Galen Marek vs. Darth Nox

Originally posted by AncientPower
No I do not, I don't have Carthage's imbecilic logic that unless it's in a feat it's impossible. The Father and the Son's mental strength is heavily implied and undoubted. I don't need to be hand-held by feats alone to realise the obvious.

Starkiller is emotional, haunted and lacks the willpower to circumvent a very powerful sorcerer with mastery in the realm of TP attacks like Nox. Force power is of course a supplement to such a mental fight but not as important as the actual defenses required.

You start off so wonderfully.

As a suggestion, then: perhaps you shouldn't portray your argument as hinging on lack of feats but a particular vulnerability to telepathic influence this character may possess?

I'm so helpful.

But that said, your argument is "Starkiller lacks the willpower" to resist Nox. According to what?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Requiring constant effort and lengthy duration indicates willpower over Force power... How?

It's almost as if the two are... Like... Connected or something.

Is the point easier to digest for you if conveyed in sarcastically?

It's an inconsistently portrayed universe, no doubt.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You start off so wonderfully.

As a suggestion, then: perhaps you shouldn't portray your argument as hinging on lack of feats but a particular vulnerability to telepathic influence this character may possess?

I'm so helpful.

But that said, your argument is "Starkiller lacks the willpower" to resist Nox. According to what?

Thank you.

His personal vulnerabilities, psychological issues and his getting tooled by Vader's Dun Moch leave a lot to be desired for a start.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Starkiller was able to move a falling Star Destroyer, which has a mass of 892,000,000,000 Metric tons when fully loaded. Even if Starkiller moved the Destroyer at 1 meter per second, the amount of energy he used would hit with a force roughly equal to that of a 107 Kiloton bomb. The nuke used to bomb Hiroshima was only 21 Kilotons I believe. Nox gets PASTED

I'm sorry to interrupt the hilarity going on here, but I need to put that into perspective.

Starkiller was pulling the Star Destroyer towards the ground. The Star Destroyer "hovered" in the atmosphere, naturally pulled towards the ground by gravitation and doing nothing but perhabs "countering" that effect with its own engines. So it was, very likely, in "balance" between gravitation and its own trust. Starkiller does just influence that balance with his own power. How is that impressive at all?

It's like pushing an heavy object suspended mid-air on a rope. Even if you could never, ever move that object around when it was on the ground, you could do it in that very situation with relative ease, because there would be next to no resistance coming from the mass of the object. If the mass of the object can be left out of the equation, then every bit of force applied on the object will result in acceleration.

That he is incapable of actually handling the weight of the Star Destroyer is quite obvious, given that he can't stop its movements, once he brought it down to the ground.

Huh? No, the Star Destroyer was already falling. All he did was direct it's movement. It's engines weren't doing shit.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Huh? No, the Star Destroyer was already falling. All he did was direct it's movement. It's engines weren't doing shit.

Hmm. Was it?

After rewatching the cutscene following the "fight", it appears as if he is just slamming the front of it down to make it impact, then slams the back down and then miserably fails to actually stop the thing. He doesn't even slow the advance of the thing on the ground.

Doesn't look too impressive...

He pushed something that has a mass of 892 billion Metric Tons :I Again, even if here barely moved it by a meter the amount of energy required to move the starship 1 meter per second would require kinetic energy that is equal to a massive atomic bomb.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Science/Relativity.html

Input the values I gave in the calculator. Also maybe the opponents that Starkiller struggled with are just that powerful? Finally, Hord bringing down a ship similar to a Hammerhead cruiser had its own calculation to it, it was roughly 3 times more powerful than Marek's if you believe he only moved it 1 meter. In reality the Star Destroyer was falling at Hypersonic speeds, so Moving that much mass plus with that amount of speed it was packing would raise the figure by many orders of magnitudes. SK SOLOS TOR.

AncientPower, I was going to ask you which sorcery feats would be effective in combat against the likes of Marek, but seeing as how you are regarding Nai based on his argument for Kun, I don't imagine I'd get the answer. Bringing up Kun's debunked feat against Luke isn't helping your case here. Instead of going in an endless circle, answer Cart's question. Don't pull a Nai. I've asked him repeatedly for any offensive sorcery attacks other than blasts for Kun, and kept being redirected to that Luke feat (which had Luke already down via a lightning attack prior) and got no where. Cart is right, the logic you're using is a no limit fallacy. Just because one is a sorcerer doesn't mean they can do just anything, or beat anyone who isn't. Elaboration is needed, and if you're doing strictly feats, then from what is being presented, Starkiller blows her apart. Bringing up Vader and the others whom SK struggled with isn't helping your case at all since they aren't Nox. You need a different approach. You're expecting Cart to accept everything you say while dismissing everything he says.

Despite all of those inner demons you presented, Starkiller turned down Palpatine and Vader's offer, while continuing to draw heavily on the dark side, and not lose himself to it. It's almost as if he had an extraordinary willpower or something.

Darth Nox has debilitating and physically corrupting spells she can use on him to temporarily cripple him. She also has advanced stealth and teleportstion feats. She can heal herself or drain Marek at her own will. Her Force defenses have been strong enough to near effortlessly ward off the attacks of very strong Sith spirits and the likes of Zash and Thanaton.

Darth Nox a long time before her prime has killed Darth Zash with 'ease' despite Zash having been protected by Force resistant rituals.

Darth Nox has dominated the minds of a group of highly trained Sith assassins with apparent ease, demonstrating her 'madness' discipline mastery.

Nox 'destroyed' the 'supremely powerful' Darth Thanaton. Noting of course that Thanaton as Teneb Kel was so powerful that the Emperor personally appointed him to kill Exal Kressh.

Teneb Kel was strong enough that he killed a Gargantuan with Force Lightning despite being near death. He also threw around car sized pieces of starship junk with ease and formed a massive bridge of junk metal with tk in the vacuum of space, maintained that tk and withstood the vacuum of space as he moved across it. Teneb Kel was very powerful, decades before his prime as Darth Thanaton.

As Darth Thanaton he could kill Nox and Ashara Zavros with one Sith spell, all that saved Nox were the ghosts themselves. He was capable of withstanding the massive energy explosion that Nox unleashed. He later summoned a Bubble too powerful to be broken into. He has also of course summoned an FLS strong enough to rip chunks out of the Dark Council chamber and make Nox kneel. Nox again overcomes this with her spirits and proceeds to dominate him in return.

Darth Thanaton is not some peon, he's clearly very powerful and has feats to back them up. Darth Nox 'destroyed' him with the 'overwhelming power' of her spirits. A very impressive feat being desperately marginalised.

Originally posted by AncientPower
As Darth Thanaton he could kill Nox and Ashara Zavros with one Sith spell, all that saved Nox were the ghosts themselves.

If you're referring to the confrontation at the start of Act 2, Ashara wasn't there. That was before they even went to Taris.

If you aren't, proof please. I would have put that in my thread.

He has also of course summoned an FLS strong enough to rip chunks out of the Dark Council chamber and make Nox kneel.

Erm. What? Really, what? Neither of those things happened. :/

Ah yes it was Khem Val.

Thanaton summons an FLS upon Nox, debris can be seen twirling in the vortex and Nox is sent reeling.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Ah yes it was Khem Val.

Glad we agree.

Thanaton summons an FLS upon Nox, debris can be seen twirling in the vortex and Nox is sent reeling.

Far cry from your previous statement. There may have been some debris, but it's nothing substantial, and Nox certainly did not kneel. He barely even stepped back.

It is not a far cry, i called it debris which is clearly coming from the chamber floor, which is also cracked. Also Nox is sent reeling by the attack.

Glad we agree.

Originally posted by AncientPower
It is not a far cry, i called it debris which is clearly coming from the chamber floor, which is also cracked. Also Nox is sent reeling by the attack.

Glad we agree.

Your previous statement was that he made Nox kneel. You have since backpedaled to this more reasonable stance when you were called out on it. Reeling (as you seem to call it) is a pretty far cry from being dominated to the point of kneeling. So regardless of the subjective definition of what actually happened, your original statement has been smashed and dashed.

I'll just go ahead and accept your concession on it.

Aurb tapping into his inner cruelty rn

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Aurb tapping into his inner cruelty rn

I think hanging out with certain peeps has affected me, lol 😛

Your passive aggressive tone is entirely unwarranted. If you'd been on KMC in any place else than Star Wars you'd know 'kneel' is a common term for subdue. Which is exactly what happened FYI. If you so desperately require a cheap illusional victory out of nothing but terminology then please go ahead but frankly I find your splitting hairs to be erroneous and self-humiliating.

Very good.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Your passive aggressive tone is entirely unwarranted. If you'd been on KMC in any place else than Star Wars you'd know 'kneel' is a common term for subdue. Which is exactly what happened FYI. If you so desperately require a cheap illusional victory out of nothing but terminology then please go ahead but frankly I find your splitting hairs to be erroneous and self-humiliating.

Subdue definition courtesy of Google:

overcome, quieten, or bring under control (a feeling or person).
"she managed to subdue an instinct to applaud"
synonyms: conquer, defeat, vanquish, overcome, overwhelm, crush, quash, beat, trounce, subjugate, suppress, bring someone to their knees;

I underlined the most interesting part. Isn't it fascinating? The definition of subdue, and its synonyms, prove you pretty wrong.

Since we both know you're just making excuses, do you have any way to explain this away? Maybe you meant something else?