IMO he hasn't done enough. In Blackest Night we have one description of him as "probably giving Kara a run for her money". Kinda gives an idea of where his tierwise.
IMO he hasn't done enough. In Blackest Night we have one description of him as "probably giving Kara a run for her money". Kinda gives an idea of where his tierwise.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17Again, statements do not supersede feats. We've seen what CS can do on several occasions--he's a legit top-tier.
IMO he hasn't done enough. In Blackest Night we have one description of him as "probably giving Kara a run for her money". Kinda gives an idea of where his tierwise.
More proof can be seen here, when he was going toe-to-toe with Grundy:
http://i.imgur.com/N2MbIoR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1zdxqs6.jpg
(as the narrative explains, CS was having fun fighting/punching Grundy.)
Also, CS losing to E2/BL Supes is certainly not a poor showing, given that he was an WAY above a top-tier:
http://i.imgur.com/m8JUKs2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Sbu4EYZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/t7rtvZi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tUPcocc.jpg
(reposted because the quality of your scan was horrid.) 😛
Originally posted by Galan007
Again, statements do not supersede feats. We've seen what CS can do on several occasions--he's a legit top-tier.More proof can be seen here, when he was going toe-to-toe with Grundy:
http://i.imgur.com/N2MbIoR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1zdxqs6.jpg
(as the narrative explains, CS was having fun fighting/punching Grundy.)Also, CS losing to E2/BL Supes is certainly not a poor showing, given that he was an WAY above a top-tier:
http://i.imgur.com/m8JUKs2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Sbu4EYZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/t7rtvZi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tUPcocc.jpg
(reposted because the quality of your scan was horrid.) 😛
He he he.. You're right it was horrid. Wasn't mine.. Found it from comicvine....
Originally posted by Galan007
Again, statements do not supersede feats. We've seen what CS can do on several occasions--he's a legit top-tier.More proof can be seen here, when he was going toe-to-toe with Grundy:
http://i.imgur.com/N2MbIoR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1zdxqs6.jpg
(as the narrative explains, CS was having fun fighting/punching Grundy.)Also, CS losing to E2/BL Supes is certainly not a poor showing, given that he was an WAY above a top-tier:
http://i.imgur.com/m8JUKs2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Sbu4EYZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/t7rtvZi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tUPcocc.jpg
(reposted because the quality of your scan was horrid.) 😛
Trading blows equally with Grundy isn't a bad showing but it doesn't exactly support him beating Blue Marvel either imo.
Again, while not a necessarily bad showing, being casually back handed away seriously hurts some of the argument's in regards to Citizen Steel that I've seen on this board. The way people have said he'd handle elites like Thor/Hulk/Superman etc. he'd have to at least be on the level of Black Lantern Kal-L who casually back hands him away.
Was Citizen Steel seen again? Do we see him trying to get back to his feet at some point or something? I want to know if he was knocked out, knocked away for plot convince etc?
Also, my god, for such a powerful and experienced team, the JSA has been subject to some horrible ninja syndrome treatment.
Why is Kal-L way above Herald level? The way he beat up Power Girl does suggest a noticeable strength advantage (Putting him above Herald level) but not WAY above. I realize this is me being anal about the thing, I'm just curious if he did anything else? I remember he had a fight with Superboy and Superman but I've completely forgotten how that went so I may be misremembering.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Trading blows equally with Grundy isn't a bad showing but when you're arguing that he not only beats, no stomps, a high end being like Blue Marvel, it certainly doesn't help. 😬Again, while not a necessarily bad showing, being casually being back handed away doesn't help some of the argument's here when to stomp Blue Marvel, Citizen Steel would at the very least need to be at the level of Black Lantern Kal-L who casually back hands him away.
Was Citizen Steel seen again? Do we see him trying to get back to his feet at some point or something? I want to know if he was knocked out, knocked away for plot convince etc?
Also, my god, for such a powerful and experienced team, the JSA has been subject to some horrible ninja syndrome treatment.
Why is Kal-L way above Herald level? The way he beat up Power Girl does suggest a noticeable strength advantage (Putting him above Herald level) but not WAY above. I realize this is me being anal about the thing, I'm just curious if he did anything else? I remember he had a fight with Superboy and Superman but I've completely forgotten how that went so I may be misremembering.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He also had a short, but pretty good showing against Hercules in comparison to Kal -El around the time of his introduction.. Then again we know how intros tend to be..
Trading blows evenly with Hercules isn't supporting the idea that he's above Herald either when historically Diana has been on par or even beyond Hercules in strength from what I've read.
But can you post the scans? I've never seen this fight. What series are all of these JSA showings from? It feels like I missed a complete volume or something.
Also, re-quote my new edited post. 😛
Originally posted by Galan007
CS downed Gog with a scant two hits:In the same issue Gog tanked this:
The impressiveness of that feat cannot be overstated.
While pretty awesome and clearly intended to be impressive simply by the presentation of the feat (Taking off his shirt and going "ALL OUT"😉, again I want to note it is an impressive feat, it should be noted that Damage had just blown his body to hell:
Not sure if that made a huge or ANY difference or not but it may have so it should be noted. Notice that I said may, and did not, I repeat did NOT, downplay the feat (I want to avoid tears).
Still, this scene signifies how underpowered Jakeem's genie is average while on a team compared to what it should be. How the hell is it not blowing Gog to pieces? Why is it doing less damage then Lightning or Magog?
Just a funny observation.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Trading blows evenly with Hercules isn't supporting the idea that he's above Herald either when historically Diana has been on par or even beyond Hercules in strength from what I've read.But can you post the scans? I've never seen this fight. What series are all of these JSA showings from? It feels like I missed a complete volume or something.
Also, re-quote my new edited post. 😛
In regards to these showings, they're from JSA v3, jsa all-strs, BN jsa, as far as I know... Not sure about the Grundy scene though.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Trading blows evenly with Hercules isn't supporting the idea that he's above Herald either when historically Diana has been on par or even beyond Hercules in strength from what I've read.
Evenly? Hardly.
....
Originally posted by -K-M-
Kingdom Come Superman > Pre52 Superman
Originally posted by celeyhyga17That was the whole fight. Immediately afterward, CS left Grundy to the others and went on to save a woman trapped under rubble.
They don't. They do add to the overall picture however. How did that fight end (btw what issue #)? That adds a little, but looks a bit inconclusive.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusI'm not commenting on CS beating BM. I'm posting proof as to why CS should be regarded as a solid top-tier brick(which was previously in dispute.)
Trading blows equally with Grundy isn't a bad showing but it doesn't exactly support him beating Blue Marvel either imo.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusCS wasn't seen again through the remainder of the issue--as you say, he was removed for the sake of the plot. You can downplay BL Kal all you'd like(dunno if that's what you're meaning to do, but it sure seems like it), but he was definitively beyond the herald class by a substantial margin. Him defeating CS is not a low showing for CS by any means, nor does it change CS's top-tier status.
Again, while not a necessarily bad showing, being casually back handed away seriously hurts some of the argument's in regards to Citizen Steel that I've seen on this board. The way people have said he'd handle elites like Thor/Hulk/Superman etc. he'd have to at least be on the level of Black Lantern Kal-L who casually back hands him away.Was Citizen Steel seen again? Do we see him trying to get back to his feet at some point or something? I want to know if he was knocked out, knocked away for plot convince etc?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusIt doesn't. The reason the JSA couldn't topple Gog is because he was literally rooted to the earth:
Not sure if that made a huge or ANY difference or not
That's why their best efforts as a team were only sufficient to make Gog stagger a bit:
That being said, Damage blasting a few holes in Gog's person didn't make him any less rooted to the earth. Thus CS waltzing up and doing in a mere two punches what the cumulative JSA were unable to do, and topple Gog, is amazingly impressive:
Heck, the simple act of CS shredding his armor away like cheap tissue paper in the above scene is a fairly impressive strength feat in its own right, given that the armor has a tensile strength of over 280,000psi:
The overall tensile strength of the armor covering him is actually much greater than that. However, that is ultimately a pointless calc because CS never moves every square inch of his body at the same time. Although, the simple act of him walking would require him to exert several million psi of force. craycray.
Anyway, if the armor really does cut his strength in half, it means that he is able to slap Gog(the herald) away and contend with Grundy at half power... I'm fine with that, but a lot of people may not be. 🙂
Originally posted by Galan007idunno, i did the calculations in two different ways to find the equivalent amount of tons he's pushing with to equal that amount of psi (not overcome it mind you) and got the same result. the point is to show what he would be hauling in terms of weights compared to other strength feats since his skin armour is unique
The overall tensile strength of the armor covering him is actually much greater than that. However, that is ultimately a pointless calc because CS never moves every square inch of his body at the same time. Although, the simple act of him walking would require him to exert several million psi of force. craycray.Anyway, if the armor really does cut his strength in half, it means that he is able to slap Gog(the herald) away and contend with Grundy at half power... I'm fine with that, but a lot of people may not be. 🙂
