating his anti-matter powers right? You know anti-matter that linked anti-man and him together? So him activating it would obviously enable a connection. He couldn't make a connection with the others, as you know...he doesn't have a connection with them. As he said he needed to synch his energy with Anti-Man, and how would he do that without activating his own energy? He couldn't. Simple stuff

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
So Thor getting KO'd by less than Skyfathers or Abstracts is PIS right? You see, there is a problem when you bring PIS into question. Tell me who has CS beaten. What else besides what has been shown in this thread can lead someone to believe that he can routinely contend with the likes top tier bricks? In here we take averages. To you it is automatically PIS when he gets beat by a seemingly strong enough alien and Mammoth just because he knocked down Gog and tanked then knocked down herald Gog. Right? Now lets get the crux of the matter. Tell me in what part of CS's resume other than those 2 showings solidly puts him amongst the cream of the crop when it comes to top tier bricks.

Nope I don't think he is at skyfather levels and I STILL include the alien fight to get an average. However, that showing becomes diffucult to guage as the only scenes we saw of that alien in was him beating CS and then PG carrying two of the aliens away. Nothing in between. Said this all earlier. Mammoth fight is far game, at first I think it was the outlier, but that was before I found out about the alien scene which did not paint a good picture at first, but then there is no context for that. Regadless being beaten to near death is never a good showing and I don't believe the alien was Gog or Magog level. If alien scene didn't happen then I wouldn't have put much stock into Mammoth as his average was above that showing. Now with the alien it becomes murky.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
But it's so much fun.

See now you're changing your tune. You tried your best to play up trivial things in that fight even though in the end it was a showing only top tiers can accomplish. All in attempt to downplay.

I never said that they were not dominating. Show me where I said that. Did you see me deny the fact that BM was KO'd in the end by that group? smh.

No I have remained consistent and say MANY times it was not meant to be a low showing, just that he got hurt by them and he did. You jumped to conclusions and I said my point several times but it was in one ear and out the other. Even said the reason the Avengers fight was split up as Sentry told them to stop fighting so he could go one on one. I copied the scan how the Avengers part ended into the Sentry fight portion to show the entire context and the timeline between the fight.

Nope, but you were all upset that I said he hurt him...which he did. I made no mention if Iron Man, Ms.Marvel, Ares etc could beat him solo (never said that or think that), but seeing as CS and BM don't have many appearances you show everything they have done. Getting hurt by Ms.Marvel looked bad, others are understandable. However, as I said right below the scans he was top tier. As you were going about Sentry showing more control over Namor (which I agreed with several times) that small exchange of Ms.Marvel, Wonder Man, Iron Man and Ares wasn't great for him. That's why I posted the Sentry fight right after and right below that said he was top tier. We even have pretty good comparison even with Namor fighting that Avengers team in attempt to somewhat get a gauge

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I am only gong by what's on panel. Why in the heck are you bringing up things that are irrelevant? Red herring much?
So now you admit Sentry was in control? So what are you trying to argue here?

Ummmm...I said Sentry was in control and looked better in the parts of the fight we saw SEVERAL TIMES NOW! Like I said, you are only reading what you want to read.

Again was what we saw on-panel the entire fight? Yes or No? Was Namor hurt or close to being KO'ed? Yes or no? Did we see Namor hang with Sentry even when Sentry was in control for a long period of time? Sure did. Undebatable.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Dude they had prep and added Mr. Fantastic, She Hulk, and an anti-matter powerhouse in BM. But guess what? They still all got overpowered by a seemingly even more powerful Anti-Man. You can't compare that two. To do so would only make you look foolish as if you have not done so already.

Ummmm did you miss the part where I said they did have prep? but they still had more control. You tried to do a comparison between the fight between #1 and #5. If you weren't disregard that then. That was my point ou can't do that and they were actually doing better against a stronger Anti-Man.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17

You are not making anymore sense. 🙁

Simple...synching (which was confirmed was working) harmonzies their energy together basically making them reach an equilibrium. We got confirmation it was working and no one said it stopped working. After he got the synch he was then supposed to release the plasma blast which he only did it in space. He also did that quicker then he did on earth indicating the connection was still established as he was able to do it easier.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Ever heard of the hero rising to the occasion? Or maybe the hero having dynamic strength and power to save the day. Or better yet the hero no longer holding back and is willing to kill his best friend to save the world? Was is the keyword. Then he blasted all of them off anyway.

Holy assumptions, also why "was"? Did they say the synch stop anywhere? Nope.

Considering he wanted to disobey the Avengers and do it on Earth he was fully prepared to kill his friend even before bloodlust mode.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17

Concession accepted. 👆

Oh yes, the tactic of having "no real answer and pretend you won" move

How do you think they would synch their anti-matter energies? Oh probably by using it would be by guess. He had full intent on doing it and did the "connection" and dissipation far quicker in space then he did on earth.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Nope I don't think he is at skyfather levels and I STILL include the alien fight to get an average. However, that showing becomes diffucult to guage as the only scenes we saw of that alien in was him beating CS and then PG carrying two of the aliens away. Nothing in between. Said this all earlier. Mammoth fight is far game, at first I think it was the outlier, but that was before I found out about the alien scene which did not paint a good picture at first, but then there is no context for that. Regadless being beaten to near death is never a good showing and I don't believe the alien was Gog or Magog level. If alien scene didn't happen then I wouldn't have put much stock into Mammoth as his average was above that showing. Now with the alien it becomes murky.

Originally posted by -K-M-

No I have remained consistent and say MANY times it was not meant to be a low showing, just that he got hurt by them and he did. You jumped to conclusions and I said my point several times but it was in one ear and out the other. Even said the reason the Avengers fight was split up as Sentry told them to stop fighting so he could go one on one. I copied the scan how the Avengers part ended into the Sentry fight portion to show the entire context and the timeline between the fight..

Originally posted by -K-M-
Nope, but you were all upset that I said he hurt him...which he did. I made no mention if Iron Man, Ms.Marvel, Ares etc could beat him solo (never said that or think that), but seeing as CS and BM don't have many appearances you show everything they have done. Getting hurt by Ms.Marvel looked bad, others are understandable. However, as I said right below the scans he was top tier. As you were going about Sentry showing more control over Namor (which I agreed with several times) that small exchange of Ms.Marvel, Wonder Man, Iron Man and Ares wasn't great for him. That's why I posted the Sentry fight right after and right below that said he was top tier. We even have pretty good comparison even with Namor fighting that Avengers team in attempt to somewhat get a gauge.

Originally posted by -K-M-

Ummmm...I said Sentry was in control and looked better in the parts of the fight we saw SEVERAL TIMES NOW! Like I said, you are only reading what you want to read.

Again was what we saw on-panel the entire fight? Yes or No? Was Namor hurt or close to being KO'ed? Yes or no? Did we see Namor hang with Sentry even when Sentry was in control for a long period of time? Sure did. Undebatable.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Ummmm did you miss the part where I said they did have prep? but they still had more control. You tried to do a comparison between the fight between #1 and #5. If you weren't disregard that then. That was my point ou can't do that and they were actually doing better against a stronger Anti-Man.

Originally posted by -K-M-

Simple...synching (which was confirmed was working) harmonzies their energy together basically making them reach an equilibrium. We got confirmation it was working and no one said it stopped working. After he got the synch he was then supposed to release the plasma blast which he only did it in space. He also did that quicker then he did on earth indicating the connection was still established as he was able to do it easier..

Originally posted by -K-M-

Holy assumptions, also why "was"? Did they say the synch stop anywhere? Nope.

Originally posted by -K-M-

Considering he wanted to disobey the Avengers and do it on Earth he was fully prepared to kill his friend even before bloodlust mode.

Originally posted by -K-M-

Oh yes, the tactic of having "no real answer and pretend you won" move

Originally posted by -K-M-

How do you think they would synch their anti-matter energies? Oh probably by using it would be by guess. He had full intent on doing it and did the "connection" and dissipation far quicker in space then he did on earth.

Blue Marvel wins

I think we should leave our discussion as that. We're not going to change each other's opinions and just repeating over selves

Originally posted by -K-M-
I think we should leave our discussion as that. We're not going to change each other's opinions and just repeating over selves

Yeah yesterday I was on the phone too so missed reading some stuff as had to zoom in and out constantly. Then when I was typing a pop up for a game came up and since I was typing accidently clicked it and lost all my text