Its a tough call, really. Malgus has better feats than most versions of Krayt, but Reborn Krayt is slightly faster, has an ability called Dark transfer which is essentially a OHKO move, and has speedblitzed Imperial knights, punched holes in Abeloth, and has shattered pillars with his lightning. He's slightly better than peak Malgus, but it would still be a close fight.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
His point stands actually. Sidious remains Vitiate's superior.
Sidious, as a mortal, cannot be realistically superior to Emperor Vitiate or even match him. An argument can be made in favor of Sidious as of DE only.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Wut.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I believe that fans should refrain from making these kind of judgments until verified in latest sources.Sidious, as a mortal, cannot be realistically superior to Emperor Vitiate or even match him. An argument can be made in favor of Sidious as of DE only.
A practitioner of the dark side is not necessarily a Sith; this rings true for Emperor Vitiate. He used the Sith identity to fulfill his objectives but his ultimate objective was to destroy everybody and transform himself in to an omnipotent godlike being.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
What? Vitiate works off his own power in fights. His immortality is irrelevant, because that does not come from his own power, and all the power gained from the first ritual is used to sustain it. This is why he wanted to perform a second one.
Not true, the ritual of Nathema vastly increased his power.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sidious, as a mortal, cannot be realistically superior to Emperor Vitiate or even match him. An argument can be made in favor of Sidious as of DE only.
If Revan had a shot at killing Vitiate, then I'm sure Sidious, who is Revan's superior in every way for all intents and purposes, can take Vitiate.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
What? Vitiate works off his own power in fights. His immortality is irrelevant, because that does not come from his own power, and all the power gained from the first ritual is used to sustain it. This is why he wanted to perform a second one.
I find the concept of Emperor Vitiate's corporeal immortality similar to that of the The Ones. The latter had access to powerful nexuses such as Font of Power and Pool of Knowledge to achieve corporeal immortality. Emperor Vitiate pulled off Nathema based sorcery to achieve the same.
In addition, Emperor Vitiate became more powerful in the aftermath of Nathema event and continued to increase in power with passage of time. This is something that even The Ones were not replicating since The Father was in decline by the time Anakin and his allies met him.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Okay, seriously, are we really still arguing that a man named the Sith Emperor is not a Sith? Seriously? He leads the Order and it's Empire. The nobility, which an emperor is, is composed almost entirely of Sith Lords, not just Dark Jedi, Sith. One's personal goals do not stop one from being a Sith. Wanting to kill everything does not stop one from being a Sith. If anything, wanting to be a god is the pinnacle of the Sith philosophy. [/B]
I am not sure if Sith have the tendency to stop caring about Sith ideals. Sith do crave power but not at the cost of annihilating everybody, they like to rule over the galaxy, they crave materialistic gains. Emperor Vitiate didn't care much about materialistic gains, not in the way you would expect him to. He may have welcomed galactic conquest but his ultimate plan was different, he wanted to become something else, something that was beyond the understanding of mortals.
Lord Scourge's reveals the Emperor's true goal for the war: to complete a Sith ritual that will grant him unlimited power and immortality by eradicating all life in the galaxy. (From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)
Nathema was just the beginning. In-fact, Emperor Vitiate attempted to conceal his true plans from his Sith followers because he knew that his enemies would multiply. He ended-up destroying an entire Dark Council once for this reason alone.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
That's interesting. You know who else was mortal? Revan.
"He saw both Revan’s triumph and defeat in the throne room; he saw variations of his own life and death played out over and over in every conceivable way, shape, and form."-SWTOR: RevanIf Revan had a shot at killing Vitiate, then I'm sure Sidious, who is Revan's superior in every way for all intents and purposes, can take Vitiate.
Also, Emperor Vitiate manifested himself in vessels/avatars, so his avatars can be struck down but he cannot be stopped in this manner. He will come back unless his essence is somehow contained. His scenario is similar to Abeloth.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I believe that fans should refrain from making these kind of judgments until verified in latest sources.
The TOR Encyclopedia calling Vitiate the "most powerful force user who ever existed," and "history's most powerful darkside master," means he was the most powerful up to that point in galactic history. Just because the TOR Encyclopedia was published more recently than the sources on Palpatine, doesn't automatically discount or retcon what's already been said about him. Palpatine is still listed as the most powerful darkside master ever, as of ROTS.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Emperor Vitiate's immortality is an important matter because it increased his safeguard against external threats.
I find the concept of Emperor Vitiate's corporeal immortality similar to that of the The Ones. The latter had access to powerful nexuses such as Font of Power and Pool of Knowledge to achieve corporeal immortality. Emperor Vitiate pulled off Nathema based sorcery to achieve the same.In addition, Emperor Vitiate became more powerful in the aftermath of Nathema event and continued to increase in power with passage of time. This is something that even The Ones were not replicating since The Father was in decline by the time Anakin and his allies met him.
This is a tricky situation, he might be perceived as a Sith but he isn't in practice or in mindset. Emperor Vitiate did reconstitute Sith Empire after the disaster of Great Hyperspace War but this wasn't his ultimate plan. He didn't care about preservation of Sith, he cared only about himself.
I am not sure if Sith have the tendency to stop caring about Sith ideals. Sith do crave power but not at the cost of annihilating everybody, they like to rule over the galaxy, they crave materialistic gains. Emperor Vitiate didn't care much about materialistic gains, not in the way you would expect him to. He may have welcomed galactic conquest but his ultimate plan was different, he wanted to become something else, something that was beyond the understanding of mortals.
Lord Scourge's reveals the Emperor's true goal for the war: to complete a Sith ritual that will grant him unlimited power and immortality by eradicating all life in the galaxy. (From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)Nathema was just the beginning. In-fact, Emperor Vitiate attempted to conceal his true plans from his Sith followers because he knew that his enemies would multiply. He ended-up destroying an entire Dark Council once for this reason alone.
My point is about strength. Of-course, Emperor Vitiate can be struck down with a lightsaber but it is (realistically) impossible for any mortal to match him in power/strength.
Also, Emperor Vitiate manifested himself in vessels/avatars, so his avatars can be struck down but he cannot be stopped in this manner. He will come back unless his essence is somehow contained. His scenario is similar to Abeloth.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
The TOR Encyclopedia calling Vitiate the "most powerful force user who ever existed," and "history's most powerful darkside master," means he was the most powerful up to that point in galactic history. Just because the TOR Encyclopedia was published more recently than the sources on Palpatine, doesn't automatically discount or retcon what's already been said about him. Palpatine is still listed as the most powerful darkside master ever, as of ROTS.
Palpatine was originally imagined as the most powerful practitioner of the dark prior to introduction to any of the aforementioned super-strong Force-users. It now remains to be seen that how he fits in the re-imagined world of Star Wars. So yes, Palpatine's position requires re-evaluation. Even if a source comes up suggesting that Palpatine have been strongest practitioner of the dark side or Sith, this still doesn't resolves the debate because it is not necessary that BioWare or some others take this declaration at face value. Some authors have the tendency to wank Palpatine irrespective of other developments in the mythos (Daniel Wallace is one such author) and no official consensus exists on these matters. Eventually this comes down to the perception of the fans as well.
In the nutshell, these matters aren't so black and white.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not really. He wouldn't have Voices if such a thing were true.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That's because he wasn't immortal. It's not really the same thing.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That doesn't stop you from being a Sith either.Nothing to do with being Sith or it's ideology. The Sith Code makes no mention of caring about anything.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He still loses the fight if he cannot match Sidious' strength. Him being immortal has nothing to do with it. It's the amount of power he is able to wield. Immortality is just a symptom of said power. If he can't match Sidious, he will lose. Him being around afterwards is irrelevant.
Originally posted by carthage
He has no real feats off nexus to suggest he is that strong apart from blowing back jedi masters. Which Traya and Kun have done, and Krayt have done as well.SW Legend has a habit of quote spamming to compensate for the fact Vitshit is featless of nexus
Neither Mediraas nor Dromund Kaas are nexuses of the dark side. Only some places in Dromund Kaas are confirmed to be nexuses of the dark side. In addition, Emperor Vitiate easily overwhelmed a potent Jedi Strike Team onboard a space station once. You need to do some homework but you are not likely to due to your trollish habits.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Voices are also a mechanism to increase the safeguard against external threats
The Father is not immortal?
Tell me the difference between a Sith and a practitioner of the dark side.
Realistically and logically, Emperor Vitiate should be able to handle and defeat most individuals including Sidious.
Originally posted by carthage
Unless Vitiate can blitz the Jedi's best masters, summon wormholes, drain billions of souls, and defeat the most powerful Jedi.
The wormhole and drain feats happen after ROTS, so I don't think we can include them here (although it wasn't even a year after the events of ROTS that he started draining the immigrants of Byss).
Regardless, Sidious' combat-related feats even as of ROTS outstrip Vitiate's, such as force choking Dooku from a distance of light years, easily subduing both Maul and Savage simultaneously with TK alone, and blitzing through high level swordsmasters. Not to mention his lightning was potent enough to render Yoda unconscious with a single short blast, and later overwhelm the grandmaster's saber defense.
Palpatine really is OP'd in just about every area of combat, even as of ROTS.
Originally posted by carthage
Oh wait he hugged a lightsaber and died.
Lmao
You know, you're actually one of the most objective posters on this forum from what I see. I can't really spot any bias in you. You seem to call it as you see it, and lowball characters from all eras in a trollish manner, which is why most of the posters here get ticked off with you, but other than that, you do make some good points for the most part.
Joking aside though, I don't think Vitiate is that bad, otherwise I doubt he'd had last as long as he did. His feat of overpowering 4 jedi masters with force lightning is a testament to his power. I do, however, feel that most overhype him based on his off-screen feats, most of which we know little to nothing about.
BTW, what you said about LeGenD is true, which is why most here do not take him seriously. Saying that Vitiate > Sidious is a little overboard, but to say Vitiate is on par with the ones of Mortis is outright stupidity.
Realistically and logically, Emperor Vitiate should be able to handle and defeat most individuals including Sidious.
And you've reached that determination based on what? Killing a bunch of random no named darksiders, embracing a lightsaber to death, and getting his ass kicked in the one real combat situation he was in? Lol. When has Vitiate ever defeated someone close to his 'caliber' in a pure combat situation, sans prep, try never.
Stop pointing figures at others and focus on your own flaws and foolishness. I don't spam, I prefer to rely upon logic and accuracy.
Neither Mediraas nor Dromund Kaas are nexuses of the dark side. Only some places in Dromund Kaas are confirmed to be nexuses of the dark side. In addition, Emperor Vitiate easily overwhelmed a potent Jedi Strike Team onboard a space station once. You need to do some homework but you are not likely to due to your trollish habits.
🙄
Vitiate's presence turned Dromund Kaas into a darkside nexus. Whatever feats of sorcery he does would be amped, and again off nexus and sans prep the best he did was blow back four masters. That's it. He didn't blitz 4 Jedi masters, move fast enough to be called a phantom, collapse ceilings, or demonstrate any similar feat to Palpatine. Try again