Hawkman not know for going against overwhelming odds and spider-mans skill being compared to one of the best fighters of the dcu with hundreds of years of experience? Errrr?
Originally posted by -K-M-
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[B]Battles
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Hawkman #47 [Vol.4]: Gordanian Army (Hall)
During the Rann/Thanagar War, Hawkman steps up and takes on a whole army of Gordanians which had over a thousand soliders. Well he beats them....and with ease.1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-003.jpg
2. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-004.jpg
3. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-005.jpg
4. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-006.jpg
5. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-007.jpg
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I wouldn't really give Hawkman any edge in all around skill. I'd give him the edge when it comes to weapons use and h2h but when it's hero vs hero it doesn't come down strictly to who has more h2h skill, its about who is better at the hero game, Spidey is close to the top of that hill and has beaten worse than hawkman, which is why I think its a fight that could go either way. Plus does hawkman have an answer for Spidey just spamming webbing?
Wait so you give him the nod having more skill with weapons and hand to hand (plus far more experienced), but still won't say he has an advantage in skill?
Just because their both heroes means little in an actual fight. On record hawkman will do whatever it takes to win wether it's to cut his opponents arm off, stab them in the chest, etc. spider-man can't make that claim. Hawkman won't pull his punches while there are many examples of spider-man has and will
Yes hawkman holds the advantage in weapons use and hand to hand, but how many times has Spider-Man man won fights without throwing a single punch? Hes smart enough to know to stay away from a close encounter, and can with the SS and him being faster on average. Add the webs and the playing field is alot more even. The superhero game im talking s basically, who is best at using their powers and skills to accomplish the most. Spidey is undoubtedly one of the best in that field.
You also know spider-man has a history of not doing well against skilled hand to hand fighters right? Even against vulture (who has one shot spider-man in the past) has troubles staying away from him. So this will not be easy for him in the least especially when hawkman is much faster, more skilled, more seasoned and has a healing factor too
Then factoring in weapons he has tech that can shut off someone's brain in one-shot(did it to aqua man and elongated man), has guns that can melt metal, mystical weapons, nth metal weapons which I could see cutting through the webbing. Could spider-man get the majority? Sure, but he has to go all out and not take hawkman lightly as hawkman will not extend the curtosy.
Spider-man's history varies from not doing too well against skilled characters to one-shot owning said skilled characters with zero efforts once he's done messing around. And he won't be messing around on a vs forum. Not to mention Spider-man's skills have been praised many times in the past including by skilled martial artists. And I'm talking long before the training with Shang Chi. And it's no secret that in comic books skills and experience do not always go side by side and 30+ year old martial artists often gets to walk all over warriors with thousand years worth of experience. And Hawkman never struck me as someone whose fighting skills are on the level that'd be overwhelming for Spider-man. Few people are on that level. Even if we talk classic Spider-man. More so current. Not after everyone he's had to fight in his long career.
Originally posted by SamZED
to one-shot owning said skilled characters with zero efforts
Do everything you want, just don't mention Matt/Parker in civies "fight". Both were (still are, just not as much after several unmaskings) obsessed about keeping their superhero identities secret and Matt was clearly hindered more; helpless blind man act, no equipment and all.
Originally posted by -K-M-Agreed. Pete is partially handicapped by his CIS but not too much tbh, after all he holds back all the time. Always. Even his bloodiest fights against mass murderers like Green Goblin whom he hates more than anyone he still holds back. Stated on-panel. Most of his insane feats were performed while holding back. Kind of like a street level Superman. Even SpOck held back once he realized what SM's body is capable off, right after he punched Scorpion's jaw clean off. He even commented that Parker must've been holding back all these years. A question - you know much more about HM, is it in his character for him to go for a kill when fighting a hero?
CIS is still allowed and no spider-man on average would not go for broke against hawkman right from the start. That's in character.Hawkman has skill and experience as noted. Look at wolverine, he is a skilled h2h fighter but he doesn't show it in his style. Doesn't mean he isn't.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTWI wasn't going to mention that fight.. but it actually fits too. Hindered? Matt more than Pete? He was the one who attacked him first, in mid-air, while flying out of a moving cab. Then got up like nothing happened and went for another attack. Some blind man act. He wanted to ko Pete ASAP but clearly not because he was worried about his secret ID but because he didn't want to risk giving Pete a chance to fight back, that much was made clear, while Pete was only reacting to Matt attacking him. I was actually going to mention Taskmaster, Bullseye, Batroc, Kingpin.. even IF was surprised by Pete's skills. Spider-man while holding back big time fought an upgraded bloodlusted Shang Chi and did fine. All that classic pre-training Pete.
Do everything you want, just don't mention Matt/Parker in civies "fight". Both were (still are, just not as much after several unmaskings) obsessed about keeping their superhero identities secret and Matt was clearly hindered more; helpless blind man act, no equipment and all.
Originally posted by SamZED
Agreed. Pete is partially handicapped by his CIS but not too much tbh, after all he holds back all the time. Always. Even his bloodiest fights against mass murderers like Green Goblin whom he hates more than anyone he still holds back. Most of his insane feats were performed while holding back. Stated on-panel. Kind of like a street level Superman. A question - you know much more about HM, is it in his character for him to go for a kill when fighting a hero?
Oh I know that's my point, he always holds back. I should post my spider-man collection (I like the character). Kill? Unlikely. But stab or cut off his leg or arm? Very likely. He has always been at odds with the JSA for his brutal tactics. This is pre 52 hawkman I'm talking about
Originally posted by StiltmanFTWDon't pick on words, point is he can own MAs of that level once he's done messing around. Kingpin, he was literally prolonging the pleasure, that what if while non-canon gave us a pretty good idea of what would happen if Pete was going for the kill. Taskmaster, he slapped him through the floor once TM pissed him off, poor guy barely got away with his legs intact.
Kingpin, Taskmaster... one-shot owned? When?[code]
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